patrick.net

Barking dogs can be a huge problem. Even some cats can be surprisingly loud. People blame the pets, but the problem is almost always the owner.

A highly stressed dog left alone all day can bark like crazy and cause all sorts of problems, fearing abandonment. Some owners bring that out. A nearby building has many dogs, but only one apartment has a barking dog, and that apartment with that owner continues to have the same problem year after year even with a new dog. One dog alone can actually be worse than two together, because some dogs can't handle being alone.

Also smaller dogs are more likely to bark, and some are trained specifically to bark at certain times. It's amazing how the medical industrial complex has got into even this niche market: companion dogs trained to bark to remind people to take their pills. Why buy a $10 alarm watch when you can get a $5,000 trained dog to wake up the neighbors at all hours? Plus since it's called "health care" they can ignore lease restrictions in some jurisdictions.

pkennedy says

Even $1400 in damage is covered by the initial deposit. I figure if I asked for up to $1000 extra ($3000 total), all my tenants would agree to pay it. If they didn't, they would when I presented them with a court date because no one wants that on their record, even if they win.

In L.A., there is a max. deposit you can collect, pet or no pet. I had a landlord tell me dog nails scratched up hardwood floor and it took entire security deposit $2-3K to refinish/repair. If there had been other damage on top of that, landlord would be out of security deposit and into small claims / collections.

So that's a risk. Other than that, I think a blanket no pets policy isn't a great idea, case by case seems to me to be more reasonable.

And this is probably a major argument for owning instead of renting. To me, pets are part of human life, as is gardening. I rented a house to a family once and their pet was the least of my troubles. The damage the humans did basically undid all the improvements I'd put in when I was trying to sell the place. Most of it wasn't even the kids, like using a plastic surface for a cigar holder.

I think the piss stains and smell are the main problem.

But there have also been cases where a large dog attacks another tenant and the landlord is sued for allowing the large dog.

You beat me to it. Right from the title I was about to write the same.

Dogs can do a great deal of damage; especially young dogs with the chewing and digging. It's not just the interior you need to worry about - landscaping can get trashed by a bored dog, kept outside in a fenced yard while the owners are gone. The last house we rented before I bought a place, the previous tenants had a dog that chewed all the heads off the sprinkler system and dug up everything that was planted in the back yard. So when we moved in, while the damage had been repaired, the owners never replaced the plants so the yard was barren except patchy grass. Inside the house, they told us, the same dog had demolished much of the floor trim by chewing/gnawing it, so that was another expense replacing all the damaged sections. I have dogs (4) and two cats. The cats are neutered and don't spray, nor do they muck about with anything that would cause problems. My pets are admittedly, one of the reasons I wanted to purchase a home rather than continue renting. They can 'be dogs' outside all they like, and since it's a farm and not a landscaped yard, the dig holes they make catching gophers isn't an issue.

If I were to have a rental property, I'd definitely rent to folks with pets...with a good-sized, likely non-refundable damage fee attached to the contract. Pets are not unlike having toddlers in the house - if toddlers had sharp teeth/claws with which to destroy things. My house isn't a home without animal friends, but I'm fully aware of what they can do.

pkennedy says

Even $1400 in damage is covered by the initial deposit. I figure if I asked for up to $1000 extra ($3000 total), all my tenants would agree to pay it. If they didn't, they would when I presented them with a court date because no one wants that on their record, even if they win.

I would countersue for malicious prosecution as well as legal fees and punitive damages. Then you would be the one dropping your lawsuit and paying my filing fees.

robertoaribas says

[patrick's cheap server won't let me upload a pic of the pets...]

Sure it will. First browse for the image THEN click Upload Image.

Here's mine.

repo4sale says

PETS ARE PIGS... SIMPLE!

The people you're renting to are the pigs. I have two cats and we always ask our friends if they smell anything. They never do.

I've been in people's houses who have young children and the place smells like a zoo. Far nastier than pets. Can you charge a rugrat deposit?

no matter how you cut it.........pets do damage in one way or the other.
I have pets in my home......love dogs.......
Wife love cars......

They are unsanitary and not worth ruining a rental unless you can repaint and re-floor the entire unit I would never move into it.
Its almost impossible to get rid of animal smell.

having said all that treat it like a hotel room.smoking and non smoking

Pet rentals and non pet rentals....you will win some and lose some

repo4sale says

Off topic and utterly incorrect. I've posted a new thread to discuss this.

Both sides need to get their facts straight when it comes to the debt.

@patrick

robertoaribas says

[patrick's cheap server won't let me upload a pic of the pets...]

I have noticed problems uploading pictures. I think it happens only when you try to add a picture to an existing post. In that case either the upload does not happen or the text box for your comment isn't updated with the URL to the uploaded picture. I don't know which.

But there have also been cases where a large dog attacks another tenant and the landlord is sued for allowing the large dog.

This happens. I had a guy who kept wild coyotes in the top half of one of my units. An animal hoarder, I guess you could call him. A supremely good guy, ex-military, corn-fed, strong character, solid jawline, never late with rent -- but he was crazy about the goddamn dogs. The story ends with a little boy getting his ass chewed, ensuing in a huge physical altercation, devolving from there into a block fight and concluding with a four hour SWAT team standoff with my tenant. I still rent to him.

I had another gentleman who enjoyed the company of Mojave green pit vipers, cause he thought the venom did something or other for his dick. Literally, a snake oil believer. He kept over a dozen of them in several drums behind the house and handled them everyday with a golf club. Well, my neighbor was a Mormon and ended up getting bit by one of my tenant's little pets during a show 'n' tell. Being Mormon, he would not accept an anti-venom, and stayed in the hospital for five days. I paid for his visit.

bob2356 says

leas in south texas are the least of my bug worries.

You got that right. That's a damn hell hole down there!

When you are offering something up for sale (in this case, your rental units), its always best to have the doors open to the widest audience, greater pool of potential buyers. There's a catch 22 at play here, every time you pick up an additional potential renter because they can bring their pets, you probably lose one on the other side of the trade that doesn't want to deal with the smell

And I wasn't aware that poly on the wood floors equated to them being animal resistant? Pretty certain the ammonia still penetrates/leaches to the wood, and this ruins it, not to mention that their nails scratch the hell out of it. You can't sand and refinish away that stain. And sand/refinish wood floors is neither cheap or easy. You could screen and coat light scratches away I guess, but that's still expensive, and even if you know what you're doing, its time consuming. Nobody wants a DIY landlord refinishing their hardwood if they don't know what they're doing. I find carpet disgusting, I always tear out existing wall to wall carpeting, it is a petri dish for bacteria/disease. Thro rugs and small carpets are fine that can be pulled up and removed at ease

Animals absolutely stain a house with their odors. Humans are animals too

The dog poo and pee would be enough for me to not allow dogs. Cats that are fixed and declawed aren't going to be a problem. In fact, even most clawed cats aren't going to be a problem, if they are it's the owner's fault. I'm on my 5th cat, not counting the 3 I grew up with and none of them have ever damaged the house in any way. I had one that occasionally peed on a door mat, but that was may fault because she didn't like going to me basement where my litterbox was (which made the problem easily fixable) My GF is on her 16th cat, and all of them have had claws and none of them have ever damaged her house either. She only had one cat that didn't like using the litterbox, and it was a cat that lived in her crawlspace for about 6 years before she came inside. After switching to "Cat Attact" litter the cat started using the box. It does help when you have hardwood floors though.

dublin hillz says

FortWayne says

Animals do have a lot of odor. If probably would have to replace carpet when owners leave.

I just have several friends who do own pets, and their houses always have a smell of a dog in them.

Freedom 1789-2012

Dogs belong in a wild, they are not meant to wear giants and niners gear, that's just cruel!

I still don't understand why cheeky fellas out here walk around with little tiny dogs size of a hamster wearing some fruity little sweaters.

The Jack London Square area of Oakland was built up with condos galore just before the crash. When they couldn't sell 'em they tried to rent them. When that didn't work, they all became dog friendly and now they all look pretty full. The neighborhood is all concrete warehouse district all concrete. On warm days, the whole neighborhood smells like dog piss. The street trees look like they are dying. It's awful.

Dan8267 says

robertoaribas says

[patrick's cheap server won't let me upload a pic of the pets...]

I have noticed problems uploading pictures. I think it happens only when you try to add a picture to an existing post. In that case either the upload does not happen or the text box for your comment isn't updated with the URL to the uploaded picture. I don't know which.

Thanks for telling me about this! I will try to reproduce it and fix it.

It seems that small dogs could attack, cats aren't likely to create a major problem. These aren't large places, so it's not like I would ever consider a large animal.

It seems the ammonia + long term seeping into the wood under the floor is what concerns people the most.

I only collect a month deposit for these places, so I could go further if I needed, I just don't see any of my tenants ever wanting anything bad on their records, they're all highly paid professionals. They might disagree, but they won't just walk off.

pkennedy says

It seems the ammonia + long term seeping into the wood under the floor is what concerns people the most.

Again this is fixable and with some forethought is preventable and fixable:

To block (existing) pet odors:
http://www.kilz.com/masterchem/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=212f90033f9ff110VgnVCM1000008a05d103RCRD
KILZ COMPLETE, KILZ ORIGINAL or KILZ ODORLESS primers

KILZ COMPLETE, KILZ ORIGINAL and KILZ ODORLESS are the ideal primers for sealing in odors, especially those created by pets. These primers can be applied to flooring, walls and baseboards. For severe odors, two coats are recommended. NOTE: KILZ COMPLETE, KILZ ORIGINAL and KILZ ODORLESS primers should only be applied on flooring when carpet or tile will be applied after priming.

pkennedy says

It seems the ammonia + long term seeping into the wood under the floor is what concerns people the most.

You can also have a small supply of Nature's Miracle or similar product available on hand for your renters so they can take care of the problem right away.

Waterproof laminate flooring:

http://www.dumaplast.be/en/brands/dumafloor/

pkennedy says

It seems the ammonia + long term seeping into the wood under the floor is what concerns people the most.

An easier option might be to simply lay a waterproof barrier as is put under laminate flooring. This would eliminate the possibility of pet stains getting into the wood/concrete.

zzyzzx says

Cats that are fixed and declawed aren't going to be a problem. In fact, even most clawed cats aren't going to be a problem, if they are it's the owner's fault. I'm on my 5th cat, not counting the 3 I grew up with and none of them have ever damaged the house in any way. I had one that occasionally peed on a door mat, but that was may fault because she didn't like going to me basement where my litterbox was (which made the problem easily fixable) My GF is on her 16th cat, and all of them have had claws and none of them have ever damaged her house either. She only had one cat that didn't like using the litterbox, and it was a cat that lived in her crawlspace for about 6 years before she came inside. After switching to "Cat Attact" litter the cat started using the box. It does help when you have hardwood floors though.

We trim our cats' claws. Its easy to train even a crabby old cat to accept a trim, just never, ever cut too deep. Once the claws are trimmed they are much less likely to cause property damage. Declawing may be a last resort for a problem pet (better than the shelter) but trimming often works just fine.

robertoaribas says

I use quality porcelain tile.... and a special additive to the grout which makes it stain resistant. I can turn a damn hose in the house when i'm finished

Again pets or no pets tile with sealed grout is the best option.

ELC says

I've been in people's houses who have young children and the place smells like a zoo. Far nastier than pets. Can you charge a rugrat deposit?

Not legally.

There is a huge difference between bad smelling kids and ammonia/odors that seep into the floor and never go away.

ELC says

robertoaribas says

[patrick's cheap server won't let me upload a pic of the pets...]

Sure it will. First browse for the image THEN click Upload Image.

Dan was right. On the initial composition of a comment, the image upload works fine. But if you go to edit the comment and try to upload a new picture to that, it doesn't work.

Will work on it today.

@new renter

There is no repairing hardwood flooring that's been stained from (animal) urine. Human urine as well (ever have a tenant put the babys diaper hamper on wood flooring?). You can replace small sections of hardwood flooring, which is one benefit of having the real thing over that cheap, tacky, non-durable laminate, which you have to tongue and groove it together from a starting point, so its virtually impossible to repair

People use murphys oil soap and other cleaners (some with ammonia!) On poly coated hardwood, which is equally destructive

pkennedy says

There is a huge difference between bad smelling kids and ammonia/odors that seep into the floor and never go away.

You'd be surprised

One big difference is, you're not likely to have a new tenant be allergic to a prior stinky families stench, however, many people are highly allergic to cat dander. By opening your doors to people with cats, you close them to people with cat allergies

errc says

One big difference is, you're not likely to have a new tenant be allergic to a prior stinky families stench

One of the advantages amongst many of buying new construction is that you don't have to deal with "prior stinky families stench."

JohnAlexander says

no matter how you cut it.........pets do damage in one way or the other.

I have pets in my home......love dogs.......

Wife love cars......

They are unsanitary and not worth ruining a rental unless you can repaint and re-floor the entire unit I would never move into it.

Its almost impossible to get rid of animal smell.

having said all that treat it like a hotel room.smoking and non smoking

Pet rentals and non pet rentals....you will win some and lose some

One LL I know offered pet friendly because he knew he was going to recarpet after this tenant any way, due to the age / condition of the carpet, and the rest of the place is tiles.

Here are the reasons you should not allow pets. This list applies overwhelmingly to DOGS:

1) Odor
2) Flea infestations
3) Ticks
4) Possibility of worms
5) Excessive barking (and everything that comes along with that)
6) Defecating/Urinating in unit, halls, elevators, common areas etc
7) Allergens (some people are allergic to dogs)
8) Attack/Biting/ potential lawsuits involving your presence at court
9) Alienating quality renters. All else equal they will rent at the apartment with no mutts. This will gradually turn your apartment complex into a kennel.

And last but not least:

10) Dog owner behavior.

Dog owners EXPECT everyone to love their dogs and if you don’t then there is something wrong with you. Dog owners invade your space. They ALWAYS let their dogs come up to complete strangers and press their wet noses on their leg. I’ve had this happen literally 5 minutes after leaving with expensive pressed pants. It pressed it’s nose on my leg leaving a wet spot. I told the owner “you know these pants are brand new $150 and I really don’t appreciate you allowing your dog to come up to me”. He starts saying he’s sorry “oh she never does that I’m sorry etc.” and the dog (sensing I was pissed) starts barking at me while he’s pulling it back saying “hey! Stop that!” all within the confines of an elevator. This COMMON when dog owners interact with your tenants who are non-dog owners. I suspect many dog owners have little to no social life. They use the dog as a proxy. If it wasn’t for their dog they would never meet anyone.

Dog owners will always deny these facts due to their love of their pets. Their emotions totally overrule their logic 100%. I have seen this entire life all the way up until a few months ago. One particular instance I remember… as a teenager.. I was in a dog owner’s house and it was full of fleas. I said "um excuse me but did you know your house has fleas?". That's all it took. They both flew off the handle "Our Dog Ain't Got No Fleas!!!!" “What’s he talkin bout?!?!” I said "yes it does see" and put my hand down on the carpet… "look there they are". His fat trailer trash wife yells "I don't see nothin!!!" and he says "I don't see nothin either!" “he don’t like our dog!” etc.. And I said “but…but”’ and before I could demonstrate again they yelled "You don’t like our house then get out!!!". All the while the dog was barking at me. This is typical dog owner logic.

The dogs will bark non-stop and you will have a tenant issue on your hands. For all of the above reasons this why most quality places (keyword: quality) do not allow dogs. At most they only allow small pets like cats, fish, birds etc.

I think if you need pet owners it shows you must really need tenants. I know the “pet deposits” and "pet rent" are tempting because you make more money and (if you are an unscrupulous landlord, like many are) you can legally take the deposits by claiming the dog went in the house and there is little if anything they can do. No judge is going to agree with the typical emotional whining dog owner when they saw “but your honor my dog doesn’t go in the house” etc.

You also run the costs of cleanup and flea control. When the typical inconsiderate dog owner moves out they will leave a parting gift - fleas. Even if you gut and replace everything some fleas and flea eggs WILL remain in the apartment. And they WILL hatch and YOU will have to pay to eradicate them. This will inconvenience you and the new tenants. They will come home to a poisoned sprayed apartment and the bug man may have to come back again and again until the problem is corrected. Your new tenants will not appreciate this.

I would just do a cost benefit analysis; unless the benefits outweigh the costs I would keep the place dog free or set a dog quota and gouge them for the absolute highest prices on pet rents and deposits. The minute your quota is met and more want to move in raise your pet rent, clean them out and get the new ones in.

New Renter says

robertoaribas says

I use quality porcelain tile.... and a special additive to the grout which makes it stain resistant. I can turn a damn hose in the house when i'm finished

Again pets or no pets tile with sealed grout is the best option.

What about this artificial hardwood floor stuff I hear many landlords swearing by? Allure, I think it's called?

underwaterman says

The most expensive repair I ate was the laminate flooring

Then stop using cheap substitutes when you should have been using the real thing.

Robertoaribas

I would like to add an exception:

Toy Dogs

These are fine. I actually like Chiwawas. I would also like to add I feel my whiny bitchy rant applies to the overwhelming majority of dog owners. There is always the exception to the rule. For instance my aunt owns a very nice dog but she is rich and they clean the house constantly while constantly caring for their dog in every possible way. But as I said, they are rich and can afford it.

This does not apply to the majority of dog owners.

robertoaribas says

Or i have another plan: don't rent to whiny bitchy little people like Michael cooke above! what a rant, go see a psychologist about your mental problems!

Yea no shit. And $150 new pants that she's getting all fussy over because the dog pressed its nose against? And you're calling other people anti social. What kind of cheap ass buys 150 pants and then gets upset because a dog sniffs them?

And what are you doing in the house of fat trailer trash strangers with fleas?
What are you, a door to door vacuum cleaner saleswoman?

Michael Cooke says

I told the owner “you know these pants are brand new $150 and I really don’t appreciate you allowing your dog to come up to me”.

Vultures wear $150 pants? All the ones I meet already have snot and urine stains on their little Dickies. :)

Dan was right. On the initial composition of a comment, the image upload works fine. But if you go to edit the comment and try to upload a new picture to that, it doesn't work.

Will work on it today.

OK, I think you can now successfully upload images to comments when you edit them.

Earlier, image upload seemed to work only when you first create the comment.

Please tell me about other bugs!

pkennedy says

odors that seep into the floor and never go away.

Has anyone tried an industrial ionizer. I was looking at an apartment that had one running and it was impossible to smell anything. It was like the ions made the whole place smell fresh in a very neutral way. I even turned off the ionizer and it still was perfect. It just made me wonder why they had it there in the first place. Grow house?

JohnAlexander says

I have pets in my home......love dogs.......
Wife love cars......

Hey, I like cars too!

I have two cats and when I was looking for my rental house in California I originally avoided everything that mentioned "No Pets." But then I realized there was almost nothing left and changed my strategy.

Being that I am one of the best tenants ever (only been a homeowner), I put together a family resume with photos, to include my cat. I have the best cat ever so I didn't need to embelish anything, but I mentioned his age, his vet, and some cute quirks of his. Included photos of the house I had just left due to divorce, a beautiful place with gorgeous landscaping.

After touring desirable properties with the owner/manager, I brought out copies of my resume, copy of my credit report, and a filled out generic rental application. I then mentioned my cat. Needless to say the house I chose made an exception to their pet policy and allowed my cat. It was the perfect house, only had three owners and had never been rented before. We were very happy there.

I took beautiful care of it, even doing some upgrades using my own money. Absolutely no smell as the catbox stayed in the garage with access via a pet door through the garage door, replaced that door before I moved.

As long as you look and act like the exact tenant they want in their house, they will likely make an exception for you. Don't show up with your makeup streaked down your face from the night before, wearing sweats and dragging a snotty kid. I toured during the week so I was fully dressed and ready for work - hair done, makeup on, work clothes and heels.

I had numerous properties that wanted to rent to me after I had my ducks in a row.