patrick.net

Strategic Renter says

Yes I am bitter because I believed the lie about California being the state to live. It has cost me a great deal of money and I wish I would have gone straight to Nevada 2 years ago.
I made it before I got here old son so that is a very shallow assumption considering I have also wrote of the obscene Ca state tax I have paid.
Again it is people like you that have to justify the reason for staying that keeps the myth alive.

You gotta do what you gotta do. The last few years, I have spent outside CA and even abroad. The software gigs I got outside were actually paying the same or even slightly better than what I was being offered. I am finally back. The housing is still obscene and before 2000, there was not this much difference between CA and other places. Yes, some premium, but not like this.

But home is where the heart is. I still think that at some point, real estate in CA will correct. nothing goes up or down in a stratight line, there are always bounces in the opposing directions.

But I am seeing good signs in CA. Before taking this job, I interviewed for several others and the rates were pretty good-better than what I was being offered in the mid west. Two years ago, I was offered a gig for less than what I was already being paid in the mid west. LOL!!! Yeah right.. I was even considering taking up farming-my family is farming roots and still have cousins who farm.

But things seem to be improving- at least based on my interviewing and my friend circles. Housing is still horrendous-but otherwise it is nice.

But hey, if NV is calling then fine-if you have a job. Housing is low-but the job situation is not good. But again I don't know what field you are in-my colleague just got a long term software federal contract in NV. So it depends. But good luck to you.

CA -especially socal-can be hard on people who come with illusions. It is filled with dashed hopes of aspiring actors turned porn stars or trophy wife/husband. It is a wild world. if you have a reality check and take it for what is-warts and all- then you should be fine.

At the rates I was being offered back then, I knew I couldn't live comfortably and went were the money and cost of living made sense. But now it seems to be coming back, I am back.

I still feel hosuing , especially in the coast and now rents is massively inflated, but all things fall. If I don't buy a house now, fine- I do have a ton of savings/investments and no debt-so one can always go retire in a tropical destination! That is of course assuming the dollar will still be worth something!!

Politicofact says

California is great if your earning 250k a year and have minimum debt.

Most, unfortunately live beyond there means in CA and it shows.

California is great if you're making $150,000 a year and not living beyond your means.

Goran_K says

Politicofact says

California is great if your earning 250k a year and have minimum debt.

Most, unfortunately live beyond there means in CA and it shows.

California is great if you're making $150,000 a year and not living beyond your means.

I know people making 50k a year and are very happy. Granted they bought their home a while ago, but keeping up with the Joneses can be very contagious.

Depending on where you live CA has allot to offer. So what if all the positives comes with a few negatives?

Florida has ALLOT of positives. It's clean and has a higher standard of living with low taxes. The property tax in Miami is a flat 1%. It doesn't get much better than that.

However FL simply doesn't have the economy and choices CA has. And North FL and South FL are two different worlds.

The taxes in CA are atrocious. If you are single and make $70,000.00 per year in CA your pay after taxes (which is the only thing that matters) is $49,864.31. If you are single and make $84,000.00 per year in CA your take home pay is $59,000.00/yr. Google CA paycheck calculator and see how much they steal from you.

In Florida you make more after taxes and your quality of life in HOUSING is higher. You will not find a beach on the entire CA coastline as clean as the Gulf or East Coast of Florida. But Florida simply does not have the economy people and large scale opportunities CA has. Orlando is the best North Florida has to offer and doesn't even have a small fraction of what Los Angeles, San Francisco, or San Diego offers.

If I worked for someone else I would probably leave CA. In FL I could easily own a house for what I rent here.

However since I work for myself I will stay in CA because this is where the economy and the money is.

War says

FL has a serious serious crime problem.

Compared to CA?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/k2jct2kIX1I

Florida? Are you kidding me? The first thing you see driving in to the state is billboards advertising help for gambling debts and child paternity tests. Charming. There is a reason OJ Simpson moved there. Every scoundrel in the world that has cheated someone and is being hunted by the law moves there to avoid debt collection.

How well do you really know that state? My friend lives in DelRay beach, near Boca Raton. Went to his wedding and all the guys at the bachelor party told me how much they hated living in Florida. My friend told me he has to look for a private school for his daughter because the schools are atrocious in Florida. My former business partner left Miami Beach because he ended up hating the people. And mind you those are very nice areas. The only place I could see living there is the panhandle, near Destin, BP oil spill and all. The rest of the state is full of rednecks in the north, and NY/NJ retirees in the south. Yuck.

Nevada is no better. I spent a good amount of time in Vegas, especially in places like Henderson, which is like a bad version of suburbia. I met a woman who serves in the state assembly and was telling her about how bad CA's finances were, and she thought it was child's play. They have had to slash their budgets by 45-50% since the economic downturn.

I can see moving to a place like NC, or Austin. No Florida or Nevada for me. I like living in So Cal near the beach. Schools are excellent in our area, and weather phenomenal. Yes, it is crowded and expensive, two big drawbacks. However, every day living here is like a vacation, and I have lived here going on 15 years. I am the envy of my friends and family back in the Midwest. I've lived in MO, MI, MN, GA, WI, CO, the Northeast, and now here. This is home.

As for your "article', it is a libertarian hackpiece, advocating that California should cut taxes or risk losing its population. The "story", appearing on FoxNews.com, has a slant bagging on California. Dubious "news" outlet to start with, then, it quotes a report by the Manhattan Institute. Guess who funds the Manhattan Institute? The Koch Brothers, that's who...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Institute_for_Policy_Research Also quotes Joel Kotkin who works for...the Cato Institute. Guess who funds the Cato Institute? The same Koch Brothers! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute

Do you seriously believe everything you read?

Have fun in Nevada!!!

CA sure has it's share of the problems. Illegals, horrible union ran schools that are overwhelmed by illegals. High taxes, high cost of living.

And it ain't all that great elsewhere either. On paper grass is always greener on the other side, but it sure doesn't work out that way for everyone.

You can check-out anytime you like...

Waitingtobuy says

I like living in So Cal near the beach. Schools are excellent in our area, and weather phenomenal.

You mean one of those thin shells of affluence along the beaches and hills encasing 250 square miles of ghettos and third world warlords in LA? Hope you have your go fast boat provisioned and ready to head out at a moment' notice. LA is like a big zit waiting to pop. No place to go but the waves if you are on the ocean, unless they start building Hadrian's Walls all over the city.

Ceffer says

Waitingtobuy says

I like living in So Cal near the beach. Schools are excellent in our area, and weather phenomenal.

You mean one of those thin shells of affluence along the beaches and hills encasing 250 square miles of ghettos and third world warlords in LA? Hope you have your go fast boat provisioned and ready to head out at a moment' notice. LA is like a big zit waiting to pop. No place to go but the waves if you are on the ocean, unless they start building Hadrian's Walls all over the city.

Growing up in a top LA neighborhood and seeing the vast decline this is VERY well-said.

Waitingtobuy says

My friend told me he has to look for a private school for his daughter because the schools are atrocious in Florida. My former business partner left Miami Beach because he ended up hating the people. And mind you those are very nice areas. The only place I could see living there is the panhandle, near Destin, BP oil spill and all. The rest of the state is full of rednecks in the north, and NY/NJ retirees in the south. Yuck.

Yes, South Florida is THE Southern CA of the East Coast.

lostand confused says

Goran_K says

Politicofact says

California is great if your earning 250k a year and have minimum debt.

Most, unfortunately live beyond there means in CA and it shows.

California is great if you're making $150,000 a year and not living beyond your means.

I know people making 50k a year and are very happy. Granted they bought their home a while ago, but keeping up with the Joneses can be very contagious.

The average income in CA is not even 50K it's all smoke and mirrors bullshite. If it wasn't for Prop 13 none of the original people left would be there still.

Sometimes bitterness eats away at the soul. Best to let go-no place or person is worth it.

lostand confused says

Sometimes bitterness eats away at the soul. Best to let go-no place or person is worth it.

Typical wacko CA talk to me no wonder you are "lost and confused."

Reader says

lostand confused says

Sometimes bitterness eats away at the soul. Best to let go-no place or person is worth it.

Typical wacko CA talk to me no wonder you are "lost and confused."

Reader

LOL!!! Touchy aren't we. You gotta go through what you gotta go through. Hope you find some peace. Life is too short.

lostand confused says

Reader says

lostand confused says

Sometimes bitterness eats away at the soul. Best to let go-no place or person is worth it.

Typical wacko CA talk to me no wonder you are "lost and confused."

Reader

LOL!!! Touchy aren't we. You gotta go through what you gotta go through. Hope you find some peace. Life is too short.

I don't really care honestly. I am not in housing debt this isn't a touchy subject with me but people bullshitting and brainwashing innocent people to go into debt just to make money off them IS.

So go watch some spinning coloured light, chant and maybe have a warm fuzzy spiritual circle of love with your multi-cultural CA neighbours ...serve Kool Aid.

You say you don't care. But you left CA and you have been bashing it ever since. If you don't care, you obviously wouldn't be doing it.

As for your childish insults-teenage girls can do better.

lostand confused says

but people bullshitting and brainwashing innocent people to go into debt just to make money off them IS.

I explained clearly.

"...but people bullshitting and brainwashing innocent people to go into debt just to make money off them IS. "

I can bash CA all I damn well please. I grew up there and I saw the shite happen first hand. IT IS STILL AMERICA AND A FREE COUNTRY THANK YOU.

So you assume people are innocent and incapabale of making decisions for themselves? You seem to confuse grown adults with little children.

Hmm where have I heard this before-I can say whatever I want, but if someone says an opposing view or contradicts me, my first amendment rights are being attacked-LOL-oh yes Sarah Palin.

bgamall4 says

Wage earners who are not living multigenerationally would be better off in NW Arkansas where you can rent a two bedroom apartment with all the amenities for under 500 bucks a month

LOl!! A lot of the places I have lived in the mid west are similar. Under 800 bucks gives you a nice, decent two bedroom . I can't even find a studio in a decent area here for that price. I hear from friends that even Houston is similar.

bgamall4 says

Strategic Renter says

I was waiting for that inane comment. If that is the best you can do to defend California then I pity you. I was not asking to be missed just making a comment pertaining to the story you sad person.

So far, the big advantage in Las Vegas is housing inventory. But the problem is, over 50 percent of sales are cash. Big money will find a way to screw Las Vegas as well.

If you live multigenerationally you probably are immune to the wealthy gobbling up the inventory. If you are on your own and are just a regular wage earner, you are screwed here and in California.

Wage earners who are not living multigenerationally would be better off in NW Arkansas where you can rent a two bedroom apartment with all the amenities for under 500 bucks a month.

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

and that is ALL a two bedroom apartment should be ANYWHERE.

Wait. There are still middle class people living in California?

freak80 says

Wait. There are still middle class people living in California?

JEEZ I get the pun but lose the word CLASS it has nothing to do with economic standing.

Ok, "middle income" people.

Waitingtobuy says

I can see moving to a place like NC, or Austin.

You and everyone else.

So how long until those places become hell holes?

Didn't you know this already about CA before you moved there two years ago?

I just moved from Santa Monica to Seattle. Two kids and a third on the way forced the issue. My income is pretty good for Santa Monica but I couldn't find an acceptable home in a decent school district for anything close to an acceptable amount of debt.

I intended to rent for a year or two in Seattle, but the economics were better for buying and I bought twice the house for half the money (almost literally).

Seattle. The only place in the lower 48 which is cloudier than where I live!

But at least there's no snow.

grendel says

I just moved from Santa Monica to Seattle. Two kids and a third on the way forced the issue. My income is pretty good for Santa Monica but I couldn't find an acceptable home in a decent school district for anything close to an acceptable amount of debt.

I intended to rent for a year or two in Seattle, but the economics were better for buying and I bought twice the house for half the money (almost literally).

I feel for your situation because I know when I was in school in Santa Monica things were already falling apart. You yourself know living there how overrated and overpriced the place is so I won't get into that. Friends who are an old family living off Ocean North of Wilshire have told me that there is only a small sliver of Santa Monica left that is livable and that is so grossly overpriced most are leaving who haven't left already. You made the right move if you have children in my view. I remember as I have said before when Santa Monica High School was one of the three in demand along with Culver City and Beverly Hills but I must say even in the 80s one could see the Santa Monica gang issue and the line up of them all and their relatives on Pico when school let out. Even Santa Monica College is another world from what it was pre 1993. I am just ranting on because I personally understand your sitation and why you did what you did. I support your decision for many reasons mentioned and unmentioned.

lostand confused says

first amendment rights

First Amendment Rights are the famous Democratic cry and strong hold but in all honesty they do apply to all. Don't throw her into my mix. I would speak my mind civil rights or not.

I don't speak due to my civil rights I speak as a man who isn't going to be manipulated or pulled into shite.

lostand confused says

So you assume people are innocent and incapabale of making decisions for themselves? You seem to confuse grown adults with little children.

I hate to inform you "Lost and Confused" people today the masses are like children sitting on social media playing with adults toys like fucking overgrown eight year olds. They have been brainwashed and yes these adults are highly suseptable to suggestion and manipulation especially if they fall into certain groups.

I left CA last year for NW Arizona. State income tax is 3.5% compared to over 9 in CA. My gas costs are 70 to 90 cents less PER GALLON than across the river in CA. Housing costs are comparable or even less than the Inland Empire in So CA. Property tax seems comparable to what I paid in CA. I don't see the state or municipalities in as much financial trouble as those in CA or NV. Las Vegas is a quick drive and Laughlin is even closer! I do miss CA, but I figure it is an irrational emotional problem that I will eventually get over. BTW, my state taxes in CA last year were about $30,000.

Strategic Renter says

I came here 2 years ago thinking this was the best state in the US and I had always dreamed of living here.
Well guess what it just isn't that good. The beaches are not as good as Florida's with the nice calm and warm gulf. The taxes here are killing me. My california taxes alone will pay the rent in most other states. gasoline high, Too many illegals ruining the schools and people begging everywhere.
I have now decided to leave and go to Henderson in Nevada which has just been voted the second most safe city in the US. With vegas on the doorstep I will never be stuck for something to do and the added benefit I will be able to buy a huge house to fit my 12x6 snooker table in and have a swimming pool.
California is living in a beach boys past and I am sorry to say it has had its day. You suckers who pay so much to live in a shack can have it

Strategic Renter - where in CA are you living? It sounds like you are in SoCal.

Florida can be nice, but I don't consider it's beaches nicer than CA. Sure it's warmer over there, but my guess is that you've never been to Big Sur, Pfeiffer State Beach, Morro Bay, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Ocean Beach in SF...

It seems like you are strictly concerned with buying a house/cost of living - rather than quality of life.

The taxes out here do bother me, rent isn't too bad, but work pays pretty decent and we're a pretty out-door type family - which is one of the reasons we love it out here. Surfing, biking, hiking, skiing, almost any time of the year. We live exactly one mile from the ocean.

Regarding illegals... ever been to Miami?

Sure Nevada may be cheap, and yes, you can probably buy a giant stucco box with a pool - but you're also in the middle of the desert, in a hot dry climate, with probably not much to do other than go to Vegas. You can trek over to CA... But if you're looking for cost of living, you may want to try some of the "less dry, less hot states" with more industry. Even the east coast.

To each his own - good luck with your decision.

As a W2, you gain about 10% take home pay (after taxes) by moving to Washington State over California. It might be higher if you move to Nevada or Texas.

But remember, Arizona is an evil place filled with racial profiling! ;-)

freak80 says

But remember, Arizona is an evil place filled with racial profiling! ;-)

One of the reasons I have considered the place.

The beaches in California are a joke--over-parked, over crowded, sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold. If you surf, CA beaches might be great.

I've spent a lot of time in Henderson. It's okay; I don't think anybody would suffer there. But it is very much a second-rate suburbia that reminds me of a lot of suburbs I've been through that had poorly cared for landscaping, dirty streets, and empty commercial lots between strip plazas.

There's a strip on East Sunset over by Green Valley Pkwy that has some representative depressing suburban dining choices. . . .

California is a shithole. Unfortunately, it's the shithole with all the major IT companies except Microsoft. Florida's IT industry sucks. There's no company of the caliber of Google down here and no reason for such a company to move down here. If you're good at software development, you're a big fish in a very little pond.

Still, even the lure of Silicon Valley isn't enough to get me to move to that cesspool of dirty hippies, inbred cowboys, Paris Hilton wannabes, and Jersey Shore rejects. Let a hungry Carpathian long-haired she-wolf blow your dick, California! Suck butter from my ass!

Philistine says

The beaches in California are a joke--over-parked, over crowded, sand quality is like rocks, water is too cold. If you surf, CA beaches might be great.

Yes, this is very true about California beaches they are very overrated they are just dreary gray cold shite sand land cutoffs. Frankly the beaches of Florida are some of the best in the world. Unfortunately, it isn't what it once was I would rather be on them 30 years ago than today.

Dan8267 says

California is a shithole. Unfortunately, it's the shithole with all the major IT companies except Microsoft. Florida's IT industry sucks. There's no company of the caliber of Google down here and no reason for such a company to move down here. If you're good at software development, you're a big fish in a very little pond.

Still, even the lure of Silicon Valley isn't enough to get me to move to that cesspool of dirty hippies, inbred cowboys, Paris Hilton wannabes, and Jersey Shore rejects. Let a hungry Carpathian long-haired she-wolf blow your dick, California! Suck butter from my ass!

How do we spell Digital Domain? I hope that isn't an indication of what Florida IT is about.