patrick.net

You did the right thing firing that agent, she sounds like scum.

There are good, honest real estate agents out there. Mine is great, if you're interested, I can post contact info, they're not all scum, though I'd like to figure out a way not to paste his name all over an internet discussion forum. He's based out of Los Altos. I just bought a house last week after shopping around at a leisurely pace for about a couple of years, and I honestly could have gotten screwed several times over had my agent not smelled something fishy or spotted an expensive, camouflaged problem.

It sounds like Los Altos is still having a bidding frenzy. I had similar experiences in Mountain view - I bid 15% over asking only to be beaten by cash offers 30% over asking, or competing with 20 no contingency offers.

Not that I'm picking sides, but it's pretty irregular to have the buyer and seller meeting face to face during negotiations. Seems like it could complicate things.

That being said, I would just declare my terms for the purchase (not paying seller closing cost, not letting them stay more than 1 week, etc), and if they reject, just walk away. No need to see them face to face.

What Goran_K said,

"That being said, I would just declare my terms for the purchase (not paying seller closing cost, not letting them stay more than 1 week, etc), and if they reject, just walk away."

Anybody, splain this to me. "The offer is 15% above asking price."

HEY YOU says

Anybody, splain this to me. "The offer is 15% above asking price."

If you want to buy a house, you are competing against potentially dozens of other buyers in this market, so you bid over, as do most other people. You stand zero chance getting a house for asking price in Los Altos.

Goran_K says

Not that I'm picking sides, but it's pretty irregular to have the buyer and seller meeting face to face during negotiations. Seems like it could complicate things.

Especially for the agents! "You're a grown-up adult enough to spend half a million dollars, but not grown-up enough to negotiate the deal."

Another example of why buying a house represents so much spending that many people get their claws in it and screw you bigtime.

FunnyBayAreaBuyer says

I guess the fact that i'm offering 15% above asking and 47% above previous price does not make it obvious that i'm paying for all the fees??????

Yes, infact its the law, fees are not paid outside of escrow account. Escrow service provides accounting for all fees for tax purposes.

http://www.trulia.com/voices/Home_Buying/is_it_fraudulent_to_pay_commission_outside_of_escr-52754

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Estate_Settlement_Procedures_Act

It was created because various companies associated with the buying and selling of real estate, such as lenders, real estate agents, construction companies and title insurance companies were often engaging in providing undisclosed kickbacks to each other, inflating the costs of real estate transactions and obscuring price competition by facilitating bait-and-switch tactics

FunnyBayAreaBuyer says

I think I'll never be able to buy a house here. There is no way i can find a fair ethical way to do this right.

myob says

It sounds like Los Altos is still having a bidding frenzy.

Goran_K says

Seems like it could complicate things.

I suggest you read below the legal definition of Market Pricing word for word and have a good understanding of it. Take note of key words.. prudently, knowledgeably, undue stimulus, informed, best interest... of course you would meet the buyer, to even verify they exist. Its no wonder all the RE pricing is so fouled up with irregularities and emotions.

"The most probable price (in terms of money) which a property should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale, the buyer and seller each acting prudently and knowledgeably, and assuming the price is not affected by undue stimulus. Implicit in this definition is the consummation of a sale as of a specified date and the passing of title from seller to buyer under conditions whereby: the buyer and seller are typically motivated; both parties are well informed or well advised, and acting in what they consider their best interests; a reasonable time is allowed for exposure in the open market; payment is made in terms of cash in United States dollars or in terms of financial arrangements comparable thereto; and the price represents the normal consideration for the property sold unaffected by special or creative financing or sales concessions granted by anyone associated with the sale."

I would have allowed them to rent it back, but asked them to pay two months security deposit plus 150% of market rent. Say no to the extra closing costs, and tell the Realtor that you want to start looking at other properties immediately.

When they start to sniff a deal, buyers agents start pushing the buyer to bend over and take whatever they get. Let them know that you are willing to walk by insisting that they show you more properties. Then, they will be less inclined to collude on screwing you. There seems to be a formula. The Realtor shows you a dog of a property & badmouths it. This gains your trust. Then they show you the one they want you to buy. By comparison, it looks great, and they have your trust. Now, when they push you to up your bid or whatever, you are more likely to do it. Realtors never let you speak directly to the seller. They actually act like this is a valuable service they provide. In many cases, it may be. To me, it seems silly.

FunTime says

Especially for the agents! "You're a grown-up adult enough to spend half a million dollars, but not grown-up enough to negotiate the deal."

Another example of why buying a house represents so much spending that many people get their claws in it and screw you bigtime.

I've never sold a house, just bought one, and I can't imagine having done so without my agent's help. How many times does someone buy a house in a lifetime? A handful maybe, this was my first. He's seen it all in terms of sellers playing games with timing or pricing or contingencies, while I have no idea. I'm also very emotionally attached to this transaction, while he isn't, so I considered leaving negotiations to him a good idea. When the seller countered with something, he called me and presented his take on the offer, and recommendation, but ultimately left the decision to me, which is how I think it should be done.

There is a lot of value in leveraging someone's experience like this, so I think making a blanket statement that people are all there to get their claws into you and screw you is going a little too far. Shop across many agents and find one you think you can work with and see if you can trust them. Drop them when you see any warning sign, don't try to figure out why they did something fishy, move on.

myob says

I've never sold a house, just bought one, and I can't imagine having done so without my agent's help.

You wrote helpful points, but they are different than being told by the agent you won't be allowed to attend. Everyone being left to their own sense of fishiness leads to some serious screwing.

FunTime says

You wrote helpful points, but they are different than being told by the agent you won't be allowed to attend.

Yeah, that's just slimy, and firing the agent is a great idea in this case.

One thing for sure. If i'm paying for the party, I will definitely attend.

The buyer brings the money to the transaction so it is the buyer's money that pays for everything. Agents get confused by the "contracts" they think are so important. The seller is the one signing a Listing Agreement where they allow the fees, and commissions to be paid from the proceeds of the sale, but the reality is the buyer brings the money.

Agents actually only handle Real Estate Agreements, which in turn means representing your best interests.

If you were leasing back to the seller, then yes, you would need to meet them. You would want to meet any renter, so this would be even more important.

Buyer's and sellers don't usually meet. There are times when it can be helpful, and especially if you are considering walking away. Seriously, if you are walking away, get another agent to carry the offer, or work directly with the listing agent for a reduced commission.

What have you got to lose. All they can say is no.

Also, if you are better qualified, and able to close, you may be more attractive than the second position, or third offer.

Give it a shot.

Who is this dirtball Realtor?

Nobody worth our time, that for sure. I'm thinking of calling some other realtors. I'm also thinking of giving up on buying. This market, although slowed, seems to be way too hot and irrational still.