patrick.net

Let me know if you have any marketing advice.

These days it's either a wardrobe malfunction or a sex tape. Your choice.

What we really need is an intelligent show for the public. My dream team for an alternative to 'the view' would be Patrick, Matt Tabbi, and Charles Hugh Smith.

I think prices can just as easily drop back to the normal ratio. Rents cannot rise beyond what salaries support.

With enough corruption you have two different classes. Owners for whom price is no object, and then everyone else.

Wow, it's not even an autographed copy!

Weird.

That's a 47% gain in just a matter of weeks.

Is Patrick a misogynist…?

That was the question put to me by someone reading through my copy of the book.

I don’t remember what passage sparked this question (I think it may have been something about the wife spending the husbands money, insinuating that the marriage is not a 50/50 partnership), but it was before they even got to the section “Your Wife”, which personifies this theme in the book.

I believe that the reason for this is that in general the book is speaking to men, and when referring to women often paint them as a “bad guy” during the home buying process.

Do I think that Patrick is a misogynist? No, I actually agree with the reasoning in the “Your Wife” section.

Suggestions for giving the book more cross-gender appeal:
- I think that “Your Wife” has good info on why some women would “conspire” to buy a home. Being that it is very women specific I don’t think simply labeling it “Your Spouse” would be enough. I think that there are also uniquely masculine motivations for a husband to become a conspirator (Yes, men also have innate motivations that would get them to buy when they should not). I think that two sections to address each, “Your Wife” and “Your Husband” would be a good solution. That in mind…;

- The book ignores the spectrum of behavior for feminine to masculine stereotypes, and that some men can advocate for housing for “feminine” reasons and some women for “masculine” reasons. When writing you may want to keep this in mind and not be too absolute on the behaviors of either gender. Qualifying sentences like, “While these behaviors general motivate women to want to buy, do keep in mind that you may end up hearing some of these from your husband.”;

- However, for the most part you may want to write from a gender neutral position. This book should also speak to a women who is having hesitations about buying and is being pressured by her husband. In short when writing don’t assume that the male bread winner is the one who is being pressured into buying a home that they cannot afford.

Other suggestions for future prints of the book:

- Another conspirator “Your Friends.” In my case, during the run up, I had significantly more pressure from friends to buy than from any of the other conspirators. Bother “internal”, just seeing them buying and wanting to own also, and directly friends actually telling me what a great time it was to buy (BTW, most now are underwater or foreclosed).

- More visual data. Charts, graphs, etc. can often times help ideas and data come alive driving home a point in a much more convincing manner than a page of text will.

Thanks for the suggestions! I will use them in the next edition. I admit the first edition was rather rushed, but my wife did review it, and she is one of the few readers who didn't object to my point that the majority of houses are bought by men for their wives!

I don't think I'm misogynist. At least I've never been accused of it before.

...the majority of houses are bought by men for their wives!

Yeah, I would bet the majority are, but probably not by too much. These days there are a lot of dual income houses...

I don't think I'm misogynist. At least I've never been accused of it before.

It was more of a question than an accusation ;)

taxee says

Let me know if you have any marketing advice.

These days it's either a wardrobe malfunction or a sex tape. Your choice.

Can I vote for neither of these?

The only thing that I know about marketing books on Amazon is that reviews are valuable.

Buying the book is a great way to support Patrick, but enjoying the book then writing a review is even better!

looks like a good book did you ever buy a house or are you still waiting for the bottom?

majority of houses are bought by men for their wives!

Women buy the majority of houses.

It's a thing in the Real Estate business that women control 80% of the world's wealth.

When a women says she has $5K in the bank, she has $10K. When a man says he has $5K in the bank it means he owes $5K, to somebody.

Real Estate agents know never to talk to the man. If the man is in charge, the deal is screwed, and it's best to move on.

Women save, and make the financial decisions.

toothfairy says

looks like a good book did you ever buy a house or are you still waiting for the bottom?

I don't bother trying to predict future prices. I just look at how much money I'm saving every month by renting. I'm still saving a ton, so I still rent. It's too much free money to give up.

If that changes for my area and the kind of house I'm in and I can save by owning, then I will own. I'm not philosophically opposed to owning. I don't like burning money just to get a warm feeling.

Well you can rent forever but isn't there a crossover point where buying always becomes cheaper? I mean if you're renting for 30 years. If you'd been paying a mortgage for that time the house would be paid off.

Actually you dont even have to wait 30 years. Once the mortgage balance is half paid off you can refinance and cut your monthly payments in half.

toothfairy says

Well you can rent forever but isn't there a crossover point where buying always becomes cheaper? I mean if you're renting for 30 years. If you'd been paying a mortgage for that time the house would be paid off.

Actually you dont even have to wait 30 years. Once the mortgage balance is half paid off you can refinance and cut your monthly payments in half.

Exactly.

Renting for 30 years at 2600/month = 936k if your rent never goes up.
Buying a 600k house with a 30 year fixed 3.675% = 1mill including prop tax and interest. Not included are maintenance costs and the tax break you are getting when you purchase.

After 30 years...one still has to rent for maybe another 20 years...and the other one doesn't and only pays prop tax.

I don't see the vast amount of "free money" while renting part in this equation. Patrick, is your neighborhood so different. Give us some examples of recently sold properties and the going rate for rent for the same house in your neighborhood. I only know the LA market, but not the SF market. Maybe its different where you are.

SubOink says

Give us some examples of recently sold properties and the going rate for rent for the same house in your neighborhood. I only know the LA market, but not the SF market. Maybe its different where you are.

I dont doubt that Patrick has some sweet deal where he pays little in rent. Even if he's renting a $5k per month house for $2k to me that's not saving money. It's living a lifestyle you can't afford. Sort of like leasing a Ferrari for $800 per month.

toothfairy says

Well you can rent forever but isn't there a crossover point where buying always becomes cheaper? I mean if you're renting for 30 years. If you'd been paying a mortgage for that time the house would be paid off.

Actually no! There is no crossover point where I live.

My rent is about equal to what property taxes and maintenance would be for me. (My landlord pays near zero property tax due to Prop 13, but I could not get that same deal, being a relative newcomer.)

So I get the use of the capital that is the house and land for free. You just can't beat that.

SubOink says

Maybe its different where you are.

Yes, the Bay Area is planet weird in many respects, and the price to rent ratio is one of those respects. I understand that in many cheap places there are good deals now, meaning it's cheaper to own than to rent over the median holding period of 6 years.

SubOink says

After 30 years...

Assuming that one will own for 20 or 30 years is probably the most common fallacy out there.

The median ownership length in America is only 6 years. You may think you're different, but statistically, you're not.

So youre renting a $700k house for around $1k per month? Then thats a pretty good deal. You cant even rent an apartment in the ghetto for that much.

If I were given that deal I would probably rent but only until I saved up enough money to buy

toothfairy says

So youre renting a $700k house for around $1k per month? Then thats a pretty good deal. You cant even rent an apartment in the ghetto for that much.

Yes, you got the ratio right, but my numbers are higher. Wait, it's actually more like 2.2% annual rent / purchase price for me. Still a great deal though.

toothfairy says

If I were given that deal I would probably rent but only until I saved up enough money to buy

You'd buy even if it continued to be a far better deal to rent the same thing?

I guess that's one of the things that motivates me to do all this. People who grossly overpay make it harder for me to get a good deal. So I want to point out just how much they are overpaying.

You'd buy even if it continued to be a far better deal to rent the same thing?

well I wouldn't buy that house.. I'd probably buy something cheaper. Using those same numbers I'd probably try to save 200k and look for a 500k house. With the tax deduction the payments would be about $1300 per month. Just counting the interest your monthly payments are about $875 per month.

Assuming that one will own for 20 or 30 years is probably the most common fallacy out there.

The median ownership length in America is only 6 years. You may think you're different, but statistically, you're not.

That't the line mortgage brokers and real estate agents tell you when they try to push you into a 5/1 or 7/1 arm loan...total BS.

The truth is - I don't know ANYBODY that has owned and moved within 6 years and I know a lot of people. My entire neighborhood consists of people that have lived here their whole life. My old neighborhood where we rented for a long time (woodland hills) was the same way and I am sure there are more. All my close friends that own houses own and live in them for more than 15 years.

Not a fallacy, its a reality.

Also, if you buy at the right price...you can move if you want to. You don't need to sell the house just because you move. Rent the house and move.

You'd buy even if it continued to be a far better deal to rent the same thing?

Most people are willing to pay more to own than rent because they prefer the lifestyle. It's the only way to have a house that (over time) is completely personalized. Remodel to your liking, restructure to your liking.

SubOink says

Remodel to your liking, restructure to your liking.

Maybe inside, if you get planning permission and all. Outside, much harder to get permission.

And who says landlords won't allow improvements? They love improvements.

SubOink says

if you buy at the right price...

Yes, that's my whole point and only point really. So you agree.

SubOink says

I don't know ANYBODY that has owned and moved within 6 years

And nonetheless it's a fact that the median ownership length is 6 years. Look it up.

Maybe inside, if you get planning permission and all. Outside, much harder to get permission.
And who says landlords won't allow improvements? They love improvements.

Actually landlords dont love improvements unless it's done the way THEY want it.
I'm in the process of converting my house into a duplex so I can leave one half open for when I want to stay there and rent the other half.
Good luck getting your landlord to agree to that!
And no I'm not getting anyone's permission to do this. If the city says something I'll pay the fines.

SubOink says

The truth is - I don't know ANYBODY that has owned and moved within 6 years

actually most of the homes I've bought I've lived there for 6 years or less but only because I bought a new house and transferred my equity into the new one . As long as you don't increase your debt you're still on the same 30 year cycle.

SFace says

would you really want to upgrade the kitchen or bathroom knowing you are leasing the place?

People do, especially in expensive markets. It's fairly standard with high-end rentals in NYC.

SFace says

An established neighborhood like Menlo Park, especially for SFH, median ownership is likely around 20 years.

No, pretty sure it's nowhere near 20 years. Houses turn over here constantly. Just drive around and you see for sale signs all the time. I certainly see them.

In fact, I usually get a kick out of biking around and noting all the houses I've seen the inside of when they were for sale. There are only a very few people I know of who've been in the neighborhood longer than I have (13 years now).

than I have (13 years now)

You yourself prove me right. Haven't moved in 13 years...

I rest my case.

I rent though.

Buying a house is a tricky thing most people go through a few before they finally settle down.

Cut expenses while you are working. Save half your income. Buy with cash when you retire. Use a lifetime of learning to make the biggest purchase of your life.

taxee says

Cut expenses while you are working. Save half your income. Buy with cash when you retire. Use a lifetime of learning to make the biggest purchase of your life.

But then you will miss the lifetime experience of speculating!

bubblesitter says

But then you will miss the lifetime experience of speculating!

Youth is a kick even without spending a lot. Go for the surest thing and maybe have a dignified old age.

SubOink says

Remodel to your liking, restructure to your liking.

Maybe inside, if you get planning permission and all. Outside, much harder to get permission.

And who says landlords won't allow improvements? They love improvements.

SubOink says

if you buy at the right price...

Yes, that's my whole point and only point really. So you agree.

SubOink says

I don't know ANYBODY that has owned and moved within 6 years

And nonetheless it's a fact that the median ownership length is 6 years. Look it up.

Flippers have skewed the owership average a lot. They shouldnt count a less than one year of owning but they do.

There are only a very few people I know of who've been in the neighborhood longer than I have (13 years now).

I'd love to see a rough rent/buy calc for over the 13 years that shows you have been better off renting vs buying for those 13 years.

Not saying it's not possible, especially with a great rental deal, but hard for me to fathom without seeing the numbers.

I saw Patrick's ad for his book today. I hope he sells a lot of them. I only wish he provided more details about what is in the book.

Biff

SFace says

My SFH in Hercules, probably 1-2, lol.

@SFace so true. My folks own a home in neighboring Pinole, and the turnover we've witnessed in this neighborhood has been alarming... Neighborhood was built in 1990 and is in the ballpark of less than 10% of original owners remaining. That makes for a neighborhood where you don't want to meet your neighbors since they are sure to bail in no time.

Patrick, how many copies you up to?

Test: @BayArea

Bought it and my wife immediately picked it up and started reading. Surprising since she loathes another rant from me inspired by patrick.net.

BayArea says

Patrick, how many copies you up to?

472 sold now.

Awesome, climbing steadily looks like.

Now, who are those bulls that posted negative reviews?