patrick.net

1. You pay them rent for land that they did not create.
2. They use that rent to drive up the cost of living for you.

Its a tipping point. If the rentier class gets too big, whereby there are too many people living off of rentier and unearned income, which is net-zero in terms of productivity society collapses. Often violently. I've grown tired of the oligarchs kicking around the rest. Its time to figure out how to regulate it without devolving into quasi socialism or communism. One thing would be a once house, more than one = massive taxes. also a 50M wealth cap. that would halt inflation dead.

Now why should the doctor or lawyer be paying 35% in income taxes while the billionaire heir pays 15% or less?

Well, those billionaires create jobs, right? Like a butler, a personal assistant, a secretary, a bodyguard. Paying them as little as they can possibly pay them.

Billionaires have a choice, they choose to keep an unreasonable amount of money locked up under their control. You could give away all of it but 100M and live like a king, but no, they need the billions.

Eat the rich.

I don't understand how the right wingers say
1) The national debt is a big problem
2) Don't worry about how much money the rich have. It doesn't affect you.

A lot of the debt is owed to social security, because the gov't has been borrowing from that account. Effectively, the social security surplus has allowed the gov't to cut taxes on wealthy and make up the difference by taxing poor people under the social security banner. That game is about up.

Most of the rest of the debt is money the gov't owns it's own people. That means that instead of taxing the money needed to operate, the govt decided to keep taxes lower, and borrow the money instead. Well, if you don't mind federal debt, then keep taxes low, and borrow the difference. If you want to manage the debt, then take your money in taxes instead of borrowing.

This is getting better and better. Only a few hours away and we have voices of putting cup of 50 Mil and one house per millionaire and the rest is up for confiscation and collectivization.

Graooga said, "What do you suggest then, they are 'filthy rich' lets take their "resources" and divide them equally? Who should decide what to divide? At what amount of their wealth you let them stay and at what you want them to share with the rest of us? Aren't Waltons entitled to passing on to their heirs the fruits of their labor they created? Who goes and who stays? What criteria would you use to decide?"

This is why I like your original question about what harm does it do. No. I've pointed out before that redistribution doesn't work because it depends on the accumulation of wealth (and the associated overhead waste) in the first place. Useful activities are those which ADD to the future of the environment and the species more than they consume in resources. Natural systems have predators and other negative feedback mechanisms. I'm just saying we need an effective feedback mechanism that ensures the sustainability of our activities (something REAL, not the Invisible Hand Job). People are stupid. No smarter than yeast in the immediate term and more consumptive of their own future in the long term. Most don't know about the coercion methods they are inundated with, and are addicted to consumption of resources without any effective moderating forces. The wealthy are just King Consumers. I'm probably more aware than anyone I've met (except maybe my wife) of the methods used against us, but I'm as bad if not worse, as anyone else when it comes to falling for these tricks. I've just been graced with the luxury of time to think about them.
Most decisions are made by people based on whether we have money in our wallets and see something shiny or tasty on the shelf. The difference between these two things is what determines whether we waste resources or not (and for a few, effective parental or experiential conditioning against our animal nature...something amplified in commerce and marketing).
I suggest a sales tax appropriate to all overhead costs, raised until the air and water are clean. People will adapt to the "hardship" of not having so much commerce (they would have more money because they wouldn't be as motivated to spend it, and they would receive full pay for their work without income taxes). Sales taxes are a lot less regressive than a dead planet. Even the rich know that they need safety mechanisms in their factories (now) because the guy operating the press needs fingers to push the buttons.
The rich should be the first to initiate a feedback system (listen to Buffet), IF they were actually as smart and intentional as we are told they are ("If you're so rich, why ain't you so smart.").
You seem to think the poor are at fault for being ignorant and addicted to consumption in a system of ignorance and coercion that the rich created to get rich.
Yeah...right....and the German citizens were all Jew-haters and murderers.
Write this down and mull it over: "People do stuff. They have reasons for doing stuff. IN THAT ORDER."
When the aggressive strains of human beings know this, they take advantage of it in myriad ways. Most often through a story of some "threat" to our property or security that MUST be fought in some expensive way, but only if we all (except them) work together to fight it. The most hilarious was GW telling people to go out and buy stuff to fight tare-ists (before that, it was Loyalists, then Rebs, then the Kaiser, then the Nazis, then the Commies). The multiple facets of that propaganda are just jaw-droppingly bold. WE have to go out and consume the planet before the TERRORISTS destroy us.
sigh.

Did you forget that every price you pay for everything you buy is directly determined by how much other people can pay?
That's fine, except when other people can pay a lot more than you without ever doing anything useful, perhaps by merely owning the very ground you live on.
Then you lose twice:
1. You pay them rent for land that they did not create.
2. They use that rent to drive up the cost of living for you.

No every price is determine by supply and demend. If supply and demend is not CONTROLLED by anybody and anything then prices should reach equilibrium.

Now let's talk about "CONTROLLED" factor. Government can control with their fiscal policy and/or regulations, big business or 'billionaires' can control by creating monopoly or oligopoly of course. Monopoly and oligopoly is prohibited by law and should be looked after and prosecuted. There is also laissez-faire where everything rebalances finally and finds its way through the natural forces and when no one intervenes.

Basically your billinaires have to stop purchasing and renting houses because there is going to be too many of them and the majority of your renters would stop renting at the price they cannot afford any longer and it won't be a good business for investors either.

If you took all the cash from the "rich". People would strip all the goods out of the stores sit at home and belch. Drink beer buy all the autos up and would not go to work anymore. The "rich" would be fucked and would have to start all over again. The guy in the "youtube" is a classic pretzel headed butt kisser. In fact the guy is a tube as far as I'm concerned

The guys clearly kissing someones. He's trying to get ahead clearly, ass backwards of course. Send him this graphic. He can put on his TV so his family can admire it.

People think usury is commonality and cooperation. They suck your blood dummy. Go once again to a Large theological library. You will find they left and entire paragraph off. Labor in exchange for food or anything other goods are fixed at a equal exchange. Bargaining for goods is NOT. They did just the opposite. Throw the "socialism" misnomer in there. You going for whats right however what they set in front of you is twisted. The prices are still fixed in socialism to exact labor once again with lending and loans also. See deep down inside you know and most everyone else does. That socialism is closer to that paragraph they left out. They love to play with that. Because once again it winds up at usury. Your struggling for parity. The parity of that missing paragraph in the book. Anything beyond that winds up in division once again. People think my insults are funny and daring. Really they aren't all that daring. These people are lowlifes and nothing more.

What your thinking is possibly. I want the same deal as a Hebrew would get. in that book. Otherwise I'm not doing business. Thats smart. Your prerogative too. I know if I don't like the deal. I don't take it. Your not a drone. Then again at this point maybe you are. Don't feel too bad however. They eat their own too, daily.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/TgAlZFX1Rvw

So the way it should work. You may need food. However your entitled to half of what you labored for. NOT in exchange for "other" goods, especially from who you owe. So once again your not trading labor for goods. They will fix the price then your really fucked. However your entitled to half of what your labor produced so you can extract yourself from having to be in any kind of debt.

Point is to you well you live in an "idiot nation". They are all exchanging labor for goods. Not half of what they produced. Thing you need to do is go look in the mirror and say. Do I really want to work for the lowlifes like the rest of the idiots? Why make a deal with swindler or thief to begin with is the point. Its not smart.

A simple example of how far they will go. Take a grocery cart pusher. You might say thats nice. Giving the poor guy a jobbie. I look at it and say fuck their even screwing that guy too.

So heres a question for the unlearned of course. How do you split half the goods brought on by the labor of a grocery cart pusher. Thats the point. Here's where it gets highly embarrasing for the people of the United States. I see a people embarrased daily. Embarrassed to be doing what they do even. See the deal is when you exchange labor for goods via coupon. They can have you doing anything including cleaning toilets, shining shoes, sweeping floors etc. Once again these people deal in hard goods and assets. The core emination for everything they do. The people in this country can't even get that close to it so they pretty much "buff the wood" for the debt merchants. You think hey its swift for a country thats weaponized going in for goodies. However the country owes and owes and owes. In reality its default to the debt merchants. They let you think otherwise. That you make out well with the booty gotten. However all that does is sooth a big strong warriors ego thats in hock up to his gun turrets cause he just "shot off" all his borrowed ammo and well your further in debt also.

Mick Russom says

You are a crap parent, then. Simple. Family suffers the more you gecko types try and pretend you can take over the world with anything other than luck or theft.

That's pretty funny. With that kind of astute reasoning and psychic abilities to divine my family/parenting skills from afar you ought to be able to put poor GG to shame in a week in the options pits.

I think we are doing OK;
house paid for
cars paid for
no revolving debt
plenty in the bank for later
1 kid graduating early from UC with honors, with just enough student loan debt so they will "need" to get a job - the other about to go national with their apparel designs. I hope they both make 10X what I did.

I only work now because I want too.

Perhaps you were talking to yourself? You might try working for a change - it's a great character builder..

nosimpsonsneedapply says

Mick Russom says
You are a crap parent, then. Simple. Family suffers the more you gecko types try and pretend you can take over the world with anything other than luck or theft.

I don't know this guy Mick but I know your intent. I had a guy that owed me on a mortgage. One of my rentals. One day he had me on one phone and a guy on another line from his work. He was going on and on about how much he made last week. Talking about 25k or 30k. All the time this guy is 3 months behind on making his payments to me. I'm sitting there going what the fuck is this bullshit with this stockbroker fuck anyway. Hes behind on me and he's behind on one of my other friends he had 2 rentals with. WTF. Christ I even thought hey fuck I'm tempted to. Then again. I've known to many guys like him. Your right that entire movie Wall Street was to get people interested. More importantly the swindel the stock market is took off not long after that movie. Its nothing but paper with no asset attached.

ArtimusMaxtor says

Its nothing but paper with no asset attached.

Nothing is worth any more than what we all (or at least one buyer and one seller) agree it is worth on any given moment in time. That holds true for paper or tulips or gold coins or brick and mortar.

Have house prices dropped 50% or more in some markets in the last 6 years?

Seems to me if a house was built in 2005 and sold in 2006 it would be the same house in 2012 - just selling @ half off.

YMMV of course.

Good question. Henry George would say you should not tax any capital (things created by people) but instead tax only land, which no one created.

But maybe a small tax on certain kinds of capital is also good, perhaps with an exemption up to the median amount of capital owned. So you'd pay no tax on the first $100K of asset or something like that.

Sales tax is a tax on transactions, not assets. Sales tax discourages commerce in the same way that income tax discourages work.

What you really want to discourage is non-productive rent-seeking.

George had some very good points.

I think, however, we must be careful to consider what productivity we gain by forking over too much to government. Government is, in its most basic form, nothing more than concentrated force. After all, everything government does can be done voluntarily through free association and liberty. What government provides is a stick of enforcement for a prevailing wisdom -- or a connected political body / beneficiary class. The latter tends to dominate government, keeping much of the benefits for itself, while placating the masses just barely enough to avoid being overthrown.

Not that I have a problem with George's land value tax ideas, though.