patrick.net

donjumpsuit says

Labeling something 'GMO' has no signifigance since it is such a broad term, nobody knows what anybody is talking about.

You can repeat this a million times, it won't change the fact that a genetically modified organism is an organism that has had it's RNA/DNA altered in the LAB (as opposed to crossbred). How fucking hard is that to understand? It is so simple that even the - in this thread - so called "dumbed down" American public broadly understands the concept and that's why you get so many calls for labeling as they have a right to know. It has been narrowly defeated here in CA, no reason to go apeshit and panic as you pointed out one can buy organic, but I predict it will pass in Vermont and more states will follow, rightfully so. But who knows, will be interesting to see..

mell says

a genetically modified organism is an organism that has had it's RNA/DNA altered in the LAB (as opposed to crossbred). How fucking hard is that to understand?

You seem to be making an implication that DNA altered in a lab is inherently bad, whereas DNA altered by selective breeding is inherently good. What is your scientific basis for this belief??

Homeboy says

mell says

a genetically modified organism is an organism that has had it's RNA/DNA altered in the LAB (as opposed to crossbred). How fucking hard is that to understand?

You seem to be making an implication that DNA altered in a lab is inherently bad, whereas DNA altered by selective breeding is inherently good. What is your scientific basis for this belief??

It carries greater risks and unknowns. The principle of familiarity which means that selective breeding can only work in organisms close enough to each other, so for example you won't have any luck selectively breeding/crossing species, e.g. animals or insects with plants, but it has been done in the labs.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.0960-7412.2002.001607.x/full

"The transfer of antibiotic resistance gene to unrelated microorganisms such as Aspergillus niger has also been demonstrated [34]. Biotechnology scientists, however, are of the opinion that the Npt II gene used to develop GM plants currently in the market is safe for use because there is no evidence of allergenicity or toxicity related to it."

It's nice that they are of the "opinion" that aspergillus niger cannot cause any problems. Well, quite a few don't share this opinion. But I guess as long as the resistance doesn't reach Stachybotrys it's only a problem for immunocompromised and otherwise weak/allergic people. Also, I'd contend that "not reputable" is also an opinion ;) But thanks, interesting article, I will completely read through it when I have more time.

mell says

It carries greater risks and unknowns. The principle of familiarity which means that selective breeding can only work in organisms close enough to each other, so for example you won't have any luck selectively breeding/crossing species, e.g. animals or insects with plants, but it has been done in the labs.

I haven't heard of this "principle of familiarity". There is a "familiarity principle" in psychology, but that doesn't pertain to genetics. Perhaps you could explain to us what makes this "principle of familiarity" valid.

I'm not sure what this "close enough to each other" concept is supposed to mean. Quite obviously, humans have succeeded in cross-breeding species that do not breed together in nature. We have done this for thousands of years. Most of the food we eat is a result of this process. We have already interfered with whatever evolution would have occurred were humans not present on the earth. Your objection seems merely to be that this is a "different" method of changing genetics. I'm still not seeing any scientific basis for your fear. How is a random gene mutation inherently less "risky" than a carefully selected gene insertion?

Check out this (expert) debate between Vrain and Horgen if you are really interested, it will give you more insight and you can then form (or keep) your own opinion:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=252908071394905&story_fbid=567786546573721#_=_

mell says

Check out this (expert) debate between Vrain and Horgen if you are really interested, it will give you more insight and you can then form (or keep) your own opinion:

I am interested, but I feel that I wasted my time reading that. Vrain cites the same flawed and totally discredited "studies" that you and the other anti-GMO zealots have already talked about ad nauseam on this forum. Then he admits that nobody has ever gotten sick from eating GMO food, but makes the ridiculous argument: "it sure adds up, and we did not know that in the 1950s before we started our wave of epidemics of cancer." I'm sorry, but he is not being scientific in the least. Is he trying to say that GMO food has caused a cancer epidemic starting in the 1960s? Where's the evidence?

It honestly seems to me that you have a pre-ordained conclusion and you are just cherry-picking whatever bits and pieces you can find on the internet that seem to fit what you have already decided in your mind.

I am generally a consumer of organic food, but it is not always possible to get organic depending on where you are and even non-GMO label is only partially applied so far. I personally know microbiologists and researchers from Europe (Germany, Ukraine etc.) who would neither consume GMOs themselves nor feed it to their family or friends, and we have had many talks about it, so it's not an "internet-only" affair ;) Let's close this as nobody will be convinced on patnet and wait and see how this continues to play out.

mell says

Let's close this as nobody will be convinced on patnet and wait and see how this continues to play out.

I agree. Nobody will be convinced, because you have failed to provide any convincing evidence.