patrick.net

xrpb11a says

* eliminating illegal voting will show the majority of legal voters in PA to be republicans, which will result in a win. ( preferred interpretation of republicans )

Really ?

So in other words, republicans are all retards that have no interest in facts ?

I guess you could be right, if you were to put it that way. But tell me this. Do you think those who pushed for the laws did it out of sincere belief that there is a problem with that type of fraud (impersonating a registered voter other than themself) ?

I remember back when one out of 5 or so things you said actually sounded halfway intelligent (under your previous identity Wrtthfk or whatever it was).

PPete says

So lets get out the propaganda that it's because of vote rigging.

It's more like lets be awake and prevent it this time.

If you were awake in 2004, you understand there was probably some funny business in Ohio.

marcus says

(under your previous identity Wrtthfk or whatever it was).

lol.

marcus says

xrpb11a says

* eliminating illegal voting will show the majority of legal voters in PA to be republicans, which will result in a win. ( preferred interpretation of republicans )

Really ?

So in other words, republicans are all retards that have no interest in facts ?

I guess you could be right, if you were to put it that way. But tell me this. Do you think those who pushed for the laws did it out of sincere belief that there is a problem with that type of fraud (impersonating a registered voter other than themself) ?

No. They are pursuing this to win the election by any and all means, same as the democrats. Welcome to politics circa 2012..

I remember back when one out of 5 or so things you said actually sounded halfway intelligent (under your previous identity Wrtthfk or whatever it was).

LOL....wasn't me, but thanks for the backhanded complement....

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

up to 3% illegal voters in just one US court??

If this is possible in Florida, why not PA??

marcus says

Really ?

So in other words, republicans are all retards that have no interest in facts ?

xrpb11a says

Counterpoint.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

up to 3% illegal voters in just one US court??

I thought we were talking about voter fraud. (not jury duty fraud) The Bush justice dept. spent 5 years and millions of dollars looking for it and guess what they found? Nada! (pun intended)

There has been tons of research done by both sides of the political spectrum looking into this and, to date nothing significant has been found. The thing is, illegal aliens don't vote. They are trying to keep as low a profile as possible. If they do vote illegally in any significant #s, (>.001%), BELIEVE ME it would be the lead story on FOX or MSNBC (depending on who they voted for) for weeks. In Penn. the republicans spent a lot of time looking for it in Philly and Pittsburg but never found it.

The reason they can pass this law is because most enfranchised citizens look at it and say "Big deal. Everyone has a govt. issued picture ID. Seems like a logical law." If they understood what was really happening I think most would say it is wrong.

In most states jury duty lists are generated by driver license registration lists and voter registration lists.

rooemoore says

xrpb11a says

Counterpoint.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

up to 3% illegal voters in just one US court??

I thought we were talking about voter fraud. (not jury duty fraud)

The link below states otherwise...

rooemoore says

xrpb11a says

Counterpoint.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

up to 3% illegal voters in just one US court??

I thought we were talking about voter fraud. (not jury duty fraud) The Bush justice dept. spent 5 years and millions of dollars looking for it and guess what they found? Nada! (pun intended)

There has been tons of research done by both sides of the political spectrum looking into this and, to date nothing significant has been found.

People have become so partisan (and limited to the two strongest factions) that they can only see this issue in Democrat vs Republican terms. In 1993 Jimmy Carter published a book (Turning Point) recounting his start in politics in the 1960s, including an election where he had to challenge vote fraud in order to win. Carter's challenge showed that significant numbers of deceased persons had voted, in alphabetical order, in precincts that went for his opponent. After taking office, Carter sponsored legislation to say that nobody could vote who had been dead for more than a few months. As he recounted the story years ago to Jay Leno, "There was debate." People would say things like, "My daddy really cared about this election, and I know how he intended to vote." The French complain that dead people vote in Corsica. From Chicago to Texas, people have been talking about ballot stuffing for half a century. I have never heard of illegal aliens voting, and it seems very unlikely to me, but there is a long history of vote fraud around the world.

It shouldn't be a partisan issue, it should be an opportunity to make sure everyone has free and fair access to ID. I would suggest to Democrats that it should be tied in to requiring and funding paper ballots in all federal elections, and saying everyone should have a right to a free copy of their documents if they need those in order to vote, e.g. birth certificate and Social Security card. Campaign volunteers can drive the elderly.

It's been a national issue since the 2000 election. If the Democrats could get Obamneycare through, why couldn't they do this?

xrpb11a says

The link below states otherwise...

rooemoore says

xrpb11a says

Counterpoint.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

A Heritage Foundation sponsored study from 7 years ago that has been dismissed as misleading and inaccurate by both parties?

The Republicans, (in this case) have alleged voter fraud. It is their onus to prove it. They haven't. I have no problem with a reasonable approach (as you suggested above). Of course, then the real purpose of the law would be mitigated.

I didn't see the "misleading and inaccurate"" statements by both parties. If that's the case, then I need a new 'counterpoint'...

rooemoore says

xrpb11a says

The link below states otherwise...

rooemoore says

xrpb11a says

Counterpoint.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

A Heritage Foundation sponsored study from 7 years ago that has been dismissed as misleading and inaccurate by both parties?

xrpb11a says

I didn't see the "misleading and inaccurate"" statements by both parties. If that's the case, then I need a new 'counterpoint'.

http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/06-11-07%20Former%20Voting%20Section%20Staff%20Letter.pdf

dems and pubs signed this. enjoy reading it.

> It shouldn't be a partisan issue, it should be an opportunity to make sure everyone has free and fair access to ID.

Arguing that voter ID laws motivate better access to ID is completely shitbat backwards. Universal ID might motivate voter ID laws, by reducing the evil of voter ID laws. It doesn't run the other way. Once you get these voter ID laws, one party suddenly has an interest in certain kinds of ID being difficult to obtain. They'll argue that status quo is reasonable and doesn't need fixing. They'll opine that people too lazy to get ID --that they don't otherwise need for any purpose whatsoever-- shouldn't get to vote, secure in their knowledge that their own electorates have a smaller percentage of nondrivers than their opponents'. If you don't think these sorts of political perverse incentives are difficult to quash, consider how long we've been living with gerrymandering.

You're putting a cart before a horse, as the cliche goes. And it's one big motherfucking granddaddy of a horse!

One many of your fellow citizens would rather not have chewing up their lawn, by the way. Some of us like the idea that we ostensibly live in a society where we don't need to carry our papers to participate in civil life. Good civic hygeine, that.

But even that aside: what the hell do you say about the interim? The time between passage of these voter ID laws, and universal papers dissemination laws? You seem like you're on the up-and-up, but you've been taken in by people more cynical than you. "We'll accidentally steal just this one election, and that's it, baby. You can trust me. Just the tip, baby. Just the tip."

xrpb11a says

People with no income will not pay federal income tax, thus would not be eligible for voting for federal offices.

So stay at home mothers can't vote?

It's stupid, but even more so if you wouldn't count payroll taxes (social security) and medicare taxes.

Give em an exemption...

david1 says

xrpb11a says

People with no income will not pay federal income tax, thus would not be eligible for voting for federal offices.

So stay at home mothers can't vote?

The basic premise is that if you pay into the system, you earn the right to vote on how the system is run.

All the test situations offered up so far are just details that would be worked out.

It appears stupid to you because apparently you do not possess the capacity to work out the details.

marcus says

94   Wed, 29 Aug 2012 at 4:15 pm   SHARE   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Delete  
It's stupid, but even more so if you wouldn't count payroll taxes (social security) and medicare taxes.

xrpb11a says

It appears stupid to you because apparently you do not possess the capacity to work out the details.

No it's stupid because it's not what democracy is about.

How do you propose to explain how fair it is for the guy with no job but inherited and invested wealth to vote, but not the long term unemployed person ?

This is nearly the opposite of what our founding fathers had in mind.

xrpb11a says

The basic premise is that if you pay into the system, you earn the right to vote on how the system is run.

But if you don't pay into the system, you're still subject to the system's laws. You still get effected by the decision sof those in the system. No, everyone who meets the citizenship, residency, and age requirements should be able to vote. Stop trying to disenfranchise your fellow Americans because you don't agree with their lives and choices. We're a country, not a high school party. The cool kids and the nerds all have equal rights.

If he invested his wealth, and it is producing capital gains that are taxed, then he can vote.
If his investments produce no taxable income, he forfeits the right. Too bad.

Regarding the founding fathers, times change. people change. rules change.
moot point.

marcus says

How do you propose to explain how fair it is for the guy with no job but inherited and invested wealth to vote, but not the long term unemployed person ?

By your own choice. You can always move to canada.

futuresmc says

xrpb11a says

The basic premise is that if you pay into the system, you earn the right to vote on how the system is run.

But if you don't pay into the system, you're still subject to the system's laws.

Fine.
Stop trying to disembowel the american worker with excessive taxation designed to redistribute one's hard earned income to lazy good for nothing sons of bitches who don't give a shit about society and only exist to drain the government of resources.

futuresmc says

Stop trying to disenfranchise your fellow Americans because you don't agree with their lives and choices.

marcus says

This is nearly the opposite of what our founding fathers had in mind.

Really? Our "founding fathers" were mostly slave-owning scumbags.

The Petrified forest is not a nature preserve.

What has Obama done to fix any of this? Nothing.

The Democrats talk a good game about fixing the abuses of Big Business, but instead they just do the bidding of far-left fringe groups. That further alienates folks who are more conservative on social issues, who then vote Republican in reaction. The Republicans talk a good game about stopping the far-left fringe groups, but then they just further cement the power of the aristocracy and Big Business.

That's pretty much a summar of how American politics works every election cycle.

Both parties have their "useful idiots" that actually believe the promises. Personally, I refuse to be a useful idiot any longer. I'm through playing their game.

freak80 says

The Democrats talk a good game about fixing the abuses of Big Business, but instead they just do the bidding of far-left fringe groups.

wat

freak80 says

I'm through playing their game.

Enjoy the Romney/Ryan administration then. I know I will, from 7 time zones away.

Bellingham is only 3 time zones away from Corning, right? ;-)

How about political caroling.

freak80 says

Because Fox News and AM Radio told him to, that's why.

NPR buddy, I get my horses shit straight from the Jack Ass.

Call it Crazy says

Looks like you won't have to show your card in Texas this year...

Federal court rejects new Texas voter photo ID law
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hzfjUGyXNWMFPtOXJx1U86P7R_Dg?docId=9df1409a2b2740bd91f62251a590eac2

From the article.. seems that the ID law is indeed lawful, a uniform standard is certainly viable, legal and enforceable.

Tatel called the Texas law "the most stringent in the nation." He said it would impose a heavier burden on voters than a similar law in Indiana, previously upheld by the Supreme Court, and one in Georgia, which the Justice Department allowed to take effect without objection.

CaptainShuddup says

Can we please, pretty phucking please with a mango on top, stop worrying about hacked elections, and all of the other non sense.

we sure as phuck can not.

why are you so comfortable with the idea that criminal behavior and lies seem to be the only way the republican party maintains any viability? You go on and on about morality but when it comes down to it all you want is for your "team" to win, any way any how. So much for the great "American Way" of honesty and morality and decency you go blather on about.

phucking pathetic.

Call it Crazy says

Want to vote in a presidential election? Go look at your IRS 1040.... if you paid federal income taxes, you get to vote, if that line has a zero on it, so sorry, better luck next election cycle!!!

so that means Mitt Romney doesn't get to vote?

CaptainShuddup says

We need national election holidays, if not a week of voting festivities.

I would make it start at Thursday nite say 5pm after work hours into all day and night Friday (Holiday) and end by Saturday midnight making it 50+ hour window.

kentm says

so that means Mitt Romney doesn't get to vote?

http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/Web/PresidentialTaxReturns

what do you think ?

tax bill 2010 $3M
est payments made $4.6M YES PAID EVERY QUARTER
Refund... $1.6M

I don't believe in them. I'm a "Returner".

kentm says

I don't believe in them. I'm a Returner.

do you believe in Obama's tax return preparer.. Micheal Solheim, CPA per Obama's tax return?

do you believe in PriceWaterHouse, CPAs who prepared Romneys return ?

CaptainShuddup says

If you think about it, most people with a job can't vote.

Absentee ballot is legal in all states

You can register to vote in about five minutes at any DMV in the country

Some states allow for time off to vote. Employers cannot prevent you from doing so.

We also usually have ballots in other countries and it is not mandatory. Frankly it is easy to vote. It is harder to get free samples of tide in the mail.

Call it Crazy says

kentm says

so that means Mitt Romney doesn't get to vote?

You really are clueless!!!

And you are gullible. It was a joke.

No.
It means he gets 1000 votes to your 1.

2010 Tax Return for Romneys

Here are details of the 2010 tax return filed by the Romneys:

Income: $21,661,344
Capital Gains Income: $12,573,249
Dividend Income: $3,327,678
Adjusted Gross Income: $21,646,507
Itemized Deductions: $4,519,140
Charitable Donations: $2,983,974
Taxes Paid: $3,009,766
Effective Tax Rate: 13.9%
Estimated 2011 Tax Return for Romneys

Here are details of the estimated 2011 tax return for the Romneys:

Income: $20,908,880
Capital Gains Income: $10,700,179
Dividend Income: $1,905,753
Adjusted Gross Income: $20,901,075
Itemized Deductions: $5,688,179
Charitable Donations: $4,020,572
Taxes Paid: $3,226,623
Effective Tax Rate: 15.4%

kentm says

Call it Crazy says

Want to vote in a presidential election? Go look at your IRS 1040.... if you paid federal income taxes, you get to vote, if that line has a zero on it, so sorry, better luck next election cycle!!!

so that means Mitt Romney doesn't get to vote?

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

I love it!

ELECTION ORGY WEEK!

The whole week off - everyone gets shitfaced and fucks in the streets and goes to the 24 hour polling stations and gets a beer when they leave.

Wait, what's this about AF making love and not war?!?

How about this: we do the weeklong festival, but at the start the Budweiser people hand out free samples of beer, and the NRA people hand out free samples of assault weapons and ammunition. Initially, the NRA members will slaughter their unarmed political opponents. Then, over a disagreement about whether Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich is the One True Prophet (tm), the remaining prospective voters slaughter each other. At the end, the sole surviving voter is a little old lady in Dubuque who is hard of hearing and thus never learned of the festival. She casts her lone vote, writing in FDR as she has for the last 70 years, and thus Mr. Roosevelt is elected unanimously to a fifth term as President of the United States.

And that's the way it was.