patrick.net

What is horrifying to me is that this one indecent where the girl committed suicide and there is picture evidence that was circulated are probably just the tip of the ice berg as far as these types of rapes go.

Dan8267 says

It seems to me that these three individuals are responsible for the death of the girl as much as if they had shot her. They raped and then psychologically terrorized this girl until they drove her to suicide. In my opinion, that should constitute at least second degree murder. The mechanics of how they killed this girl are less important than the fact that they directly are responsible for her death. And they should be tried as adults given the heinousness of their crimes.

It is very difficult to have sympathy for people who commit crimes like these, and I am surprised that they don't give rise to more first degree murders.

The difficulty in proving this to be a second degree murder (or even a voluntary manslaughter) is the ability to prove that they intended for her to die. At best they could get a involuntary manslaughter charge against them. I agree though that intentionally or not they are responsible for her death, and it is unfortunate that a wrongful death suite is the only way they may be punished.

Dan8267 says

-- assuming that they did it

I'm curious, why do you give these guys the benefit of doubt?
Yet you'd have Zimmerman face the firing squad, and have Obama both judge, jury and executioner.

CaptainShuddup says

I'm curious, why do you give these guys the benefit of doubt?

Dan8267 says

It took half a year to arrest these bastards -- assuming that they did it, which given the photographic and physical evidence is pretty certain.

I have. They deserve a trial. They deserve a defense. And yes, they are innocent of the rape until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in an open trial.

That said, the evidence is overwhelming enough for the purpose of discussing whether or not such a crime constitutes second degree murder or worse. If my phrasing of the text did not make this clear, I apologize. I'm not calling for them to be executed, but proposing that, if such a crime has occurred, it would constitute murder.

And by the way, I have no fucking idea what race or races the boys are, nor do I give a shit. I only know the girl is white because the family released her picture. I don't give a damn about her race either. Race is irrelevant in this case.

As for the Zimmerman trial, race is most certainly relevant in that racism may be the motive of the crime, or at least, part of the motive. And pretty much everyone who's defending Zimmerman is someone who really doesn't like blacks.

CaptainShuddup says

Yet you'd have Zimmerman face the firing squad, and have Obama both judge, jury and executioner.

Actually, my position on the Zimmerman case has always been that he should have been arrested and tried in open court, which is exactly what is happening right now. Are you saying that it is a travesty of justice that Zimmerman was arrested in the first place and that he should not face trial?

The fact is Zimmerman has committed many crimes and gotten away with it because of family connections. That's probably why he wasn't arrest right away. It's amazing how much family connections matter in our legal system.

and have Obama both judge, jury and executioner.

And what the fuck the fuck does Obama have to do with my opinions on this case? Why would you even bring Obama up?

CaptainShuddup says

Yet you'd have Zimmerman face the firing squad, and have Obama both judge, jury and executioner.

Dan8267 says

They deserve a trial. They deserve a defense.

As does Zimmerman, and I don't think anyone on Pnet said anything different.

leo707 says

The difficulty in proving this to be a second degree murder (or even a voluntary manslaughter) is the ability to prove that they intended for her to die. At best they could get a involuntary manslaughter charge against them.

True, but I would give them life in prison just for the psychological torture necessary to drive someone to suicide. That alone should be sufficient.

leo707 says

it is unfortunate that a wrongful death suite is the only way they may be punished.

How true. It diminishes the tragedy of this crime and so diminishes the value of this girl's life.

Dan8267 says

Are you saying that it is a travesty of justice that Zimmerman was arrested in the first place and that he should not face trial?

If I recall correctly there were posters on Pnet who were suggesting this. I don't remember is Shuddup was one of them.

Dan8267 says

True, but I would give them life in prison just for the psychological torture necessary to drive someone to suicide. That alone should be sufficient.

I am open to the possibility that one -- or perhaps two -- of the guys is genuinely remorseful and did not take part in the post rape harassment.

However, the type of person who would first rape then psychologically torture someone to the point of suicide -- whether they intended the death or not -- is the type of person who has forfeit their opportunity to live freely with the rest of us. At lest one of them is guilty of that.

leo707 says

I am open to the possibility that one -- or perhaps two -- of the guys is genuinely remorseful and did not take part in the post rape harassment.

Fair enough. The news coverage hasn't been specific enough to tell if the postings were done by one, two, or all three of them.

Civil suit, and 8 months after her suicide?

Retribution would have been swift and thorough, 7 months ago.

upisdown says

Civil suit, and 8 months after her suicide?

Retribution would have been swift and thorough, 7 months ago.

8 months of coming to terms with a daughters death and grappling with an impotent criminal justice system. I am sure they would have preferred swifter justice as well.

Dan8267 says

Zimmerman case has always been that he should have been arrested and tried in open court, which is exactly what is happening right now.

Is it? Is it?...

Dan8267 says

Why would you even bring Obama up?

Why would Obama bring it up. I'm not the president, I'm not the one you should be questioning. A real statesman, if he felt compelled to say anything at all. Would have called for everyone to back off the hot story, and let the police do their job at getting to the bottom of it. Instead Obama only fueled the lawlessness of school kids all over the country to walk off campus, and in some instances, they mobbed a convenient store and cleaned them out. He insighted more race tension, as he likes to do every chance he gets, much like you claiming I must hate black people because you think I support Zimmerman.

I support "Due Process" something you must not know anything about.
Let's just hope that one day you don't find your self in a legal mess, where you either may or may not be innocent, but for the sake of my argument, let's say you're innocent. Do you really want the President of the United States, emptying the trunk of your car, as your precariously dangling over a cliff?
Do you really want the President weighing in, with a tone, that suggests you're not only guilty but committed your crime because you were a racist?

I thought Zimmerman was the biggest idiot concocted, and just more proof, that most people who reckon them selves as community protectors are a little tightly wound. I'm sure, that it didn't matter what color TM was, the outcome would have been the same. If TM had been white, then nobody would give three shits about the case. Even if Zimmerman did it because he didn't like white people. So spare me the race speech, race only counts if your black in America. Which is all the Liberal press, the POTUS and self promoting community activist have made this case about. They have tried him in the court of opinion, and that my friend is a dangerous court system.

CaptainShuddup says

Dan8267 says

Why would you even bring Obama up?

Why would Obama bring it up.

So you said

Yet you'd [Dan8267] have Zimmerman face the firing squad, and [that Dan8267 would] have Obama both judge, jury and executioner.

because Obama mentioned the tragedy after it garnered national attention? I fail to see the logic in going from Obama mentioning the case to me wanting to appoint him as judge, jury, and executioner. Walk me through that logic.

Come on Dan don't play coy with me, Obama was pandering to the racist narrative. On a subject, he had no business fanning the flames. You can't tell me, acquittal or conviction, Obama's early meddling will not have an impact on the outcome of the trial.

CaptainShuddup says

Come on Dan don't play coy with me, Obama was pandering to the racist narrative. On a subject, he had no business fanning the flames. You can't tell me, acquittal or conviction, Obama's early meddling will not have an impact on the outcome of the trial.

Again, what the hell does that have to do with me wanting Obama to judge, jury, and executioner?

Sounds like you misspoke on that. I sure as hell don't want Obama involved in this case and never said anything that would imply that.