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RWSGFY
2013 Oct 21, 6:56am
They are "pissed off" just for show: any foreign government is fair game for spying and they do exactly the same. In this case NSA should be lauded for doing its job. It's the US citizens who are protected by US Constitution, not some foreigners in the foreign lands.
As for potential loss of business caused by this revelation - the responsibility lies with Snowden and Snowden only.
FortWayne
2013 Oct 21, 9:37am
They are "pissed off" just for show: any foreign government is fair game for spying and they do exactly the same. In this case NSA should be lauded for doing its job. It's the US citizens who are protected by US Constitution, not some foreigners in the foreign lands.
As for potential loss of business caused by this revelation - the responsibility lies with Snowden and Snowden only.
Golden rule in life is that governments will do to you the same they do to others.
Sure you might ok spying on foreigners, but you give our government too much credit if you think they are not going to turn it on you.
Dan8267
2013 Oct 21, 11:33am
As for potential loss of business caused by this revelation - the responsibility lies with Snowden and Snowden only.
Bullshit. The backdoors that U.S. IT companies put into products is to blame. Even if Snowden didn't reveal them, eventually they would be discovered and everyone would be pissed. Companies could get their ass sued off in Europe for that shit, too.
RWSGFY
2013 Oct 21, 11:52am
The backdoors that U.S. IT companies put into products is to blame.
Again, not illegal if used against foreign subjects overseas. And yes, everybody does it. If you think that SAP, Alcatel or Huawei don't provide backdoors to their respective spy agencies, I have a bridge to sell you.
Even if Snowden didn't reveal them, eventually they would be discovered and everyone would be pissed. Companies could get their ass sued off in Europe for that shit, too.
But they weren't discovered until Snowden's leak. I can't remember a single case of a company getting sued for a backdoor in their software or hardware, can you?
RWSGFY
2013 Oct 21, 11:56am
Golden rule in life is that governments will do to you the same they do to others.
That's why we have a Constitution which says what government can't do to its citizens. You can't seriously argue that the only way to prevent government from, say, shelling Boomfuck, AZ with tank cannons is to deny government access to tanks. Same shit with spying capabilities: they are needed against enemy but prohibited to be used against own citizens.
Dan8267
2013 Oct 21, 3:05pm
Again, not illegal if used against foreign subjects oversea
Whether or not it's illegal -- and it is in the foreign countries like France -- is irrelevant. It's still going to cause companies to not use American IT products simply to make sure their trade secrets aren't stolen.
I can't remember a single case of a company getting sued for a backdoor in their software or hardware, can you?
Evidently you never heard of Sony, the megacompany sued for installing rootkits illegally on people's machines. It was damn big news in the IT industry.
http://www.informationweek.com/sony-sued-for-rootkit-copy-protection/173601761
Yes, violating users' trust is a very serious thing in business, especially if you want people to adopt your platform.
FortWayne
2013 Oct 22, 6:47am
That's why we have a Constitution which says what government can't do to its citizens. You can't seriously argue that the only way to prevent government from, say, shelling Boomfuck, AZ with tank cannons is to deny government access to tanks. Same shit with spying capabilities: they are needed against enemy but prohibited to be used against own citizens.
Yes I can seriously argue that, because I know that they'll do everything they can get away with. They might not get away with bombing a town in AZ because it might make national news. But they get away with prison labor, civil rights abuses, corporate cronyism, SPYING on you, Military industrial complex, big oil, and many other things...
If you are paying attention you would have noticed that governments have a tendency to ignore laws they don't care for and reinterpret everything to fit their own view point. A lot of laws are only enforced onto those who can't afford to break them... such as you and me.
FortWayne
2013 Oct 22, 6:50am
Evidently you never heard of Sony, the megacompany sued for installing rootkits illegally on people's machines. It was damn big news in the IT industry.
That sure explains why whenever I spoke to computer guys, they never liked Sony. Live and learn, something new every day.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/21/snowden-leaks-france-us-envoy-nsa-surveillance
Pissing off our allies and risking turning them into enemies hurts our national security more than it could ever benefit from warrantless wiretapping.
Also imaging the trillions of dollars of lost economic opportunity as first world nations refuse to use any US-based IT products in fear of being spied upon. The NSA is the greatest threat to our economy ever.