patrick.net

Peter P says

As with all metaphysical questions, this is unknowable.

I disagree. Many mathematical questions were at one time consider metaphysical until they were answered. The same for physics, chemistry, and biology.

Essentially, the question of determinism is one of physics and should be, in principle, knowable.

lostand confused says

It is concept defined by our experiences.

Irrelevant. The concept of freedom is still well-defined and we can make meaningful statements like a prisoner has far fewer freedoms than an ordinary citizen. We can even precisely talk about which freedoms the prisoner lacks. We cannot do the same for "free will".

Whether or not your experience affects your perception of reality does not change the nature of reality itself. Degrees of freedom exist whether or not the individual is aware of them. Such degrees can be measured, recorded, and increased or decreased. Freedom is clearly an objectionable, verifiable, and quantifiable state.

Free will is none of these things. I have yet to hear a single, clear definition of free will or any criteria by which I can objectively discern an entity that "has free will" from one that doesn't.

For example, by what criteria will I classify the following objects as possessing free will or not: homo sapien, homo erectus, australopithecus africanes, bonobo chimpanzee, canine, lizard, ant, worm, starfish, tulip, amoeba, bacteria, virus, stable vesicles formed by fatty acid chains that consume nearby free fatty acids?

Surely an amoeba is a sophisticated decision making system on par with even modern supercomputers. Does it have free will? It's not important that I know the answer to that question, but it is important that I have a criteria for answering that question. Otherwise, the term free will is meaningless.

uomo_senza_nome says

Greatest I am says

Begin your next reply to me with a Y.

This is a stupid experiment because your reply will create an inherent bias on my brain state (one way or the other).

The brain state comes first, not the will.

I may create a bias, as all choices that you have to make in life do, but that does not negate the efficacy of the test.

BTW, whose free will decided to reply at all?

If not yours, then whose will was it?

My point is made I think.
We are the only ones we can blame or praise for our free will choices. Just as your will is responsible for your reply.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

My point is made I think.

"Though I don't think," added Deep Thought. "that you're going to like it."
"Doesn't matter!" said Phouchg. "We must know it! Now!"
"Now?" inquired Deep Thought.
"Yes! Now..."
"All right," said the computer, and settled into silence again. The two men fidgeted. The tension was unbearable.
"You're really not going to like it," observed Deep Thought.
"Tell us!"
"All right," said Deep Thought. "The Answer to the Great Question..."
"Yes..!"
"Of Life, the Universe and Everything..." said Deep Thought.
"Yes...!"
"Is..." said Deep Thought, and paused.
"Yes...!"
"Is..."
"Yes...!!!...?"
"Forty-two," said Deep Thought, with infinite majesty and calm.

uomo_senza_nome says

An analogy: brain is the river bed and thought is the stream flowing through it -- the thought is constrained by the river bed, but thought can alter the river bed as well.

"Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs. I am haunted by waters."

- from: "A River Runs Through It"