patrick.net

Ok, "middle income" people.

Waitingtobuy says

I can see moving to a place like NC, or Austin.

You and everyone else.

So how long until those places become hell holes?

Didn't you know this already about CA before you moved there two years ago?

I just moved from Santa Monica to Seattle. Two kids and a third on the way forced the issue. My income is pretty good for Santa Monica but I couldn't find an acceptable home in a decent school district for anything close to an acceptable amount of debt.

I intended to rent for a year or two in Seattle, but the economics were better for buying and I bought twice the house for half the money (almost literally).

Seattle. The only place in the lower 48 which is cloudier than where I live!

But at least there's no snow.

grendel says

I just moved from Santa Monica to Seattle. Two kids and a third on the way forced the issue. My income is pretty good for Santa Monica but I couldn't find an acceptable home in a decent school district for anything close to an acceptable amount of debt.

I intended to rent for a year or two in Seattle, but the economics were better for buying and I bought twice the house for half the money (almost literally).

I feel for your situation because I know when I was in school in Santa Monica things were already falling apart. You yourself know living there how overrated and overpriced the place is so I won't get into that. Friends who are an old family living off Ocean North of Wilshire have told me that there is only a small sliver of Santa Monica left that is livable and that is so grossly overpriced most are leaving who haven't left already. You made the right move if you have children in my view. I remember as I have said before when Santa Monica High School was one of the three in demand along with Culver City and Beverly Hills but I must say even in the 80s one could see the Santa Monica gang issue and the line up of them all and their relatives on Pico when school let out. Even Santa Monica College is another world from what it was pre 1993. I am just ranting on because I personally understand your sitation and why you did what you did. I support your decision for many reasons mentioned and unmentioned.

lostand confused says

first amendment rights

First Amendment Rights are the famous Democratic cry and strong hold but in all honesty they do apply to all. Don't throw her into my mix. I would speak my mind civil rights or not.

I don't speak due to my civil rights I speak as a man who isn't going to be manipulated or pulled into shite.

lostand confused says

So you assume people are innocent and incapabale of making decisions for themselves? You seem to confuse grown adults with little children.

I hate to inform you "Lost and Confused" people today the masses are like children sitting on social media playing with adults toys like fucking overgrown eight year olds. They have been brainwashed and yes these adults are highly suseptable to suggestion and manipulation especially if they fall into certain groups.

I left CA last year for NW Arizona. State income tax is 3.5% compared to over 9 in CA. My gas costs are 70 to 90 cents less PER GALLON than across the river in CA. Housing costs are comparable or even less than the Inland Empire in So CA. Property tax seems comparable to what I paid in CA. I don't see the state or municipalities in as much financial trouble as those in CA or NV. Las Vegas is a quick drive and Laughlin is even closer! I do miss CA, but I figure it is an irrational emotional problem that I will eventually get over. BTW, my state taxes in CA last year were about $30,000.

Strategic Renter says

I came here 2 years ago thinking this was the best state in the US and I had always dreamed of living here.
Well guess what it just isn't that good. The beaches are not as good as Florida's with the nice calm and warm gulf. The taxes here are killing me. My california taxes alone will pay the rent in most other states. gasoline high, Too many illegals ruining the schools and people begging everywhere.
I have now decided to leave and go to Henderson in Nevada which has just been voted the second most safe city in the US. With vegas on the doorstep I will never be stuck for something to do and the added benefit I will be able to buy a huge house to fit my 12x6 snooker table in and have a swimming pool.
California is living in a beach boys past and I am sorry to say it has had its day. You suckers who pay so much to live in a shack can have it

Strategic Renter - where in CA are you living? It sounds like you are in SoCal.

Florida can be nice, but I don't consider it's beaches nicer than CA. Sure it's warmer over there, but my guess is that you've never been to Big Sur, Pfeiffer State Beach, Morro Bay, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Ocean Beach in SF...

It seems like you are strictly concerned with buying a house/cost of living - rather than quality of life.

The taxes out here do bother me, rent isn't too bad, but work pays pretty decent and we're a pretty out-door type family - which is one of the reasons we love it out here. Surfing, biking, hiking, skiing, almost any time of the year. We live exactly one mile from the ocean.

Regarding illegals... ever been to Miami?

Sure Nevada may be cheap, and yes, you can probably buy a giant stucco box with a pool - but you're also in the middle of the desert, in a hot dry climate, with probably not much to do other than go to Vegas. You can trek over to CA... But if you're looking for cost of living, you may want to try some of the "less dry, less hot states" with more industry. Even the east coast.

To each his own - good luck with your decision.

As a W2, you gain about 10% take home pay (after taxes) by moving to Washington State over California. It might be higher if you move to Nevada or Texas.

But remember, Arizona is an evil place filled with racial profiling! ;-)

freak80 says

But remember, Arizona is an evil place filled with racial profiling! ;-)

One of the reasons I have considered the place.

The beaches in California are a joke--over-parked, over crowded, sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold. If you surf, CA beaches might be great.

I've spent a lot of time in Henderson. It's okay; I don't think anybody would suffer there. But it is very much a second-rate suburbia that reminds me of a lot of suburbs I've been through that had poorly cared for landscaping, dirty streets, and empty commercial lots between strip plazas.

There's a strip on East Sunset over by Green Valley Pkwy that has some representative depressing suburban dining choices. . . .

California is a shithole. Unfortunately, it's the shithole with all the major IT companies except Microsoft. Florida's IT industry sucks. There's no company of the caliber of Google down here and no reason for such a company to move down here. If you're good at software development, you're a big fish in a very little pond.

Still, even the lure of Silicon Valley isn't enough to get me to move to that cesspool of dirty hippies, inbred cowboys, Paris Hilton wannabes, and Jersey Shore rejects. Let a hungry Carpathian long-haired she-wolf blow your dick, California! Suck butter from my ass!

Philistine says

The beaches in California are a joke--over-parked, over crowded, sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold. If you surf, CA beaches might be great.

Yes, this is very true about California beaches they are very overrated they are just dreary gray cold shite sand land cutoffs. Frankly the beaches of Florida are some of the best in the world. Unfortunately, it isn't what it once was I would rather be on them 30 years ago than today.

Dan8267 says

California is a shithole. Unfortunately, it's the shithole with all the major IT companies except Microsoft. Florida's IT industry sucks. There's no company of the caliber of Google down here and no reason for such a company to move down here. If you're good at software development, you're a big fish in a very little pond.

Still, even the lure of Silicon Valley isn't enough to get me to move to that cesspool of dirty hippies, inbred cowboys, Paris Hilton wannabes, and Jersey Shore rejects. Let a hungry Carpathian long-haired she-wolf blow your dick, California! Suck butter from my ass!

How do we spell Digital Domain? I hope that isn't an indication of what Florida IT is about.

Reader says

The beaches in California are a joke--over-parked, over crowded, sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold. If you surf, CA beaches might be great.

Yes, this is very true about California beaches they are very overrated they are just dreary gray cold shite sand land cutoffs. Frankly the beaches of Florida are some of the best in the world. Unfortunately, it isn't what it once was I would rather be on them 30 years ago than today.

It's pretty obvious you haven't traveled the coast.

Both of those statements were just stupid (except for the water is cold part).

Reader says

Yes, South Florida is THE Southern CA of the East Coast.

If it parallels SoCal then you should buy Real Estate there right?

joshuatrio says

Reader says

The beaches in California are a joke--over-parked, over crowded, sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold. If you surf, CA beaches might be great.

Yes, this is very true about California beaches they are very overrated they are just dreary gray cold shite sand land cutoffs. Frankly the beaches of Florida are some of the best in the world. Unfortunately, it isn't what it once was I would rather be on them 30 years ago than today.

It's pretty obvious you haven't traveled the coast.

Both of those statements were just stupid (except for the water is cold part).

I see and you are the arbiter of all that is stupid?

I've lived in both, my family has owned property in both. I know what I have seen. Have you driven the coast of both? I have.

Michael Cooke says

Reader says

Yes, South Florida is THE Southern CA of the East Coast.

If it parallels SoCal then you should buy Real Estate there right?

I wouldn't buy in FL anymore than CA.

Reader says

I see and you are the arbiter of all that is stupid?

I've lived in both, my family has owned property in both. I know what I have seen. Have you driven the coast of both? I have.

Yes I have. Spent a considerable amount of time in FL with family in Miami and West Palm, and have been out west for almost 5 years.

Sure, SoCal is a cesspool, but the coastline and beaches beyond LA going North are gorgeous.

bgamall4 says

I hate Texas politics. I don't know if I could live in the same state where George W Bush lives.

or where they killed the last president of our republic and got away with it!

joshuatrio says

Reader says

I see and you are the arbiter of all that is stupid?

I've lived in both, my family has owned property in both. I know what I have seen. Have you driven the coast of both? I have.

Yes I have. Spent a considerable amount of time in FL with family in Miami and West Palm, and have been out west for almost 5 years.

Sure, SoCal is a cesspool, but the coastline and beaches beyond LA going North are gorgeous.

Agreed.

Reader says

How do we spell Digital Domain? I hope that isn't an indication of what Florida IT is about.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/Can-West-Palm-Beach-keep-tent-site/nSQQf/

The sad thing about south Florida is that there are too few IT firms and the ones there are of low quality, so many competent developers leave, and then the firms that are there can't find competent people, so they scale back and outsource, so more competent people leave. It's a vicious cycle that started in 2001 with the Dot Com bust.

I'm one of the lucky ones. I've been contracting well in the area, but I know a lot of people who have been out of work for more than a year, and a few that haven't done IT in several years and think they are in forced early retirement. Age discrimination runs rampant in IT here. If you're in your fifties, forget about finding a job as a developer. And if you've been out of work for more than a month, no one is going to hire you because they think you must be bad if no one else did. It ends up terminating people's career if they have one bad streak.

It's really a shame because things were so different in the 1990s. Everyone was optimistic and excited about building the Internet and making the world a better place by making information flow freely and giving every person a voice. Now everyone is paranoid and depressed, and office politics rules every company. Low level managers are deathly afraid of being outshined by their subordinates so innovation is rarely welcomed.

Dan8267 says

It's really a shame because things were so different in the 1990s. Everyone was optimistic and excited about building the Internet and making the world a better place by making information flow freely and giving every person a voice. Now everyone is paranoid and depressed, and office politics rules every company. Low level managers are deathly afraid of being outshined by their subordinates so innovation is rarely welcomed.

I know someone in IT who is in FL and yes that is what he says too. But that applies to most companies today. The problem I find is that there are too many low level managers who really need to be let go. Corporations especially have taken on too many so-called managers most of whom could not find their ass with both hands.

Let the shite hit the fan let the chips fall where they may. In all the strongest survive that is all you need to remember at the end of the day that is the Truth.

I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area in the 1960s and my family fled for Carson City, Nevada, in 1972, for all the reasons the disenchanted former Californians above are giving. I returned in 2007 and have lived in southern California ever since. This state has not changed as much as you might think; the drawbacks and the benefits are much the same as they were forty years ago, except for the horrendous state budget (hardly unique to California), and the strains involved in adjusting to a large immigrant population.

Philistine says

sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold.

Sounds like Lake Erie. Except saltier.

freak80 says

Philistine says

sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold.

Sounds like Lake Erie. Except saltier.

LOL

NO no visually there are parts of coastal CA that are stunning especially around Pebble Beach.

johndavis says

the drawbacks and the benefits are much the same as they were forty years ago, except for the horrendous state budget (hardly unique to California), and the strains involved in adjusting to a large immigrant population.

Those are horrendous and major drawbacks to what CA once was.

Reader says

visually there are parts of coastal CA that are stunning

Absolutely.

I want to drive the Pacific Coast Highway at some point.

Reader says

there are too many low level managers who really need to be let go.

Any good developer doesn't need to be managed. A person becomes a good software developer by loving programming, design, and architecture. Such a person doesn't need to be threatened with a whip to perform. He's self-motivated.

What he needs is the freedom to do the job the best way even if it means not taking shortcuts. Cutting corners always bites you in the ass later on.

I wish home builders had as much concern about quality and customer satisfaction that good developers have.

Reader says

freak80 says

Philistine says

sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold.

Sounds like Lake Erie. Except saltier.

LOL

NO no visually there are parts of coastal CA that are stunning especially around Pebble Beach.

Again, it depends where you're at.

Pebble is beautiful yes, the Ocean bottom (Carmel area) is a white, powder sandy bottom. Ghost trees is much rockier.

If you go more into the Monterey Bay, it's a more coarse tan sand. Head up to Santa Cruz and it's a rock bottom, with giant slabs of rock under neath your feet all the way out into the bay. Which is why the surf is so consistent.

Dan8267 says

Reader says

there are too many low level managers who really need to be let go.

Any good developer doesn't need to be managed. A person becomes a good software developer by loving programming, design, and architecture. Such a person doesn't need to be threatened with a whip to perform. He's self-motivated.

What he needs is the freedom to do the job the best way even if it means not taking shortcuts. Cutting corners always bites you in the ass later on.

I wish home builders had as much concern about quality and customer satisfaction that good developers have.

I cannot disagree one bit. Again, these firms need to 1. Cut gross overpayment to executives. 2. Let the smart people do their thing especially IT without some stupid bitch accountant or business graduate who doesn't know a computer from a can of hairspray trying to "manage" them.

Reader says

Let the smart people do their thing especially IT without some stupid bitch accountant or business graduate who doesn't know a computer from a can of hairspray trying to "manage" them.

Why do you hate America? ;-)

Reader says

First Amendment Rights are the famous Democratic cry and strong hold but in all honesty they do apply to all. Don't throw her into my mix. I would speak my mind civil rights or not.
I don't speak due to my civil rights I speak as a man who isn't going to be manipulated or pulled into shite.

You were the one making a deal about it being a free country, when I pointed out something different. That is classic Sarah Palin. First amendment means-both of us get to speak our minds-not just you.

lostand confused says

You were the one making a deal about it being a free country, when I pointed out something different. That is classic Sarah Palin. First amendment means-both of us get to speak our minds-not just you.

But your speech is Hate Speech. Why? Because I said so, that's why.

johndavis says

the drawbacks and the benefits are much the same as they were forty years ago, except for the horrendous state budget (hardly unique to California), and the strains involved in adjusting to a large immigrant population.

Isn't unemployment in CA higher (in relative terms) when compared to 40 years ago?

lostand confused says

Reader says

First Amendment Rights are the famous Democratic cry and strong hold but in all honesty they do apply to all. Don't throw her into my mix. I would speak my mind civil rights or not.

I don't speak due to my civil rights I speak as a man who isn't going to be manipulated or pulled into shite.

You were the one making a deal about it being a free country, when I pointed out something different. That is classic Sarah Palin. First amendment means-both of us get to speak our minds-not just you.

I see NOW, you are one of those who do the famous didactic routine typical of your kind.

What is this Act One? Or Two?

freak80 says

Absolutely.
I want to drive the Pacific Coast Highway at some point

It's beautiful. Socal section is different , populated. Then it merges witht he 101 and then separates again. I personally prefer the Highway one of Sonoma coast and Mendocino, before it curves back into the 101. Lot less crowded. on a weekeday, you cna have all the beach to yourself.

But anywhere north of Santa barbara, the wind starts. But I love the varying terrain. Nothing beats looking down the ocean from a 1000ft above and watching the ships go by or the little cars driving by in PCH.