patrick.net

I agree 100% with the premise that cars are overpriced and should've decreased dramatically in price for being over a century old in technology and innovation. People are totally oblivious to the actual price; because, all they see are the monthly payments. If the actual price or MSRP were explicitly advertised, there would be mass protests all over the streets for price gouging. The root cause if the high price is attributed to the unions, where in some cases employees make in excess of $60/hour. Most doctors and lawyers don't make that much! In the free market, companies compete for customers by producing high-quality products for the lowest prices. They win by getting the customer's business and customers win by buying something valuable at an affordable price. Nowadays, the system is totally broken. Companies are constantly cutting corners with inferior materials and are forced to line the pockets of their unionized employees, which do way more harm than good. Bottom line: cars are grossly overpriced and are thus because most people are completely oblivious or complacent to the status quo.

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Probably on purpose. Some type of fraud. I'm with you, and Patrick mentioned this once also, a very cheap car should be made. Only power brakes and power steering. Disc brakes, air bags and a proven 4 cylinder. Basic basic basic for under $10k. They'd sell faster than ice cubes in the Sahara. And they could probably get, what, 25-30 mpg? But, I don't think that's the plan for us plebes.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Bump…

Cars have become very expensive lately including used cars.

Explain….

Yes, it's a scam. Just about everything is.

The technology has improved such as fuel mileage and corrosion prevention. They also last a lot longer than cars made in the 1970s - 1990s. Hence, view the cost as far as total ownership costs for vehicles that last for at least 12 to 15 years.

The cheapest cars are $17,000 to $20,000.

https://www.motor1.com/features/631073/cheapest-cars-trucks-suvs-2023/

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Cars don't have to have 4 cylinders anymore, nor do they need a huge power battery.
They could make a car with a 15hp Small engine powering a generator and power the electric motors directly..
Cars don't have to be as fancy or as heavy as they are either.

ad, still seems like they could build an even cheaper car. If the government is going to be in the mandating business and they wanted to promote their greenie paradise, they could mandate a very cheap car with pretty good gas mileage. It would probably do a good job of getting the older cars off the road.

GNL says

ad, still seems like they could build an even cheaper car. If the government is going to be in the mandating business and they wanted to promote their greenie paradise, they could mandate a very cheap car with pretty good gas mileage. It would probably do a good job of getting the older cars off the road.

I read that new and small cars in India such as Tatas sell for less than $10,000. I suspect its just not financially attractive for GM, Ford, Honda, Nissan, etc. to sell that cheap of a car.

Ford, with its UAW workforce, makes most of its profit from trucks like the F 150 as well as its mid size to large SUVs.

Cheapest car I could find in the USA is around $17,000 MSRP for a Nissan. Look at it and it still has high-tech features compared to 25 to 30 years ago.

Each 5 year period brings new technology due to government regulations and/or consumer trends.

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I did look at the link. I thought the Ford pickup was interesting. And, for the first time, that I know of, I saw one of them on the road today.

GNL says

I did look at the link. I thought the Ford pickup was interesting. And, for the first time, that I know of, I saw one of them on the road today.

Yeah the Ford Maverick truck is made in Mexico and that explains why it is not expensive.

https://www.powernationtv.com/post/ford-maverick-least-american-truck

Our 2021 Honda CRV is about 73% made in USA with non union labor. Its more American made than the Ford Maverick.

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ad says

Yeah the Ford Maverick truck is made in Mexico and that explains why it is not expensive.

It's a hybrid and there's no gas only option. No go for me.

Tenpoundbass says

It's a hybrid and there's no gas only option. No go for me.

The hybrid version adds $1500. There is a gas only option for the Ford Maverick and out the door or net price is around $25,000.

https://shop.ford.com/configure/maverick/config/paint/Config%5B%7CFord%7CMaverick%7C2024%7C1%7C1.%7C...PNE...999.XL.%5D

Not very powerful this is the AWD option.

zachj says

The root cause if the high price is attributed to the unions, where in some cases employees make in excess of $60/hour.

Labor comprises only 5% of a car's cost these days.

Tenpoundbass says

Cars don't have to have 4 cylinders anymore, nor do they need a huge power battery.
They could make a car with a 15hp Small engine powering a generator and power the electric motors directly..
Cars don't have to be as fancy or as heavy as they are either.

Could and will are 2 different things. By not offering basic models, they are forcing people to buy more expensive and profitable models. Even something like the most base Chevy Trax has a ton of standard items that you don't need, like:

Automatic Emergency Braking
Forward Collision Alert
Front Pedestrian Braking
Following Distance Indicator
Lane Keep Assist with Lane Departure Warning

And the above mentioned items use sensors that are in the windshield / bumper / light assembly that are expensive and going to require programming if they ever need to be replaced.

You also don't need cruise control, traction control, air bags, Engine air filter life monitor, and you are better off with a regular manual parking brake than the standard electronic parking brake. I would also hate the capless fuel fill, which is also going to cause problems eventually, especially if you live someplace that does emissions testing. It also comes standard with power windows, which, I have also found to be extremely unreliable in the long run. The body colored door handles means that if you break a door handle, it's also not a cheap fix. I will also hate the Tire Pressure Monitoring System since that is also something else I don't need or want that's going to increase maintenance costs.

On a more expensive vehicle it's only going to have more of this extra crap that you don't need.