patrick.net

Worthwhile read...https://seekingalpha.com/article/4632390-blackstone-mortgage-trust-valuation-is-getting-risky

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kevin-o-leary-says-coming-230043170.html

Kevin O’Leary Says a Coming Real Estate Collapse Will Lead to ‘Chaos’

Which is about commercial real estate, even though title doesn't mention it specifically.

zzyzzx says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kevin-o-leary-says-coming-230043170.html

Kevin O’Leary Says a Coming Real Estate Collapse Will Lead to ‘Chaos’

Which is about commercial real estate, even though title doesn't mention it specifically.

cre collapsing doesn’t bother me one bit. but knowing our fucking government of the wealthy assholes, they’ll bail out the wealthy at expense to middle class to rescue outdated business model. that’s what they did every other time.

Signature Bank's Commercial-Property Loan Sale Expected to Draw Bids at 40% Below Face Value, Reflecting Eroding Property Prices

https://wallstreetai.substack.com/p/november-9th-2023-financial-outlook#%C2%A7signature-banks-commercial-property-loan-sale-expected-to-draw-bids-at-below-face-value-reflecting-eroding-property-prices

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-estate-owners-saddled-with-half-empty-offices-as-hybrid-work-continues-60-minutes-transcript

The reality is the price of office buildings is tanking, as much as 40% since the pandemic. Uptown at Columbia Business School, Stijn Van Nieuwerburgh, a professor of real estate, has modeled out the impact of hybrid work on pricing…and calls it a train wreck in slow motion.

Prof. Stijn Van Nieuwerburgh: And this is just the beginning. And the reason it's just the beginning is because there's a lot of office tenants that have not had to make an active space decision yet. "Do I want to renew this space? Do I wanna vacate? Maybe I sign a new lease for half as much space." This is what tenants have been doing for the last three years. So when you take all of those current and future declines of cash flows into account, we end up with about a 40% reduction in the value of these offices.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13071753/san-francisco-offices-vacant-ian-jacobs-reichmann-real-estate.html

Real-estate tycoon looks to buy $900MILLION worth of San Francisco office space as companies and residents flee downtown amid homelessness, crime and work-from-home
Ian Jacobs, 47, has decided to purchase an estimated $900million worth of office space in San Francisco
The heir of the Reichmann real-estate dynasty has set up $75million in commitments for the new business venture
The Bay Area has experienced a drastic jump in office vacancy

The start of a new cycle as Ian Jacobs (see above post) and the rest come in and buy at cheap or fire sale prices.

Then the city and state governments clean up the city.

Companies increase presence in the city.

Price value increases for real estate as a result.

https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/02/15/boston-tax-shortfall-empty-offices-space-report

Report: Boston faces more than $1 billion tax shortfall due to empty offices

@Eman any interesting commercial deals coming up in search of investors? i’m interested, serious post. i know you are a smart guy with track record of good decisions.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

any interesting commercial deals coming up in search of investors? i’m interested, serious post. i know you are a smart guy with track record of good decisions.

I wouldn't touch commercial office space right now. It's dying. Certain sectors like medical need offices, but most businesses really don't anymore.

You gotta have $$$$$ but warehouses are your best bet if you are going to invest personally and not through a REIT or publicly traded company. Which goes back to remote working. IL is not growing in population. Yet massive warehouses pop up monthly along the major highways here. Storage of inventory is a massive factor now even for the minor players.

I wouldn't touch office space now or for the foreseeable future. My wife grosses $6M/yr in cash sales and hasn't stepped foot in her office in 5 years maybe? 50-60% margins. Offices were a "marketing" expense in a sense, to make you look good when a client visited. It's just not worth it. Only upside is repurposing the space which is risky. Trampoline indoor park for kids and birthdays. But that's a one off thing. Industrial, manufacturing and warehouse is where the money is going. Definitely not office even if there's a price collapse.

Commercial RE needs to market to the government and get some of that sweet sweet illegal invader money. They could house the invaders in those places. Just let them sleep on the floors and they can take hand towel baths in the sinks of the bathrooms. Give each floor a bunch of hot plates and microwaves and some refrigerators. Get sum o dat sweet sweet invader money.

wookiee warehouses out here cost more than I can afford. acre costs about 200k, and construction cost is close to a million. used to be less than half btw. small businesses who had those built while back just saw values double and triple over few years. and weird shit is their rent doesn’t bring enough to cover any loans.

life lesson i learned is when shit collapses you need to have cash ready to pull trigger fast before window closes. i feel that moment is coming and i’m actually prepared.

Following up. Restaurant commercial might have some upside with the work from home deal. It's where my wife does most of her business. Not in an office. I think that ship has sailed at this point. She meets everyone at a restaurant or coffee shop. This is all anecdotal but I generally get it right. I wouldn't touch anything in the office space regardless of hearing the come back to the office news. Employees will push back. And the space after leases are up won't be viable for the business and they'll leave.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

Eman any interesting commercial deals coming up in search of investors? i’m interested, serious post. i know you are a smart guy with track record of good decisions.

Hi Fort Wayne,

I’m always looking at deals, but have been doing it half-hearted as the market is in a transition, not sure for the better or worse.

Remember the 40-unit deal by SJSU I mentioned in the other thread? Seller paid $13M basically for the land a couple years ago. Got it entitled to build a 23-story 168-unit high rise condominiums. The market churned; numbers no longer make sense to build; bridge loan is coming due; and seller wants to sell before getting drowned with high rates. Seller initially wanted $12M, and eventually came down to $10M. Now, seller will sell at $9M. Our latest offer was $8M. We can come up a couple hundred thousands, but not much more.

My math suggests we can get all our equity back in 5 years. Then let the building do it things with cash flow and principal pay down. In the next cycle, be it a decade or 15 years, the next developer will pay us handsome money for it. Assume 3% annual growth/appreciation…. on average, 6.6% is the average for Bay Area real estate, we’ll make out like bandits.

We’ll raise money with a very close group of friends and relatives if we get the deal. Not going beyond this sphere. Thanks for your trust and compliment.

Can’t share much other this line from yesterday at the moment.

A Chicom company abandoned these high rises in Los Angeles : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanwide_Plaza

Now they are victim to graffiti vandalism : https://laist.com/news/downtown-los-angeles-graffiti-taggers-high-rise

Wonder if these high rises will get bought out by an American firm or organization and will be finished.

What's your opinion on these abandoned high rises, Eman ?

AD says

A Chicom company abandoned these high rises in Los Angeles : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanwide_Plaza

Now they are victim to graffiti vandalism : https://laist.com/news/downtown-los-angeles-graffiti-taggers-high-rise

Wonder if these high rises will get bought out by an American firm or organization and will be finished.

What's your opinion on these abandoned high rises, Eman ?

The lender(s) will have to foreclose and take a hit. A developer will buy it for the right price and complete it. High cost to build, high interest rate, and the weak housing environment started in the 2nd half of 2022 had basically killed these projects.

During time of crisis, liquidity = value. Our regional/portfolio lenders require us to submit our Personal Financial Statement (PFS) and Schedule of Real Estate Owned once a year to verify we’re still in good standing financially.

Unlike residential real estate, every step I take in commercial real estate has to be measured. No reason to take on unnecessary risk at this point in my life and create a fiasco. People who ask for the repeal of Prop 13 actually want to see others suffer and turn people’s life upside down without putting thoughts into it. They’re thinking like the communist. Be very careful of them.

In my circle of acquaintances, we try to help everyone get ahead regardless of our political differences. Real estate and finance are our daily exchanges. We talk about politics and religions, but we know where everyone stands. We don’t let these ruin our friendship and business ventures.

Eman i understand, if you guys short half mil, you got an interested investor here.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

Eman i understand, if you guys short half mil, you got an interested investor here.

Consider open a money market account with Fidelity or Interactive Broker and make 5-5.25% safely for not doing anything if you haven’t done it already. The money is liquid and earning income while you’re looking for a deal. That’s like $2k/month. That can pay for a lot of nice lunches and dinners with your spouse.

Good luck Fort Wayne 🤞

Seeing the debate on both sides why Trump should be fined $357M, or whatever, for inflating the value of his assets, etc…. The people who are anti-Trump are clueless IMO. Banks do their due diligence before they lend. They ask for bank statements, tax returns, etc… They hire an appraiser to assess the value of the asset/collateral and only lend a portion of the loan amount based on the appraised value, not whatever Trump claims. Also, the banks will verify that his cash flow/income can support the debt in addition to his living expenses, etc….

Eman says

People who ask for the repeal of Prop 13 actually want to see others suffer and turn people’s life upside down without putting thoughts into it. They’re thinking like the communist. Be very careful of them.

I do not agree at all. I do not live in Cali but it blows my mind how it is fair for people to be taxed differently. Can a person in California lock in prices for anything else? Can I lock in the price of gas when I bought my first car back in 1980? Or lock in my car insurance bill from 1980? Why not, seems as fair as locking in my property tax bill.

GNL says

Eman says

People who ask for the repeal of Prop 13 actually want to see others suffer and turn people’s life upside down without putting thoughts into it. They’re thinking like the communist. Be very careful of them.

I do not agree at all. I do not live in Cali but it blows my mind how it is fair for people to be taxed differently. Can a person in California lock in prices for anything else? Can I lock in the price of gas when I bought my first car back in 1980? Or lock in my car insurance bill from 1980? Why not, seems as fair as locking in my property tax bill.

If you believe people move every 7 years, then Prop 13 is not an issue.

If you want to ban Prop 13, I’m all for it. However, there must be a process to do that. You have to phase it in over a period of time while. special assessments, which are included in the property taxes at this time, which were not there pre-Prop 13 must be phase out.

As I previously mentioned, I’m fine with banning or phasing out Prop 13. Give me a proposal. Cricket. Banning Prop 13 without phasing out special assessments AND getting rid of rent control and all the city fees (these didn’t exist before rent control and Prop 13) is THEFT.

Everyone is giving a fair chance to but NOW and keep Prop 13 on their property taxes.

I came to this country without speaking the language. I bought my first house without knowing anything about Prop 13. Wife and I bought our 2nd house without knowing about Prop 13. We bought our 3rd house, for 4.5x the amount of our first house and 3x our 2nd house, and pay a lot in property taxes each year. We don’t complain. Everyone is giving a fair chance to start NOW. Stop whining and start working and getting ahead

Just looked at this deal last week. 12 units. See what rent control does to this building? The tenant who is paying $523 has been living here for 47 years. See how the 5 high paying tenants are subsidizing for the 7 low paying tenants?

Let’s ban Prop 13. Let’s also ban rent control. Let’s also ban the city rent control housing department and ban all the associated fees that go with it. Oh, and don’t forget to ban all the special assessments that the city has been tagging on the property taxes all these decades. Let property owners have their rights and charge these tenants market rents. Does this proposal sound fair?

Eman says

If you want to ban Prop 13, I’m all for it.

But you said people who want to eliminate Prop 13 are thinking like the communists.

GNL says

Eman says

If you want to ban Prop 13, I’m all for it.

But you said people who want to eliminate Prop 13 are thinking like the communists.

They are because they don’t offer solutions. They just want to ban it. TAKE, TAKE and TAKE. That’s what communists do.

I asked for a proposal/solution but none was given.

Eman says

Stop whining and start working and getting ahead.

I certainly do not disagree with this statement but, I do find it weird to be so nonchalant about fairness in taxation. In fact, it seems you are nonchalant about most things. This is how those in power are given room to fuck everything up. Just look at California and the absurdity it is. Free healthcare for the invaders? How many billions in debt? No gas cars beginning, what is it, 2025/26? Wookie is absolutely correct, Cali is a shithole. At some point, it will be a fullblown communist state. They will take everything from you if this keeps going.

If I were KING, I would eliminate state income tax so retirees don’t have to move out of CA to save money.

If I were KING, I would consider eliminate property taxes for all retirees too. At a minimum, I would encourage retirees to downsize in exchange for eliminating their property taxes.

GNL says

Eman says

Stop whining and start working and getting ahead.

I certainly do not disagree with this statement but, I do find it weird to be so nonchalant about fairness in taxation. In fact, it seems you are nonchalant about most things. This is how those in power are given room to fuck everything up. Just look at California and the absurdity it is. Free healthcare for the invaders? How many billions in debt? No gas cars beginning, what is it, 2025/26? Wookie is absolutely correct, Cali is a shithole. At some point, it will be a fullblown communist state. They will take everything from you if this keeps going.

Fairness in taxation? CA is one of the states with highest taxes and they want more tax revenues? Those, who agree with the State, are calling for eliminating Prop 13. CA doesn’t have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem.

You don’t live here so you don’t understand the local politics. I can’t explain the complexity of Prop 13 and rent control here for you. In short, the cities make landlords pay for all kinds of fees and use the fees to support the tenants fighting against the landlords in court if there’s ever a dispute.

Check out this short video clip. It’s a true story. I have 2 friends, one went through this last year, and one is currently going through this. Tenant hasn’t paid rent for 3 years. Now, he has to pay the tenant to leave. We run our rentals very carefully so we don’t have to deal with this stuff. Also, we’re in Santa Clara County where the laws are being enforced unlike San Francisco and Alameda Counties.

https://www.instagram.com/california.insider/reel/C2DoI-auPnl/

Eman, even more proof that California is a shithole. You should have sold everything between 2021/2022 and left. Just my opinion. You and your progeny will be trapped there forever.

Due to the Covid moratorium, couldn’t evict the tenant until it was lifted in July. The court was backed up with files. Finally got to the judge. The tenant claimed the place is uninhabitable. If the place is uninhabitable, landlord can ask the tenant to vacate so he can remodel the place, but he has to pay relocation fees in the teens thousands in Alameda County I believe.

GNL says

Eman, even more proof that California is a shithole. You should have sold everything between 2021/2022 and left. Just my opinion. You and your progeny will be trapped there forever.

Not all CA is a shit hole. It varies from county to county. Once in the Central Valley, it gets very red. Along the Bay, very blue. The blue people believe they’re “smarter” and “know better” than the red people.

It’s the land of opportunity if you know how to navigate the landline. Jealousy folks are the ones who stir up more problems without offer solutions. That’s why most of them, or their kids, with tattoos and blue hair work at Starbucks and fast food places.

GNL says

Eman says

Stop whining and start working and getting ahead.

I certainly do not disagree with this statement but, I do find it weird to be so nonchalant about fairness in taxation. In fact, it seems you are nonchalant about most things. This is how those in power are given room to fuck everything up. Just look at California and the absurdity it is. Free healthcare for the invaders? How many billions in debt? No gas cars beginning, what is it, 2025/26? Wookie is absolutely correct, Cali is a shithole. At some point, it will be a fullblown communist state. They will take everything from you if this keeps going.

2035 I believe. I don’t know how much of CA Wookie has been to to make that statement. Just like people who have only been to South Chicago saying Chicago is a shithole.

I have billionaires living within 30 minutes of where I live. Mark Zuckerberg, the two Google founders, Meg Whitman, John Sobrato, George Marcus, the Spieker brothers, just to name a few…. The reason I know the latter 4 persons because of real estate.

If we compare, I believe we have more billionaires living in CA compared to any other states, or even the world. Elon Musk used to live in Palo Alto before relocated to SoCal. Most VC live in the Bay Area too. How could anyone say CA is a shithole? Of course it’s Wookie. He knows….everything.

Eman says

It’s the land of opportunity if you know how to navigate the landline. Jealousy folks are the ones who stir up more problems without offer solutions. That’s why most of them, or their kids, with tattoos and blue hair work at Starbucks and fast food places.

That was funny. And true, I'm sure.

Eman says

How could anyone say CA is a shithole? Of course it’s Wookie. He knows….everything.

Ok, you've made me laugh twice today now. I say the whole state of Cali because the state is ruled by the blue people from above. The state can do the most damage, no?

California rich commies would always defend 1978 Prop 13 to loot the state!
No example is enough to convince rich to stop looting.
https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2022/04/california-prop-13-neighborhoods/
The owner of a 6,740-square-foot mansion in San Francisco estimated to be worth $9 million paid $5,625 in property taxes in 2020, according to the Tax Fairness Project, which analyzed county tax records and market values in home buying websites such as Zillow. Across the bay in Richmond, the owner of a 991-square-foot home worth $331,000 and in need of repairs paid almost as much tax at $5,240.
Where-else this kind of tax out of control disproportions exist at state, these numbers are much wider for businesses!
https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/

Blue says

California rich commies would always defend 1978 Prop 13 to loot the state!
No example is enough to convince rich to stop looting.
https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2022/04/california-prop-13-neighborhoods/
The owner of a 6,740-square-foot mansion in San Francisco estimated to be worth $9 million paid $5,625 in property taxes in 2020, according to the Tax Fairness Project, which analyzed county tax records and market values in home buying websites such as Zillow. Across the bay in Richmond, the owner of a 991-square-foot home worth $331,000 and in need of repairs paid almost as much tax at $5,240.
Where-else this kind of tax out of control disproportions exist at state, these numbers are much wider for businesses!
https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/

Keep repeating like a parrot while offering no comprehensive solutions.

For old Patnet timers, remember Iwog’s wife, who inherited a SFH in Lafayette, an affluent part of the Bay Area, and also the low property tax basis? They live there. Iwog is as left as they come wouldn’t anyone agree? Did you hear the whining a bitching from this immigrant about Prop 13? Thank god I don’t look at the world from your viewpoints. Phew…..

Blue says

California rich commies would always defend 1978 Prop 13 to loot the state!
No example is enough to convince rich to stop looting.
https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2022/04/california-prop-13-neighborhoods/
The owner of a 6,740-square-foot mansion in San Francisco estimated to be worth $9 million paid $5,625 in property taxes in 2020, according to the Tax Fairness Project, which analyzed county tax records and market values in home buying websites such as Zillow. Across the bay in Richmond, the owner of a 991-square-foot home worth $331,000 and in need of repairs paid almost as much tax at $5,240.
Where-else this kind of tax out of control disproportions exist at state, these numbers are much wider for businesses!
https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/

Kind of shitty reporting that it's White neighborhoods that get the tax breaks. While I agree Prop 13 is a terrible idea, I loath racist reporting. Btw, those who benefit from something will NEVER disagree with it.

Blue says

California rich commies would always defend 1978 Prop 13 to loot the state!
No example is enough to convince rich to stop looting.
https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2022/04/california-prop-13-neighborhoods/
The owner of a 6,740-square-foot mansion in San Francisco estimated to be worth $9 million paid $5,625 in property taxes in 2020, according to the Tax Fairness Project, which analyzed county tax records and market values in home buying websites such as Zillow. Across the bay in Richmond, the owner of a 991-square-foot home worth $331,000 and in need of repairs paid almost as much tax at $5,240.
Where-else this kind of tax out of control disproportions exist at state, these numbers are much wider for businesses!
https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/

How does wanting to limit the amount of money the Gov takes from you yearly based upon a perceived valuation that utilizes currency that is manipulated with continuous negative adjustments make one a commie?