patrick.net

Here's one gun that's cool very accurate and bad ass looking. It's a clone of the CZ75, an outstanding piece.

rfsanders says

The left accepts the 2nd Amendment isn't going away and quits trying to outright ban guns.

I'm pretty sure everyone on the left has already done this. I haven't heard a politician speak in favor of an outright ban in 15 years or so. Speaking for myself, I've said earlier in the thread, I accept the right to keep and bear arms as a fact, although I don't accept its legitimacy.

The problem is the right won't take "yes" for an answer and keeps pushing further and further ("stand your ground", etc.). I think its because they see it as a political winner and want to keep the fight alive.

FunTime says

So I think the idea, for some, is that the level of tool that they want covered by law comes all the way from nuclear bombs, F16s(can a private citizen own a fighter jet?), down to hand guns, or guns designed to quickly kill dozens of people. What is the purpose of such a tool, if not mass murder?

Funtime,

Yes, they are intended for mass killing and/or murder. The government is made of the same human beings as those not in the government. Anything banned from the private citizen should also be banned from the government and vice versa. So if a general citizen can't have an F-16, neither should the government. The situation we have now is a situation of haves and have-nots.

bdrasin says

The problem is the right won't take "yes" for an answer and keeps pushing further and further ("stand your ground", etc.). I think its because they see it as a political winner and want to keep the fight alive.

Bullshit. NYC, DC, Chicago bans.... The Schumers of the world will push for as much as they can get:

“The basic complaint is that the Chuck Schumers of the world want to take away your guns,” Schumer said of the argument made by gun lobbies. “I think it would be smart for those of us who want rational gun control to make it know that that’s not true at all.”

....He also said average Americans don’t need an assault weapon to go hunting or protect themselves.

Governments around the world have stripped hundreds of millions of people their right to own weapons which have left them defenseless to be robbed, raped and murdered.

The best way to enslave the people is to disarm them.

Gun control is not about safety - its about the loss of FREEDOM.

The guns give you freedom argument is bogus. And if we grant the argument then clearly guns steal freedom from those that don't own guns.

And guns shoot 100,000 people each year(give or take a few thousand) So there is no way in hell guns make us safer.

And the gun people like to say that cars kill people also. Well granted. Cars do kill and raise your risk of horrible injury or death. This does not jusify ratcheting up the risk still higher with legal guns.

100% of all people will die.

100% or murderers killed people.

Since people all die anyways, why prosecute murderers? Speak up my liberal friend.

StillLooking says

The guns give you freedom argument is bogus

really? Then why does it take guns to remove freedom? (Ask your leader Mao for hints on this one)

Still - guns don't "give" you freedom, but taking them away is taking away the freedom to own them or defend yourself.

And why do politicians insist the people used to protect them are heavily armed? Why do they insist that firearms for protection for THEM is good, but that firearms for protection for YOU is bad? Could that be just another one of the trillions of liberal double standards"?

Bap33 says

a tool's use is limited to the USER's intent. You can drive a fucking nails with pistols, and you can kill millions of people with hammers

There's a difference in ease of use relative the physical and mental abilities of people. I get that some people will just become dead set on murder and agree the really difficult societal problem to solve is that one. It's a bummer that some guns make it so easy. Just go to your local store, load up, and walk into a crowded place and light it up. I appreciate the difficulty involved in killing a room of people with a hammer or having to concoct a chemical combination capable of leveling a government building in Oklahoma City and then having to carry said concoction in a way that could just mean a very successful suicide.

FunTime says

There's a difference in ease of use relative the physical and mental abilities of people.

yep, and one of the reasons that liberalism is called a mental disorder is their thought process that allows them to believe that criminals are too lazy to use a hammer, and that more laws controlling the tool used to murder will have an effect on behavior and people that exist outside of the law already. It's totally insane to think that removing a law following citzens weapons will effect a friggin criminal or his actions. Absolutly insane. Arming the citizens, and teaching weapons training in H.S., just like drivers training or cooking, will GREATLY reduce the number of criminal acts. And you show that you agree with me when you site a "successful suicide" being a deturant for a truck bomb made of fertilizer -- you admit that criminals don't normally want to die in their effort to murder others -- so, you admit that the idea of facing an armed target would detur most criminals. We have a breakthrough!!! Eureka!!

clambo says

I also don't know anyone who bought a piece at a gun show anyway.

I guess gun shows don't make any money then. They're just charities. ;-)

Leopold B Scotch says

plenty of licensed drivers exhibit a complete and total disregard of the rules anyway which kills exponentially more people than whack jobs each year

True! What's a bigger threat, a guy with a concealed handgun or a soccer-mom texting while driving her SUV?

Bap33 says

you admit that criminals don't normally want to die in their effort to murder others -- so, you admit that the idea of facing an armed target would detur most criminals.

I'm not sure why you took that as an admission. I've read every response to this thread and I think the part of what I wrote to which you're referring is actually a point I made.
Regardless, I don't understand what you wrote because you wrote the phrase " facing an armed target." My allusion to a criminal was meant to be one where the criminal makes their own bomb. I wouldn't say the target is armed. The weapon is just a lot more dangerous to the person trying to use it than an AK47 is to the person using it. I would just think more of society if, when reading about mass killings, if I could think, " Well that person was just determined as hell to do it and took a tough road getting there including having weapons that are more strictly registered."
Colorado is a heavily armed state. So what happened? I grew up there and don't remember a single event of determent. I do remember my cousin committing suicide with a pistol, a grade school friend shooting his sister, who survived, in the head, and numerous minor events of gun use against people and animals as a kid. I have family in Arizona and despite the suicide death of a brother, keep a house of various rifles and hand guns in a house with three kids. That resulted in a .44 revolver being fired in the house when a suspected prowler was on the property. Someone drilled a hole in the side of their house while they were gone and stole all their guns.
These are just anecdotes. They mean very little, but involve my family so are compelling to me. Still, I've never read a statistic supporting this idea that armed people reduces gun crime. Why doesn't it work in areas of concentrated gun use, like those with gang activity or heavy illegal drug trade?

Where I go shooting on the weekend.

http://www.samhouston.army.mil/bullistraining/TrainingSupport.asp

The problem with the theater shooting in Colorado wasn't too many guns in the theater. It was not enough guns in the theater. When all it takes is one guy with a gun to walk in and shoot 70 people and then freely walk out, you know you have a problem with too much gun control.

IMO, the Joker should have been killed within 15 seconds of walking into that theater and pointing a gun at an innocent victim. Unfortunately, he was the only guy around with a gun so he was allowed to take his time and slaughter all that he could with relative ease.

To solve the problem, we simply need to train more people to carry guns and be able to use them effectively.

Some have said that around 2,000,000 crimes/ year are prevented by guns... I find this hard to believe. (and if it were true, what does that say about even more crime potentially occuring in the US).

moldhaven says

The problem with the theater shooting in Colorado wasn't too many guns in the theater. It was not enough guns in the theater.

How do you know? I'd be surprised to find not one gun was in that theater. I get the idea it's very popular to carry concealed guns in Colorado, based on the friends I have who still live there.
It comes back to what many have said on this thread. Carrying a gun is only the beginning. You have to be skilled and willing to use it. So who's going to stand up with their .38 revolver and take a chance at firing a few shots at some guy who just walked in fully armored with the weapons used in that theater?

And if your counter point is, "Well, then people need to carry AK47s." Awesome society! I don't think that's how most of us think of the United States. That sounds more like some of the other countries mentioned in this thread or a few African countries run by overlords.

How do you know?

FunTime,

I haven't read any news reports that answer that question. I understand that theater chain in question has a rule against fire arms, so even if concealed carry (not sure about Colorado gun laws) were legal, guns are forbidden by the chain. The people who follow the rules and policies set by the business will be defenseless against someone who disregards those same policies. So full legalization of any type of guns won't help unless the businesses change their own policies.

taketheplunge says

guns are forbidden by the chain.

Ah, I hadn't thought about how free one could really be with a concealed weapon. I know sporting events and other events with a large number of people in attendance also check to make sure people aren't carrying guns. I was just thinking of the conversation I had with a friend who got his concealed weapon license. So there's obviously places where gun carrying is limited, even if one has legal permission to carry a gun.

I once shot AT a man who was playing Horse With No Name on a Ukulele. this was pretty recent ago. It was wonderful

jvolstad says

Where I go shooting on the weekend.

http://www.samhouston.army.mil/bullistraining/TrainingSupport.asp

Casual Friday at my shooting range. She's nailing clays.

American in Japan says

Some have said that around 2,000,000 crimes/ year are prevented by guns... I find this hard to believe. (and if it were true, what does that say about even more crime potentially occuring in the US).

How many more crimes would be commited if they KNEW there could be NO retaliation ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia
JESUS Patrick, Can you do something about that nudity ? Like watchin a train wreck. The more I look the more I wanna pull that trigger. My standards are low enough.

Funny thing.. try to look up Lance Thomas and you wont find much!
Guess the lefty press doesnt want to cover these stories...

He left 5 criminal gang bangers dead !

Real Gunfighter Lance Thomas on Justic Files

http://www.youtube.com/embed/pkWgp2abM2w

'Please Try To Remember Wonderful Things Guns Do For Us Every Day'

Smart words to live by for some!

Jewelry Vendor Shoots Robbers

http://www.youtube.com/embed/GmadBLAvnfw&feature=related

.
.
.Carjacker Killed By Gun Permit Holder
.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/_But23A9A0k&feature=related

TMAC54 says

JESUS Patrick, Can you do something about that nudity ? Like watchin a train wreck. The more I look the more I wanna pull that trigger. My standards are low enough.

Aww! It's just Nancy airing out the beef curtains. She don't bite. It's not like I asked Patrick to make it his new logo or anything. Although...

We are all GOD'S childen TMac

My latest favorite BTW. It's a tidy package.

JodyChunder says

It's a tidy package

WOOF!