patrick.net

It is very ironic that the California State Teachers' Retirement System invested a half billion dollars into a fund that Cerberus used to bankroll Freedom Group. That is an almost 7% stake in the company that manufactured the gun used in Newtown.

Call it Crazy says

Based on the above data, it looks like that idea works....

If the above data wasn't an NRA fantasy, you may be right. Of course even then you'd have to factor in all the accidental or "fits of rage" deaths these law-abiding gun owners committed vs the amount of murders they prevented by scaring away intruders with a gun.

You do realize that the great majority of intruders do not want any encounter with armed or disarmed victims.

David Losh says

Did the NRA ask our government to fix another problem?

Fox News and Teabaggers are blind to inconsistency. Astounding.

Call it Crazy says

rooemoore says

You do realize that the great majority of intruders do not want any encounter with armed or disarmed victims.

Exactly why the reason these mentally deranged killers go after soft targets and "gun-free" zones.

When was the last time you heard of a mass murder at a police station, a gun show, a gun range, gun store in this country?

Why do these "nut cases" pick schools, theaters, malls, etc.??

Cops are shot all the time. Are they soft targets?

And then there were two firefighters shot and killed today. Now they have to carry guns, too?

Using your logic, the only way to keep the country safe is to make the whole world a gun show, police station or shooting range. Swell.

Call it Crazy says

When was the last time you heard of a mass murder at a police station,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/police-station-shooting-southfield-michigan-shootout_n_2116162.html

Oh right, not a MASS murder.

Vicente says

Call it Crazy says

When was the last time you heard of a mass murder at a police station,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/police-station-shooting-southfield-michigan-shootout_n_2116162.html

Oh right, not a MASS murder.

And then there is this kind of "Mass shooting":

June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine
monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot
four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two,
before killing himself.

March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace
Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental
patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a
parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.

Liberals are stupid, the once who concentrate on a weapon and not the criminal or mentally ill maniac. And their solution to the problem (ban firearms) will be just as stupid and ineffective as they are.

In my view this horrendous crime (Newtown) was a fluke.

Killing young children ?

It's not all that unlikely that we could do nothing about changing gun laws or beefing up security in schools, and not see something like this again for 50 years or longer.

But, in the long long term, having sensible gun laws regarding assault weapons will change what guns are out there in the distant future.

I heard the NRA guy, Pierre or whatever his name is, on the Sunday morning talk shows saying "we are for what works" as if to suggest that if you don't see an instant impact from a policy that it's worthless.

FortWayne says

Liberals are stupid, the once who concentrate on a weapon and not the criminal or mentally ill maniac.

Yeah, liberals are always boiling things down to a simple sound bite, because they know the other liberals are so stupid that it's all they can understand.

Where as the republicans always frame issues in all of their complexity and nuance, understanding all sides of the argument, and never thinking in terms of one simple rule. (eg Economics: no increases in taxes, gun violence: we can consider anything except gun laws - that's off the table).

Call it Crazy says

[POLICE STATION SHOOTOUT] Not a MASS murder, just a one on one. More information from that story you linked:

.....""Based on the behavior of this individual, my opinion and the opinion of the investigating officers, is that this person was struggling with some very serious internal issues," Hawkins said."

Yes, crazy person with a gun, your point?

Solution: Turn every place we inhabit, into a police station.

I have an idea how to accomplish that. We'll hire all the returning vets from the sandbox to guard schools, malls, libraries, really everywhere. Paying for this will be left as an exercise for the reader. I favor cutting military by 90%. Simple way to pension off existing soldiers.

By the way, for the record, even a majority of NRA members are for reasonable guns laws on such issues as background checks, and limiting the number of bullets in a clip, or drum etc.

The NRA leaders don't even represent their own membership on these issues. It's sort of like COngress. In the fiscal cliff negotiations they don't even represent the typical conservative point of view, which is that taxes on the part of income that's over 250K should be raised.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/gun-owners-frank-luntz_n_1699140.html

But then you have geniuses like FW trying to create an argument where there isn't one, saying that the views of the typical republican are actually the ideas of stupid liberals.

FortWayne says

Liberals are stupid, the once who concentrate on a weapon and not the criminal or mentally ill maniac. And their solution to the problem (ban firearms) will be just as stupid and ineffective as they are.

Yes, stupid like all the other developed countries that have effective gun laws that result in the dramatically lower number of gun deaths. Real morons, those folks.

Call it Crazy says

Gee, that sounds like the perfect, upstanding, mentally sane, responsible firearm owner to me...

Who knows about their mental state. We do know they had a gun.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/CLjNJI54GMM

Apparently FW, LaPierre and other on the dimbulb right hope that some people will believe that its one or the other.

Either tighten gun laws, or take a good look at what can be done on the mental health aspect of this. You can only do one or the other.

Obviously the gun laws are easy compared to dealing with privacy issues, and the fact that many low income people with emotional problems are not even receiving treatment.

But yeah, let's take the easy thing off the table, and focus on the expensive, complicated nearly impossible task of strengthening big brother's ability to watch everyone who ever seeks professional help from psychologists and psychiatrists.

Call it Crazy says

Some of the details about this shooter already have come out. I'll let you do your own research to see what type of upstanding law abiding citizen he was!! It's all about following the laws you know.

Imagine the mayhem he would have caused with a knife...

Call it Crazy says

You think there is only one single solution... Why can't both be done?

No, I was being facetious.

Call it Crazy says

Killings will decrease dramatically, right??

Did you even comprehend the quoted text of mine that you quoted right before saying this ?

What part of "distant future" don't you understand.

And I am not suggesting that there is a panacea, so why respond as if I did.

Call it Crazy says

All the anti-gun folks will be happy with this, right??

Actually a lot of pro gun people will be happy with it too. Again, not a panacea.

FortWayne says

their solution to the problem (ban firearms) will be just as stupid and ineffective as they are.

There was an article today about Israel's gun policies. Israel has gun registration that is good for three years, and you need a medical check up. You also lose your right to privacy so your registration can be cross checked every three months. You also need to show a need to have a gun, because the bulk of the patrols are anti-terrorist. So there is a very strong police, and military presense. Every one is required to do military duty, with training, but that doesn't qualify you to be a gun owner in private life.

The NRA was stupid for ever comparing the proposals they had to Israel. One of the comments made was that Israel didn't have school shooting since they put armed guards in schools.

Israel is on patrol for terrorist activity, and in that process many rights of the individual get sidelined.

I'm just going to say again the NRA should have emphasized the militia aspects of the 2nd Amendment that would call for some common sense dialog about promoting gun safety, and education.

Nothing ensures mastery of subject matter like a teacher with a gun . . .

Next nra speech……………
Arm each fire truck………….
50 MM grenade launcher should do the trick...........
Idiots

Fire trucks are supposed to put out fires, not open fire.

They do need protection though, so maybe police should go with if they're going to bad neighborhoods.

Call it Crazy says

Great idea, return them all home to our soil... guess what, they are already being paid and already have the necessary firearms, which equals zero additional cost.

Then push for that, best of luck.

Aussie Nerd says

Next nra speech……………
Arm each fire truck………….

If you read the story, what gets me is that this guy was a danger. He was released for murder of his grand mother. In October his mother died, who he loved so much, leaving him alone with a sister he hated. She lived in the same house, she had her side of the house, he had the other.

This is the second part of the NRA's nutty reponse. This guy could have been on a National Watch List of the Mentally Ill, but so what? That would have done nothing to stop him.

We need people to be a community. When we see a situation spinning out of control there should be some mechanism to address it.

I've seen in in my own neighborhood where a Viet Nam vet became more, and more out of control. When I went to talk with him his wife was grateful because she didn't know what to do. We got him to the VA, where after about a year of counseling he opened up.

I'm saying that the NRA is asking the government to solve a problem the NRA should be providing solutions for.

The NRA needs to step up to being leaders of good gun ownership.

We need a solution to gun violence, both immediate, and long term.

Biff Baxter says

will this article be moved out of the real estate section

This is posted in the politics forum.

Suddenly several poltical articles are showing up in the real estate forum.

Are things broken or are people spamming (again)?

Biff

Apparently some of the site links were recently modified. The old real estate links I was using no longer work and automatically drive you to the poltical forum. The new links work.

I deleted my original comment.

Biff

Call it Crazy says

Let's see, you think we need new laws that will ban the public from owning guns.

This guy was a previously convicted murderer and felon and spent time in prison and was released.

CURRENT laws say convicted felons aren't allow the possession of firearms. Even with these current laws in place, he willfully obtained firearms, breaking existing laws.

They don't pay attention to history. We made drugs illegal, created huge cartels out of that ban. Same will happen with guns if they ban them. These will be criminalized, and anyone who is a criminal will get them anyway, while law abiding public will be left defenseless.

CA is a great example of that. Jerry Brown released prisoners who will get guns anyway, and they are talking about banning the rest of us from owning guns, which we already can't carry in public that all drug dealers, illegals, and thugs do already.

Call it Crazy says

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

This is the most tired argument of the gun lobby.

First let me give you the example of a bubba who has guns all over the house, and takes his kids to the gun range, or gun store, so they can be educated. Some of these are good people, but you know that a lot of these are just back water bubbas who will some day be another problem.

The second example is the law abiding urbanite who has guns for his or her own protection. Chances are the gun will be used against them because they can't pull the trigger.

Criminals having guns that they know how to use, and aren't afraid to use them are the threat. In most cases you wouldn't even be able to put a bubba or an urbanite up against them.

The guy who killed the fire fighters said in his letter that he enjoyed killing.

Like what is always said, the gun doesn't do the killing, the person pulling the trigger does. So I would like a little more in depth discussion about guns, and the mentally ill, than just banning a certain kind of weapon.

It’s time. Join more than 800 mayors and 800,000 grassroots supporters to demand that President Obama and Congress step forward with a plan to end gun violence.

http://www.demandaplan.org/

Please sign the petition.

Merry XMAS all

Having a cop on duty isn't turning the place into a police station. My school already has had a police officer who works at the school during the entire day. He's integrated into the school. All the teachers and students know him and each teacher has his office on speed dial. No one thinks of him as an armed guard. He's part of our community.

121212 says

Please sign the petition.

This is a ridiculous petition. An assault weapons ban has been tried, the high capacity clip ban has been tried.

It's a feel good legislation that doesn't address the issue of gun violence, or the fact we live in a violent society.

zzyzzx you know nobody is talking about banning guns!

yet you continue this line of bullshit

commonsense reform is needed, obviously your not happy with any change that would stop you owning multiple AR's with huge drums.

Would you even have the balls to goto your neighbor and talk such shit?

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

All this crap about hunting is so much crap.

You may be kidding, but I agree.

All these Congress people, and Senators talking about hunting poor defenseless animals with guns is the wrong message to be sending.

The Right to Bear arms is the right to defence.

The NRA does the same thing, they talk like they are some knotty pine hunting lodge that is a gathering place for Sunday tea.

In our society, that is built partly on our right to own weapons, you have to expect violence. We have a violent history.

So all of these politicians, coupled with the NRA, should be talking about stemming the violence. What violence we can't calm we should be trained to defend against.

David Losh says

It's a feel good legislation that doesn't address the issue of gun violence, or the fact we live in a violent society.

B-But, the black plastic .22 is so much more scary looking than the Ruger 10/22 with the woodstock, even though both came from the factory with the pain in the ass square-shaped magazine.

And the Bubba'd SKS is more scary looking than the imported ex-Yugoslavian One made in the 1940s.

121212 says

It’s time. Join more than 800 mayors and 800,000 grassroots supporters to demand that President Obama and Congress step forward with a plan to end gun violence.

http://www.demandaplan.org/

Please sign the petition.

Merry XMAS all

Thanks for the heads up.

I picked up some 7075-T6 aluminum counter petitions and will get to work signing them with a vertical mill.

http://www.demandaplan.org/

Call it Crazy says

Really?? I must have missed something.....

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

Yes your missing your brain and your dick, you coward. One type is not all. Claiming anything else is disingenuous of you, as USUAL!