patrick.net

The Justice(?) system is not working. Unless it has become legal to launder billions of dollars of drug money for decades. And unless it has become legal to knowingly sell garbage securities as Triple A.

The problem is when they work together, instead of against each other.

Capitalists should dread a trip to Washington, not look forward to it.

CaptainShuddup says

The problem is when they work together, instead of against each other.

Capitalists should dread a trip to Washington, not look forward to
it.

If "they" are heading to Washington, "they" aren't capitalists, they're a freakin socialist to some extent and want a hand-out or economic advantage over their competitor/s granted by the government.

And, those fuckers that do that babble on endlessly about "the free market" at the same time out of the side of their mouth.

(obligatory) an shit

The problem is the constituents are ignorant. Not to hard to remedy, there has a willingness to have a national program to educate the constituents in economics.

It can be done, it was done by Paul Martin in Canada in the early 80's which resulted in some austerity. Granted not ideal but it does show it can be done.

Of course you would have to bitch slap Krugman out of the classroom.

indigenous says

The problem is the constituent are ignorant.

I wouldn't say ignorant, mostly that people don't care enough because of the status quo type of arrangement, whereas their life could potentially be worse, so don't screw with things because that could maybe happen.

People become conditioned to the way things(government) are, and how they function in reality, and that it won't change much if any at all, and are content enough with just perioic complaing about it.

Heck, the lower economic groups that their lives would improve the most, don't even vote. Conditioned behavior or laziness?? So the owners of most of the economy send out their boot-lickers to smooze(and bribe)government people to hand out some good ole free market-ism, in cash or some type of subsidy/mandate-advantage.

upisdown says

the lower economic groups that their lives would improve the most

Their plight is overstated as public transfers are not included in their income. Plus any black market activities are obviously not included.

John Bailo says

That is, a person barred from a country club doesn't necessarily thing that country clubs are bad. They just want membership.

Ironic that the all "inclusive" club is the very thing that keeps jobs away.

indigenous says

upisdown
says

the lower economic groups that their lives would improve the most

Their plight is overstated as public transfers are not included in their
income. Plus any black market activities are obviously not included.

Very true, but also in regards to the 26% that put jobs as their main concern, must not have one or a crappy job at best. Our economy has drastically changed over the last 10-20 years, and even in the last generation. Some people will have to change their ideas/goals to fit into today's economy, and is it realistic to think that unemployment will go much lower than what it has been for the last roughly 3 years?

upisdown says

Our economy has drastically changed over the last 10-20 years, and even in the last generation.

I think Captain Shudup said it best (paraphrasing) the economy never does recover it just grows in new directions.

This growth comes solely from investment. Investors have been saying deal me out there is too much uncertainly caused by the POTUS. Much like FDR did for 10 straight years

What jobs today would have predicted by someone 100yr ago or even 50?

indigenous says

This growth comes solely from investment. Investors have been saying deal me
out there is too much uncertainly caused by the POTUS. Much like FDR did for 10
straight years

Growth comes from many sources and for many different reasons too. The times of today versus when FDR was the HMFIC, isn't even really a comparison. And yet that era is used as a gauge, guideline, or whatever to today like it's an even comparison.
Far too often, especially in reference to the economy, various periods are used to make decisions without using some type of conversion or proportion to today. 1929 to the recent past is just one example, and yet it was endlessly referenced on how similar things were. But, that era and today couldn't be more different.

upisdown says

Growth comes from many sources and for many different reasons too.

That is not true. I will agree to disagree

The similarity is in egregious government meddling.

indigenous says

upisdown
says

Growth comes from many sources and for many different reasons too.

That is not true. I will agree to disagree

The similarity is in egregious government meddling.

I'll try to give an example, and that's charter schools. Lobbyists wrote legislation that included various formal terms or names/words like disadvantaged and the like to describe a given area, and also to give it some type of preferential treatment if invested into such an area. And there's huge returns on investment to include generous tax breaks are allowed.

Another example is GE and the various things that they produce/manufacture and dabble in. If GE sees somthing as having potential returns and wider acceptance/growth, they will jump in AND THEN worry about lobbying for preferential tax breaks later, or even being the "select" manufacturer later to improve profits in the future.

The recent Farm Bill is another, whereas all the whining about 46.6 million people collecting food stamps at a rate of roughly $4.30 per person per day. But, Wal Mart, being the largest US employer, that is owned by one of the, if not THE richest family in the US, is also the largest grocery store chain in the US and whose sales of food is more than 50% of their total sales(and ironically whose employees qualify and collect food stamps)and controls about 30% of the grocery market, might lose some money.
And there were 532 organizations that have a direct relationship of some sort, or purely out of self-preservation were against splitting the food and farm portions of the bill up.
Ya think that maybe Wal Mart was somewhere among those 532 organizations maybe???

Notice the pattern above where the actions happen and then the government is lobbied later to make things better? And yet numerous people in the above examples use that worn out catch-phrase of the government hindering them somehow, but yet always turn to the government for something.

upisdown says

I'll try to give an example

Everything you described is not capitalism. It is crony capitalism and it is the worst and should be cut out completely.

The VERY definition of a product is something someone would willing exchange for. Notice this does require ANY force. All government activities use force. Ergo by definition government involvement in the market place is not a product.

FDR probably did this more than any other president. But LBJ, Woodrow Wilson, Carter, Obama, Abraham Lincoln are a close second.

indigenous says

Everything you described is not capitalism.

I know, and alluded to that initially above. But it does happen quite regularly too.

So do ya think that Wal Mart and their "free market" mantra would squeal if the SNAP program was defunded???? I don't think that they would be content with keeping just the sales tax they collect alone as income.
And, that's maybe got something to do with why Wal Mart getting into the grocery business, along with the corresponding uptick in SNAP spending/budgets????

upisdown says

So do ya think that Wal Mart and their "free market" mantra would squeal if the SNAP program was defunded???? I don't think that they would be content with keeping just the sales tax they collect alone as income.

And, that's maybe got something to do with why Wal Mart getting into the grocery business, along with the corresponding uptick in SNAP spending/budgets????

So what.

We need to wake up the sleeping 300 million zombies. Otherwise this country is done. The only question will be fast of slow?, Mad Max or 1984?

capitalism is fine. socialism and communism simply mean i have to provide for less intelligent people, like the OP. why would i want to do that?

indigenous says

Of course you would have to bitch slap Krugman out of the classroom.

No loss, good riddance ;)