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How to fix education?


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2012 Nov 9, 3:36pm   158,939 views  91 comments

by Peter P   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

Just some ideas...

1) Encourage at least one parent to stay home and raise the kids
2) Dissociate school assignment from residency
3) Teach kids to find passions, ask questions, and get answers with help
4) De-emphasize higher education for all except specialized areas

What else? Throwing money at a failure will only turn it into an expensive failure.

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61   Nobody   2012 Dec 4, 2:20am  

Peter P says

I think only people with time and money should have kids. Honestly, I cannot afford kids.

That is your opinion. You have no solution for the current problem. I have just edited more.

62   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 2:22am  

BTW, the costs of raising kids are kept unnecessarily high:

1. cost of child-care (or even higher opportunity cost)
2. cost of baby-sitters (or bad quality of life)
3. cost of education (school district or private school)
4. too much regulations (e.g. car seats, etc)

63   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 2:26am  

Nobody says

In a mean time, what would you do about the EXITING kids whose parents can't invest their time and MONEY? What do you do about the reality? Just cut the tax and budget for school?

They are mistakes. Some of them can be inspired enough to do good stuff. The rest will have to be handled by LE.

For the long term, cap-and-trade birth permits can solve a lot of problems. From "AGW" to overcrowding to world hunger.

64   Nobody   2012 Dec 4, 2:28am  

Peter P says

BTW, the costs of raising kids are kept unnecessarily high:

So what? We are living in a system where the rich is in a position to milk more money from the middle class. Didn't you know that by now?

Your short-sightedness amazes me. You are not offering any solution. The thread is "How to fix education?" Not screw those kids whose parents happened to be poor.

65   Nobody   2012 Dec 4, 2:30am  

Peter P says

They are mistakes. Some of them can be inspired enough to do good stuff. The rest will have to be handled by LE.

Your ignorance amazes me. Do you even know how much it would cost tax payers to execute? It is in our best interest to give right education to the kids, so they can be the contributing member of the society, not a criminal.

66   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 2:34am  

Fixing education can mean that we cannot have a one-size-fits-all solution. Education does not have to be an extension of the all-people-are-equal-but-some-are-more-equal-than-others worldview.

If we are honest to ourselves, equality cannot be forced and it needs not be manifested in education.

A lot of problems in education come from the reality that capable families are less incentivized to have kids than incapable families. This means it will only get worse.

67   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 2:37am  

Nobody says

Do you even know how much it would cost tax payers to execute? It is in our best interest to give right education to the kids, so they can be the contributing member of the society, not a criminal.

We need prison reform too. Most criminals should not be incarcerated.

For the same effectiveness, it can be cheaper to increase enforcement and reduce punishment.

And you think the right education can necessarily make kids contributing members of the society? Family upbringing is even more important.

68   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 2:42am  

Look, if we can reduce childbirths from these two groups the world will be much better:

1. kids produced because the parents failed to use contraception
2. kids produced because the parents thought they were expected to have kids

Only people who want kids should have kids. Then they can make time and money for the kids. I love food, so I have expensive 3-hour dinners. Lifestyle choice.

69   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 3:08am  

michaelsch says

This is a huge problem for most of "developed" countries, they can't survive without importing population and a lot of it.

Importing population is arguably better because you get a self-selected group of people who want to do better. With welfare reform, it is possible to open the borders.

70   michaelsch   2012 Dec 4, 3:10am  

Peter P says

Look, if we can reduce childbirths from these two groups the world will be much better:

1. kids produced because the parents failed to use contraception

2. kids produced because the parents thought they were expected to have kids

Only people who want kids should have kids. Then they can make time and money for the kids. I love food, so I have expensive 3-hour dinners. Lifestyle choice.

It simply does not work this way. Europe has implemented this and now it's in the worst crisis. The demographic one, which is worse than the Euro crisis and anything else they messed up. They have ended up with a huge senile population and nobody to support them.

71   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 3:13am  

Europe needs to fix its entitlement system and open its borders.

Unwanted children are more likely to be a net liability when they grow up.

Defined-benefit retirement systems are fragile and are unsustainable.

72   michaelsch   2012 Dec 4, 3:23am  

Peter P says

Unwanted children are more likely to be a net liability when they grow up.

Well, you obviously have no kids. In 99% of the cases unwanted children turn to very much wanted as the parents get acquainted with them, and vise versa, some parents who wanted kids, often turn into disappointed bad parents.
This is one thing you no very little about untill you get into it.Peter P says

Europe needs to fix its entitlement system and open its borders.

It has nothing to do with the entitlement system. Their entitlement system is about redistributing wealth. Their problem is that their society can't be productive. BTW, the worst problem is in ex-cathoilic countries like Italy and Spain.

73   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 3:29am  

michaelsch says

In 99% of the cases unwanted children turn to very much wanted as the parents get acquainted with them, and vise versa, some parents who wanted kids, often turn into disappointed bad parents.

I have friends who truly want kids. They jump through many hoops just to have a child.

I also know people who have kids because their parents had kids. They somehow convinced themselves that kids are the greatest thing on earth. (Escalation of commitment?)

Kind of like homeownership.

74   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 3:30am  

michaelsch says

Their entitlement system is about redistributing wealth. Their problem is that their society can't be productive.

You answered your own question.

A government has no business re-distributing wealth. It ought to safe-guard the market against excessive rent-seeking instead.

75   Nobody   2012 Dec 4, 11:29am  

Peter P says

And you think the right education can necessarily make kids contributing members of the society? Family upbringing is even more important.

Well, you are the proof of what I am saying.

Are you this ignorant? Without education, even the right upbringing just goes to hell. I suppose in your own little world, the right upbringing is all you need. For the rest of the world, the education is the most integral part of success.

Peter P says

Fixing education can mean that we cannot have a one-size-fits-all solution.

Unfortunately, we have to. Don't you know this by now? I am amazed how immature your thought process is. Are you a stay home jr. high school student?

76   Nobody   2012 Dec 4, 11:29am  

michaelsch says

Well, you obviously have no kids.

Micheal,

How can a kid have a child?

77   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 12:12pm  

Nobody says

Unfortunately, we have to. Don't you know this by now? I am amazed how immature your thought process is. Are you a stay home jr. high school student?

I don't know... nothing is more important than questioning the system. Education sure as hell will NOT do that. Schools focus too much on practical knowledge and they do not teach kids the need to design their own value system.

78   Peter P   2012 Dec 4, 12:44pm  

Nobody says

How can a kid have a child?

LOL, I wish I were a kid. Time is a non-renewable resource. I wish I have more.

79   justme   2012 Dec 6, 12:55am  

Dan8267 says

It is Unamerican to model our programs on successful programs from Europe. That's communistic and unpatriotic. If we learn from other countries, it would imply that we're not the greatest country in the world. And maintaining that delusion is more important than solving our problems.

APPLAUSE !!

80   justme   2012 Dec 6, 1:01am  

FortWayne says

- Get rid of unions.
- Allow teachers to be graded on performance.
- Give parents a voucher for 100% of public education costs and let them pick any school they want, forcing public schools to compete for children, not be forced into one based on their location.

Your cluelessness is astounding. How did you get the bizarre idea that student failure is because of the teachers? Student failure is every bit as much about bad students and bad parents as it is about bad teachers.

Yes, there exists some bad teachers, but only the the totally blind believe that bad teachers is THE problem.

FortWayne says

Competition drives capitalism, let the competition be.

Perhaps we should be grading parents and students as much as we grade teachers? You want competition among teachers, how about competition among bad parents and bad students?

81   Bap33   2012 Dec 6, 2:18am  

justme says

You want competition among teachers, how about competition among bad parents and bad students?

Would you agree that most bad students come from bad/lazy parents?
Would you agree that most bad parents are a result of the social conditions brought on by welfare (in all of it's forms) and the erosion of the family unit?

Parents did not dream up the social engineering crap that is laced into education these days. Parents did not dream up the "stop spanking kids" nonsence. Parents did not stop prayer for the start of each school day. Parents did not stop the pledge. Parents did not dream up a system that keeps punks in schools instead of expelled. Parents did not dream up the creation of these quazi-prison style schools where the bad kids go to avoid the school system losing the per-child-funding. Parents, good parents, have had to put up with the erosion of the education system. Parents, good parents, are not the problem. Students do not raise themselves.

Going to school for 4 extra years, or 6 or 10 or 50 extra years, after HS, DOES NOT MAKE ANYONE A "GOOD" TEACHER!!! It simply meets the qualifications needed by a STUDENT, that were dreamt up by other HIGHLY EDUCATED STUDENTS, to fill the position at a school called "teacher". The entire education system focus is on being a friggin STUDENT. A student of the system, the belief system, the desired outcome, the culture, the educational complex .... all they want are more STUDENTS. There is no desire to find a true educator. A person who reaches into the soul of a young person and stirs a desire to know something, and then retain what they are exposed to for a lifetime.

Yes, parents and students have a roll. but the truth is, the Big Education Complex is what is wrong with America's HS grads. Bad students are not grads, they are pre-homeless or pre-prisoners.

82   justme   2012 Dec 6, 3:46am  

Bap33 says

Would you agree that most bad students come from bad/lazy parents?

There is some correlation, but it is not 1.0

Bap33 says

Would you agree that most bad parents are a result of the social conditions brought on by welfare (in all of it's forms)

Absolutely NOT. I'd rather say that bad parenting correlates strongly with the introduction of the infamous idiot-box, also known as TELEVISION. TV makes you stupid and lazy.

Bap33 says

and the erosion of the family unit?

To some extent. There is a correlation.

83   justme   2012 Dec 6, 3:47am  

Bap33 says

Parents did not dream up the social engineering crap that is laced into education these days.

Such as what? Please be specific.

84   justme   2012 Dec 6, 3:56am  

I have a question: Are there youtube videos that demonstrate the differences between a good and a bad teacher?

I acknowledge that SOME bad teachers exist, and that it would be great if they were all great teachers, but WHAT EXACTLY is it that bad teachers do that make them bad teachers? Please discuss!

My main impression of a bad teacher (from TV news programs, no less) is an excessively talkative woman that prattles non-stop but with very little actual information coming out of her mouth. It seems that there is not enough real information for the kids to absorb, too much spoon-feeding, and not enough quiet time during a lecture to let the information sink in with all the prattling going on(***). Fewer words, more content, more reflection is what is needed.

Am I on the right track, or totally out in the weeds? Please educate me :).

(***) Come to think of it, this style of "communicating" is also prevalent on TV. The other day I watched a clip of Lauren Lyster from a program called Capital Account. She is interviewing Sheila Bair, who I think would make an excellent teacher, whereas Lauren Lyster would drive me absolutely crazy if I had to listen to her even just one day. Scroll forward to the portion where she is talking with Sheila Bair for contrast. Also contrast Lauren Lyster with Charlie Rose, who I think also could be an excellent teacher, someone who teaches people to THINK for themselves rather than just filling space and time with words.

Lest I be accused of being sexist, there are lots of men on TV that are every bit as bad as Lauren Lyster. Especially the "but let me ask you this" crowd on CNBC and Fox.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/L3Jup8yGkZw

85   Bap33   2012 Dec 6, 4:13am  

from a personal point of view, and life experience, and having raised (and raising) kids, I can honestly say that there is a difference in the way male children learn, verse female children. And type-a, vs type-b is different too. I submit that kids should be seperated by sex and personality type, and that may create a classroom envirnoment that allows a teacher to find a "teaching method" that is most effective. The seperation by sex is going on for my daughter's 5th grade class right now, just as a pilot study, and the results show huge improvements for both sexes and the teachers love it.

You are correct about the TV. And the internet. And most other forms of idle time tune-out entertainment. I dont think reading a book is as bad, unless it is a bad book. lol

86   justme   2012 Dec 6, 4:26am  

So it is not the teachers fault, then? But what are the kids going to do when they get out in real life and may have to work with people that do not adhere to their "style"?

On that same note, have you ever heard a parent utter the phrase "my kid just has a different learning style". I don't buy into that concept. Kids need to learn how to learn. Some *small* adjustments in "style" is ok, but the idea that every kid needs a different algorithm is just a smoke screen for the kid being stupid, lazy, misbehaving or all three. And the parents as well.

And seriously, we are going to segregate society by "personality type"? I don't think that is a good idea at all.

87   Nobody   2012 Dec 6, 5:09am  

Peter P says

LOL, I wish I were a kid. Time is a non-renewable resource. I wish I have more.

How can I tell your physical age? I can only infer your other age from reading your posts.

88   justme   2012 Dec 6, 5:12am  

Okay, so no examples at all of what bad teachers do that is wrong?

I mean, come on, we can't label people as bad teachers without SOME sort of indication about what exactly they are doing wrong.

89   justme   2012 Dec 6, 5:25am  

Peter P says

The invisible hand will set the price.

Teachers are not tomatoes in a bin in the market. The free market does NOT always work.

If it was a free market, teachers would also have the right to reject and accept each kid. If the system worked that way, I think teacher pay would soar high above where it is now.

90   justme   2012 Dec 6, 5:32am  

Nobody says

How can I tell your physical age? I can only infer your other age from reading your posts.

Come to Coffee Hour? Peter P was there last time.

91   Peter P   2012 Dec 6, 5:56am  

justme says

Nobody says

How can I tell your physical age? I can only infer your other age from reading your posts.

Come to Coffee Hour? Peter P was there last time.

Not this Saturday though.

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