patrick.net

Do you realize you have more typos, bad usage and grammar than any other poster here?

Between "world" and "but" above there is no comma.
Buy a copy of Skrunk and White.

robertoaribas says

I love my genesis...

WHich albums? Tuned out after we can't Dance.

(I am a land baron to, but even I think 12 houses might be pushing it ..)

Does anyone believe anything a Realtor says?

jvolstad says

anyone believe .... a Realtor ?...

A Realtor?

Maybe.

A Realtor®?, - never.

ptiemann says

Not bad. I was in a similar situation, by the way, in Coastal California.

who wants to live in California and pay loads of taxes for Feminists and Illegal Aliens?

woppa says

In ten years I would love to be in roberto's position. The problem is I have to contend with NYC prices, so for me having 12 mortgages plus my primary residence (which may actually be paid off by then) is probably impossible.

Pheonix now has a public transport system and the potential to compete with NYC for jobs.

Arizona has a lot going for it. The heat sucks in the summer, but 3/4 of the year the weather is perfect. Don't forget you can run evap coolers out here which are super cheap. Your A/C bill for the summer is typically lower than NYS. I would take year round weather in Phx over NYC any day. Arizona would be the ideal state if we weren't being invaded by Mexico. That's primarily why they come here: the gettins good.

clambo says

Do you realize you have more typos, bad usage and grammar than any other poster here?

Do you realize you come off as the most butthurt tard on this entire forum?

basically the story is with AZ is that it's a low-cost alternative to California, and thus has a tendency to absorb all the alternative political and cultural ideas. Thus Californians put it down and don't realize theyre just repeating propaganda.

It's actually cheaper to outsource to AZ than it is to India, but Californians insist India is better(because many many Indians live in CA and thankfully don't live in AZ). AZ is still a very American place, perhaps the most of any state.

Keep buying, houses are cheap down south, credit is as loose as ever, let the banks and renters allow you to retire comfortably some day. This is the world we live in, feeding and living off those who have less, it's just mother nature doing her thing, eat or be eaten.

in the Downtown Phoenix region, housing has actually appreciated.

robertoaribas says

reconditioning grout lines in tile

Hell! What're buying up as rentals? Unless Lincoln slept there, smash it all up and put in the roll out sheet stuff. You can be done in a fraction of the time and have enough hours left over for frozen yoghurt! Whether you are craving out for a regular breakfast or simply with a delightful montage of fruit, you would surely be amazed every time by the originality of the Tutti Frutti menu.

The Original Bankster says

AZ is still a very American place, perhaps the most of any state.

Real Americans complete with teabags as part of their attire, I am sure.

lostand confused says

Real Americans complete with teabags as part of their attire, I am sure.

And with psychopaths randomly shooting people.

No, I'm not talking about the Colorado thing, I'm talking about the incident of a year or two ago.

Hard for the market to come back when there are so many flippers still out there. Just yesterday I heard them advertising "flipping seminars" on the radio. It came off like a "get rich quick scheme" which I'm sure a lot of people went for.

However, congrats on your success Roberto. Hate the game, not the player.

Friend of mine, they bought about a dozen properties during the run up, I'm sure they are disappointed but it's no big thing, they are young and the homes will still get paid for in time, they just have to wait until the loans are paid down enough to flip them. After 20-30 years of renting, I'm sure the places will be fairly trashed over all, not to mention deterioration of some neighborhoods over time. The neighborhood I just left, three homes across from a house that turned into a rental all went up for sale, the renters did not pay the electric bill, instead running a generator out in the yard 24*7. They saw first hand what happens to the neighborhood.

bmwman91 says

Hey Roberto, where do you get the cash from to do this? Do you accumulate the rental income

Here is what people do if you want to use leverage to accelerate the process (warn you it's riskier though.) First, find all the CASH you can get to buy a few cheap foreclosures. After you've done with all the fixing jobs, ATM cash from the houses (you own) with equity loans. With that, go buy more houses with CASH in hand. Rinse and repeat. I personally do not prefer this way though.

robertoaribas says

Yes, just three weeks after home 11, ($80K, +$9K in remodel and appliances, hoa = 100, taxes = 800 a year, insurance = 750 a year, rented for $1100) which is now rented at the predicted amount.
This one was $85k, 3/2/2 car garage in 85201.

Housing price on the order of $80k for $1100 rent is a bit high for investment IMO (albeit good locations.) I wanted to buy a house around $40k to rent out $800-$900 but my wife wouldn't do it. We would probably wind up buying $20k houses to rent out $500-$600 in a not so good area. The yield is higher but the upside is lower and the risk is higher.

A guy I went to high school with went straight into loan brokering. He worked very hard at it. He later bought a small house in a then still relatively cheap part of the SFBA. I ran into him again a decade later. He now had the beginning of a RE empire. He had a few properties in CA and is buying an apartment complex in NV. That was in 2005. We lost touch for a while after that. I later found out he had leveraged himself horribly to buy the extra properties. The NV town he bought the complex in did not prosper. He now has well over a million in fully recourse loans. Even bankruptcy is not an option.

Clearly there is a right way and a wrong way to build one's empire. Good timing, prudence, hard work and a LOT of luck.

Roberto seems to have the first of the three, best of the fourth to you Roberto.

I don't understand why people pick on you. The reason to follow a housing blog is too be advised on the market so you can buy and sell better. I want to get more properties, cash flow with no mortgage. Keep working and saving and find smart deals. My question to you is: What are investor property tax rates in AZ?

Does anyone know what investment property tax rates are in AZ?
I have done the Internet search but haven't really found it out yet.

I have asked Robert before but he didn't respond. What's the tax rate, what is it!

@Roberto
congrats and ignore the haters

I thought you were a professor. When do you get time to do scout, invest, upgrade properties? or have your retired already? :-)

First of all, Roberto purposely picked a fight when he started this discussion. If he asks for it I don't think anyone should feel sorry for him when he gets it.

Secondly, I tend to kid around here just for a reaction but Arizona really is kind of a shithole.

Tucson is a cross between a trailer park and a nuclear waste dump. "Make sure you stop by the dessert museum!" is Tucson's equivalent of Phoenix's "But it's a dry heat." Although I will say that the aircraft graveyard is pretty impressive.

I was in Phoenix for a week and the lowest temperature was 113 degrees. The highest was 118. And yes that was just one week but no, the weather is not great there nine months out of the year. People plant two kinds of grass there every year because plant life can't even stand it.

I've been to both Phoenix and Tucscon more times than I care to remember. I thoroughly enjoyed a barbecue at Pinnacle Peak but I can't recommend vacationing or living there to anybody.

I was in Sedona and all the locals did was talk about what a shithole Phoenix was. Only in Arizona could Sedona be considered amazing. Some old women glue a few chili peppers together and call it art. Stop for lunch maybe if you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in the area but beyond that, there's almost nothing there.

And regarding clambo's grammar comments, I actually think they're pretty funny. And from Santa Cruz no less, the last great refuge of hippies, bums and various other 1960's rejects. I say clambo should continue to aggresively patrol these halls for grammar offenses.

Biff
(shaking things up)

Roberto used to take apart the permabull realtwhore drones who infested this place 6-7 years ago. That he was both an economics professor and a licensed realtor himself was a credibility that the bubble-faithful then fully welcomed (well..except that LIB/allah whack-a-mole).

I find it terribly amusing that now Roberto, myself, Peter P. and others are denounced simply because we did exactly what we said we were going to do, when we said we were going to do it. We all recognized the bubble, made tough life choices in order to avoid calamity, and then went on to profit from stupidity.

I have no apologies, nor should Roberto. If others want to make bubblesitting into a religion at this point, then that is their prerogative.

I think there is lots of anger here now that the 'bottom is in' and 09/10/11 (depending on region) appear to be the bottom in RE prices. (we might revist those bottoms, but probably not, the government hand in RE is now gigantic and that never shrinks - only gets larger)

I know in LA prices are up 100k from last year in the 'entry level SFR' category.

Thats a lot of money. More than anyone with a regular job could 'save' in 20 years without living like the unabomber.

I sold my homes in 05/06 after agonizing on the 'bubble blogs' and made bank, but I missed the bottom to buy back in which was last year. (current plan is try to buy in sept/oct during election uncertainty - we'll see how it goes)

Let me be the 472nd to join the lowly hoi polloi and denounce Randy H and by proxy Roberto as well. Yes, I am terribly jealous of your success. You are clearly a master of your universe and a force to be reckoned with, a man among mice, a philosopher among the dolts.

I greatly admire your refusal to buckle and apologize for your bold actions that simply drip with a foresight that is rare and worldly.

I denounce you. Be not terribly amused! Damn your calamity avoidance!

Alas, I know it is only my own self loathing that makes me jealous.

Either that or you sound like a fuckin' douche bag. Seriously, do you read your own shit?

Biff

PockyClipsNow says

I missed the bottom

I'm not so sure. I cannot forget not being able to sell my condo in the LA area for 10 years, neighbors did the jingle mail, etc and this was pre bubble.

Personally, I don't regret not buying any of the crap I have seen online or the few I went to see.

Jealous Bitter Renters are back in style. Next year if prices are up again we can expect more gloating owners/realtors here.

PockyClipsNow says

Thats a lot of money. More than anyone with a regular job could 'save' in 20 years without living like the unabomber.

Or like an "immigrant" lol

Roberto, thanks for the info, and congrats. The raw data is greatly appreciated. About 2% higher ROI than I can score up here in Portland, but I'd evaporate in that heat. I won't even go on a roof here if its over 80 degrees :)

Did you have to outbid or just got lucky? It's crazy up here these days, anything over 10% has multiple offers in on the first day.

Investor property tax rate is?

There is a lot of jealousy or something. It would be more annoying if not for the wonders of 'ignore'.

None of us claim to have timed the perfect bottom. I know with hindsight we should have held out selling in 2005 a year longer and that we could have found even better deals when we bought back in 2009 if we'd waited until summer of the following year.

The point is we had the conviction to do what we said we were going to try to do and it mostly worked out. The only "douche bags" that I see around here are armchair cowards hiding behind a shroud of anonymity while they jerk themselves to fantasies of future calamity in which they emerge from the ruins like an army of blind, post-apocalyptic economic warriors.

dunross,

I don't know why you have this axe to grind against OP ?

I have followed OP over zillow - and I think he has been pretty objective overall.

In his market (Phoenix area, AZ), he feels the bottom has been hit - and all signs point to that being true - only time can tell, if that is indeed true - but chances are, he is correct.

It is possible that the bottom has not been hit in other areas (I hope SF Bay area is one of those areas where the bottom is yet to be hit) - I have been sitting on the sidelines for last 4 year hoping for reasonable P/E ratios in the SF Bay area.

Anyways - I am keeping an open mind - not going to put blinders on - just because I desire the house prices to come down to reasonable levels. If there are greater fools in enough numbers, with sufficient purchasing power - there is not a goddam thing I can do about the inflated prices.

What is your special grout trick? Also, what is included in the property management? Is it feasible for someone who lives across the country to invest in cheap rental properties like you and just pay a management company or would you advise against that?

Are taxes really just 1 % of purchase price ? I thought that was owner occupied rate?

mbSFBay says

I don't know why you have this axe to grind against OP ?

I simply don't like roberto because he is a bigot and a hypocrite. He really is a sore thumb on this forum, bragging about his little achievements and insulting everyone who doesn't agree with him. Just look at the title of this post which should already tell you what a boisterous gloat he is. But why I really don't like him, is because he is here with an agenda, to brainwash you and to sway you into making the worst decision of your lifetime.

Randy H says

The only "douche bags" that I see around here are armchair cowards hiding behind a shroud of anonymity while they jerk themselves to fantasies of future calamity in which they emerge from the ruins like an army of blind, post-apocalyptic economic warriors.

No it's just we have a little more patience than most people like you, and we are willing to wait until prices reach fundamental valuations. We understand that no amount of propping up by the gov't can really work, and, eventually, prices will come down and be as ridiculously cheap as they were ridiculously expensive at the peak. In any bubble, there are not too many like us, and since we are the most patient, and the few, we should, naturally, be rewarded.

permanent_marker says

I thought you were a professor. When do you get time to do scout, invest, upgrade properties?

maybe you will find out on http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/

dunnross says

In any bubble, there are not too many like us, and since we are the most patient, and the few, we should, naturally, be rewarded.

dunross,

You're absolutely correct that there are not too many people like you. You sold your house in 2006, and you used the proceed to buy gold. With both right moves, paying $3,000/month in rent is not a big deal to you. Since you believe the housing market will continue to crash, give me something to invest in should I liquidate all of my RE holdings now.

So dunross, tell us where should we invest our money in right now. I admire your success and would love to follow your footsteps. Now tell me, where should I invest my money now? :0)

E-man says

dunnross says

In any bubble, there are not too many like us, and since we are the most patient, and the few, we should, naturally, be rewarded.

dunross,

You're absolutely correct that there are not too many people like you. You sold your house in 2006, and you used the proceed to buy gold. With both right moves, paying $3,000/month in rent is not a big deal to you. Since you believe the housing market will continue to crash, give me something to invest in should I liquidate all of my RE holdings now.

So dunross, tell us where should we invest our money in right now. I admire your success and would love to follow your footsteps. Now tell me, where should I invest my money now? :0)

Learn from your victory. Prosper from your failure.

Silver.