patrick.net

Bigsby says

so real house prices are rather important, wouldn't you say?

I think you were going in the right direction with "affordability", I just don't see your conclusion as being self evident. It just takes one look at the purchase mortgage index to see that IMO.

Goran_K says

I think you were going in the right direction with "affordability", I just don't see your conclusion as being self evident. It just takes one look at the purchase mortgage index to see that IMO.

I'm quite sure there are many factors at play, but if or when the economy picks up, the fact that nationally houses seem pretty affordable would seem to point to a stabilization or potential moderate increase in house prices. Now it may well be different in certain areas because quite clearly they don't have the same levels of affordability - for most posters on here for example, but the BA isn't the whole country. And even then, if the economy picks up generally, then there isn't going to be much downward pressure on prices in the BA.

When houses cost $25k-$50k in the 1950s... Yearly household wages were like $5000 a year.. Now they are 10x that and home prices are about 10x too... Pretty simple math.

. The big problem is that $5000 household income in the 50s was earned by the man and wife had leisure time to raise the kids. Now it takes two incomes which makes things unaffordable if you factor in childcare.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Bigsby says

houses seem pretty affordable

According to what? Because a lying realtor like you says so?

The truth is housing prices are still at the grossly inflated levels of 2004. And considering prices are rolling back to early 1990's levels, we have a long way to go yet.

!

We are already at mid 1990s prices in terms of monthly nut. All due to interest rates being 3% vs 8% in the 90s. Do some math for a change

Darrell In Phoenix says

The truth is housing prices are still at the grossly inflated levels of 2004. And considering prices are rolling back to early 1990's levels, we have a long way to go yet.

In nominal terms, and according to the graph YOU posted, they are at 2003 levels. But then when you draw a line on a graph to show 2004, you aren't actually supposed to stick it in the middle of 2003. Not unless you are Dullell of course.

BoomAndBustCycle says

When houses cost $25k-$50k in the 1950s... Yearly household wages were like $5000 a year.. Now they are 10x that and home prices are about 10x too... Pretty simple math.

. The big problem is that $5000 household income in the 50s was earned by the man and wife had leisure time to raise the kids. Now it takes two incomes which makes things unaffordable if you factor in childcare.

It is not pretty simple math per your calculations because your math doesn't add up in the real world. Yearly incomes were not only $5000. a year for someone in a 50K house in the 1950s (which for your information a 50K house in the 1950s is about 1.5M or more today in some areas, in LA a 25K house in the 1950s some think they are getting 1M for today, that is far above and beyond ten times your $5000. a year income and far above and beyond household income today which makes them grossly overpriced and not sustainable to the dollar.)

What you also ignore is the cost of goods and services including gas, electric, food, insurance, clothing, etc. that were all a fraction of what they are now. When you factor all that in including income which is way less than it was then yet everything is ten times or more as much. There is NO value to the dollar and there is no way to justify it with the lame excuse of inflation. If you think everything today is ten times the price and so is income? You are on fantasy island.

Reader says

What you also ignore is the cost of gas/electric/food etc that was a fraction of what it is now.

A fraction? What were gas prices adjusted for inflation (and how many miles to a gallon were the cars getting)? The cost of cars? What food are you comparing? Clothes? ...

BoomAndBustCycle says

Darrell In Phoenix says

Bigsby says

houses seem pretty affordable

According to what? Because a lying realtor like you says so?

The truth is housing prices are still at the grossly inflated levels of 2004. And considering prices are rolling back to early 1990's levels, we have a long way to go yet.

!

We are already at mid 1990s prices in terms of monthly nut. All due to interest rates being 3% vs 8% in the 90s. Do some math for a change

So in other words if you saw a payment of 500. a month on a 3M dump you would by it? You better do some math in the real cost of financing.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Gas was 1.75/gal just 3 years ago.

Well?

There is no sense talking to some of these people because they clearly bit the bullet have buyers remorse and will do and say anything to justify their stupidity. Let's be thankful there are a handful of us that avoided this lunacy and aren't debt slaves. My stuff is paid cash. I don't have to justify a God damn thing to myself.

Reader says

106   Wed, 19 Sep 2012 at 4:23 am   SHARE   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Delete  
Darrell In Phoenix says

Gas was 1.75/gal just 3 years ago.

Well?

There is no sense talking to some of these people because they clearlly bit the bullet have buyers remorse and will do and say anything to justify their stupidity. Let's be thankful there are a handful of us that avoided this lunacy and aren't debt slaves. My stuff is paid cash. I have to have justify a God damn thing.

Good grief. The low gas prices were because of a major world recession. What about the $4 oil prices near the end of Bush's second term? What about the average for the gas prices? Cherry picking one particular number and making out that it was the norm is just rank stupidity.

Bigsby says

Reader says

106   Wed, 19 Sep 2012 at 4:23 am   SHARE   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Delete  

Darrell In Phoenix says

Gas was 1.75/gal just 3 years ago.

Well?

There is no sense talking to some of these people because they clearlly bit the bullet have buyers remorse and will do and say anything to justify their stupidity. Let's be thankful there are a handful of us that avoided this lunacy and aren't debt slaves. My stuff is paid cash. I have to have justify a God damn thing.

Good grief. The low gas prices were because of a major world recession. What about the $4 oil prices near the end of Bush's second term? What about the average for the gas prices? Cherry picking one particular number and making out that it was the norm back then is just rank stupidity.

He isn't cherrypicking one number pick any number for food to gas and I am not talking Bush for Christ's sake W is NOT the basis for all that is today just get off the W bus. Pick any number.

Bigsby says

Reader says

What you also ignore is the cost of gas/electric/food etc that was a fraction of what it is now.

A fraction? What were gas prices adjusted for inflation (and how many miles to a gallon were the cars getting)? The cost of cars? What food are you comparing? Clothes? ...

There is your problem you suffer from the adjusted for inflation syndrome you buy right into the mentality they brainwashed you into. However, reality is that not everything adjusted for inflation. EVERYTHING is through the roof. Have you not noticed what has happened gas double, food double, housing in fake numbers triple, clothes double, real wages declined.

JG1 says

Reader says

As for LA those houses built on the Westside in 1960s ? They were 25K a pop 50K bought you a house in a very good area. 150K bought a stunning property in a high end neighborhood. So no one is going to tell me that a small shack in the same neighbourhoods today warrant 750K NO WAY NO HOW.

And gas was 31 cents a gallon then. I guess no one's going to be able to tell you that it's $4.xx now?

Re-read your own comment YES GAS TODAY IS 4GAL AND IT WAS 31 CENTS AND A NEW HOUSE WAS 25K GET IT???

Michael Cooke says

Reader says

actual student residents from those given areas, NOT Inglewood and downtown LA students bused in on vouchers as they are now.

Reader

What do you mean "bused in"?

Metaphor. They are allowed in to school districts yet they do not live there.

Reader says

He isn't cherrypicking one number pick any number for food to gas and I am not talking Bush for Christ's sake W is NOT the basis for all that is today just get off the W bus. Pick any number.

What are you talking about? Of course he is cherry picking. It is an obviously deceptive number. And if he picks a number 3 years ago, then that is the number you discuss and within a related timeframe, or do you want me to suddenly jump from there to 1950 and an entirely different world?

Bigsby says

Reader says

He isn't cherrypicking one number pick any number for food to gas and I am not talking Bush for Christ's sake W is NOT the basis for all that is today just get off the W bus. Pick any number.

What are you talking about? Of course he is cherry picking. It is an obviously deceptive number. And if he picks a number 3 years ago, then that is the number you discuss and within a related timeframe, or do you want me to suddenly jump from there to 1950 and an entirely different world?

Well, I am not referring to the past 15 years for anything because none of it was real.

Darrell In Phoenix says

BoomAndBustCycle says

We are already at mid 1990s prices in terms of monthly nut. All due to interest rates being 3% vs 8% in the 90s. Do some math for a change

Nonsense.

And try exercising some financial restraint instead of being a howmuchamonth'er.

Restraint?! How dare you ask anyone to conduct themselves with adult intelligence, responsibility and foresight. :-)

Reader says

There is your problem you suffer from the adjusted for inflation syndrome you buy right into the mentality they brainwashed you into. However, reality is that not everything adjusted for inflation. EVERYTHING is through the roof. Have you not noticed what has happened gas double, food double, housing in fake numbers triple, clothes double, real wages declined.

I didn't say everything adjusted for inflation, I said you had to take it into consideration because stating that things like gas used to be a fraction of what they are now is clearly implying that current prices are many times higher than the past adjusted for inflation prices. That's just not true. Gas prices have varied greatly over the decades and actual cost to an individual is clearly also impacted by mileage, which has improved greatly. Or do you take everything in isolation? And what exactly do you expect to happen to a finite resource in a world with an ever increasing population?

Reader says

Restraint?! How dare you ask anyone to conduct themselves with adult intelligence, responsibility and foresight. :-)

You certainly shouldn't bother asking Darrell.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Of course it's true. Wages have been flat to falling for 2 decades now.

Do really believe wages will triple to meet inflated housing prices? Of course not.

Housing prices will continue to fall to meet wages. That's the way the world works.

What's the current median US house price?

Darrell In Phoenix says

Whoa....

Of all people to belabor deception!!!

You've been here lying to the public about housing for how long now?

We;re going to call you out on your lies EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

You say that in nearly every post to me and yet strangely you've never once actually demonstrated it. What a surprise.

Reader says

Well, I am not referring to the past 15 years for anything because none of it was real.

Presumably you just dreamt it.

Bigsby says

Reader says

Well, I am not referring to the past 15 years for anything because none of it was real.

Presumably you just dreamt it.

No pal my mind is clear and head on straight once again let's review I have substaintial assets, no mortgage debt, no auto debt, under 15K left on a private university education and money in the bank. I am NOT dreaming.

Bigsby says

Darrell In Phoenix says

Of course it's true. Wages have been flat to falling for 2 decades now.

Do really believe wages will triple to meet inflated housing prices? Of course not.

Housing prices will continue to fall to meet wages. That's the way the world works.

What's the current median US house price?

TOO HIGH

Reader says

Bigsby says

Darrell In Phoenix says

Of course it's true. Wages have been flat to falling for 2 decades now.

Do really believe wages will triple to meet inflated housing prices? Of course not.

Housing prices will continue to fall to meet wages. That's the way the world works.

What's the current median US house price?

TOO HIGH

Reader

What is it?

Darrell In Phoenix says

Bigsby says

You say that in nearly every post to me and yet strangely you've never once actually demonstrated it. What a surprise.

You demonstrate your dishonesty all on your own. And we're here to make sure everyone knows it.

And yet you still can't give a single example of me lying, or even explain my views on housing.

Reader says

No pal my mind is clear and head on straight once again let's review I have substaintial assets, no mortgage debt, no auto debt, under 15K left on a private university education and money in the bank. I am NOT dreaming.

Ah yes, and what do you think that demonstrates? I have an easily manageable mortgage, investments, several offshore accounts, no student or car loans etc.. etc.. What does that demonstrate? Nothing because just like your 'review,' it has sweet fuck all to do with anything.

Darrell In Phoenix says

That's been done many times here, including yesterday.

You demonstrated nothing yesterday except that you can't draw a straight line in the right place.

Darrell In Phoenix says

And you continue to lie and play stupid about it.

Perhaps you could review what was said yesterday and explain the part where I was lying. You could even post another graph so you can have another go at drawing lines using your computer. You need the practice.

Bigsby says

Reader says

No pal my mind is clear and head on straight once again let's review I have substaintial assets, no mortgage debt, no auto debt, under 15K left on a private university education and money in the bank. I am NOT dreaming.

Ah yes, and what do you think that demonstrates? I have an easily manageable mortgage, investments, several offshore accounts, no student or car loans etc.. etc.. What does that demonstrate? Nothing because just like your 'review,' it has sweet fuck all to do with anything.

It demonstrates that I (as you ignorantly implied by your arsehole statement) was not and am not dreaming.

Now go manage your easily manageable mortgage, investments, several offshore accounts.

Darrell In Phoenix says

And you continue to lie and play stupid about it.

It is an obvious tactic that many of them use. It just doesn't play with everyone and that drives them crazy.

Reader says

It demonstrates that I (as you ignorantly implied by your arsehole statement) was not and am not dreaming.

Now go manage your easily manageable mortgage, investments, several offshore accounts.

Ho, ho, ho. You were the one pointlessly boasting about it. No need to get your knickers in a twist.

Reader says

Darrell In Phoenix says

And you continue to lie and play stupid about it.

It is an obvious tactic that many of them use. It just doesn't play with everyone and that drives them crazy.

Reader

You sound an awful lot like Darrell. And you seem to pop up at just the same time. Isn't it very early in the US?

Darrell In Phoenix says

Perhaps you can stop lying.

Perhaps you could explain what I was lying about. And put the line in the right place.

Bigsby says

Reader says

Darrell In Phoenix says

And you continue to lie and play stupid about it.

It is an obvious tactic that many of them use. It just doesn't play with everyone and that drives them crazy.

Reader

You sound an awful lot like Darrell. And you seem to pop up at just the same time. Isn't it very early in the US?

I sound like myself thank you. It just so happens that we appear to view the situation from a very similar standpoint of view.

As for US time? If you are in Monterey, CA you should know what time it is in the US.

Darrell In Phoenix says

You sound an awful lot like a liar.

Fun as always, but try to up the patter. If variety is the spice of life, you must be a chicken korma.

Reader says

I sound like myself thank you. It just so happens that we appear to view the situation from a very similar standpoint of view.

As for US time? If you are in Monterey, CA you should know what time it is in the US.

I'm not.
And what view would that be? That wages need to triple for people to afford the median US house price? What is the median price anyway?

Oh I see so you say you are in Monterey, CA yet you aren't. OK.

As for the median US house price I am not your reference slave, you are the genius investor ...go look it up.

You know the line doesn't move just because you make the graph bigger. It merely shows you to be wrong in your claim.

Reader says

Oh I see so you say you are in Monterey, CA yet you aren't. OK.

As for the median US house price I am not your reference slave, you are the genius investor ...go look it up.

This is a real estate site. I have a home in Monterey. You work it out. And I'm a genius investor now, am I? How nice.
And I know what the median price is. I was wondering if you did. You and Darrell share the same views. Perhaps you could explain why a tripling of wages is required to afford that median.