patrick.net

thomaswong.1986 says

New Renter says

OK, got it.

oh there is a big difference btwn coffee/donuts and some coke head... BIG DIFFERENCE

but you are the one claiming marijuana is a potential slippery slope to hard drugs. I am merely pointing out he same logic can also be used to show a morning coffee, doughnut and a kiss from the wife can lead to meth.

Pot is the choice antidepressant of msnbc groupies as they seek to escape the consequences of the political agenda they've adopted.

SoftShell says

Pot is the choice antidepressant of msnbc groupies as they seek to escape the consequences of the political agenda they've adopted.

Conservatism itself is a drug. The rightwing watches Fox like porn because jerking it to men wearing blond wigs isn't sinful if you pretend they're women.

Of course, cocaine is the drug of choice for bagger congressmen. In fairness, they only got addicted to coke by being a raging alcoholics first. Love the sinner, hate the sin!

Still reminds me that the most vociferous republicans are usually secretly on drugs, and cheating on their wives with underage male prostitutes.

Ceffer says

No, I am not going to waste bandwidth doing research for anybody who will not listen, anyway.

I'm more than willing to listen. I have no vested interest in either side. However, I reserve the right to be skeptical and critical. After all, there have been numerous debunked "studies" that were so flawed it had to be intentional. Lies like marijuana causes heart attacks, kills brain cells, etc.

So, if you have read anything that persuaded you to believe that marijuana is harmful, present it here so that we can determine if it's truthful or not. The argument "there's lots of evidence out there but I'm not going to cite it" is weak indeed.

And yes, I've done a lot of research on this subject as well before coming to my opinion. And after all that research, I could not find one study that wasn't fraudulent to the extent of being comically ridiculous.

Ceffer says

In the 70's, cocaine was promoted as being "harmless". A nice buzz that didn't do any harm. Fast Forward.

I've never heard of cocaine as being promoted as harmless since the 1920s when it was in everything. In any case, marijuana is not cocaine just like Ritalin is not cocaine.

By the way, I have yet to hear a sensible reason why Ritalin is legal but marijuana is not. Can someone explain this? Other than Ritalin is patented and marijuana is not.

Ceffer says

I am pro legalization of pot. However, just because a mind altering substance is "legal" does not mean that intoxication under any circumstances is legal, it just means that society now has the burden of establishing when, where, how and to what extent using and intoxication pass a legal limit.

True, and the exact same burden applies to alcohol, a far more commonly used drug, and all pharmaceuticals. Why treat marijuana differently?

Ceffer says

Little Johnny comes up to Dad and says, "Dad, I love hanging out with the pot smokers at school, they are so cool, I am smoking a couple of doobies a day, now."

The problem you are describing is adolescents valuing the wrong things in role models and friends. This problem has nothing to do with pot. It has existed since there were adolescents and it will exist no matter what, if any, drugs are available. You could remove the word "pot" and your scenario would apply to cigarette smokers just as well.

In any case, the cool kids will always be: the pretty girls and the guys banging the pretty girls. That is what determines coolness. You could reward high academic achievements with "doobies" and the mathletes would still not be considered cool.

Ceffer says

Dad: "Well, son, pot is completely harmless, nobody has ever overdosed from it and nobody can prove that it has ever been implicated in any deaths by accident, ignorance, attention span deficit, operation of cars etc. etc. so go ahead and enjoy!" If you tell son that he shouldn't do that, you obviously believe in the harm potential of smoking pot and hanging around with potheads. Tell me as a pot evangilist that you are telling your young children that smoking pot is OK.

Here you go

http://www.BGh20gu7Fyw

Now granted, the THC was not in the marijuana oil, but THC has been used to treat cancel patients.

As for me, I'm a rationalist, and I have yet to see one piece of evidence or even rational reason to believe that pot is bad for children.

Now, I have never used any mind-altering drugs because I consider the high they provide to be a false high. And I would instill similar values on my children, but I would hardly consider it harmful if I had a child that did smoke pot as long as he or she understood the difference from an earned high from accomplishing something vs an unearned, false high.

As for hanging around potheads, any parent has to judge the company his/her kids keep, but that judgement should be based on the actions of the people, not some stereotype. That's not to say that most "potheads" aren't lazy, stupid asses. Hell, most people are lazy, stupid asses.

Ceffer says

You are an employer who is in charge of operating cranes at the dockyard hauling expensive loads. You have one employee who is an inveterate pot smoker, another who doesn't use anything. Which would you choose to operate your machinery? If you say the guy who doesn't use anything, then you obviously believe that pot use is potentially harmful.

If the person is not high at the time, it does not matter. If you are suggesting that a person who uses pot often must be high all the time, then show the evidence that this is true.

In any case, there are people called "alcoholics" who have to be drunk all the time. Such persons should not be operating heavy machinery or explosives either. But we don't lock people up for drinking beer or wine. At least, not anymore? Why should marijuana be any different at all? If anything, alcohol is far more destructive and deadly.

Ceffer says

You have been stoking on some really good ganja and your children are in the car with you. You aren't paying attention, and one of them goes through the windshield when you brake and have an accident.

There has been more evidence that pot use does not lead to accidents than there is suggesting it does. See previous threads.

However, if we accept your premise than either
1. Pot should still be legal like alcohol, but driving while under the influence of any drug (including legal pharmaceuticals like cold medicine) should be illegal.
2. All things that increase the chance of an accident occurring should be illegal even if the person isn't driving while using them including: alcohol, mobile phones, mobile computers, fast food, newspapers, makeup, loud children.

If we are to be rational about this, once again, marijuana is hardly the worse of those things by any standard.

Ceffer says

Nicotine and alcohol are extremely harmful, and legal, and you will find people who will claim that those do no harm, either, and that nobody can prove it, it's all just a conspiracy to kill their buzz.

Therefore, if anyone claims that X is not harmful, then X must be harmful. For example, I claim that clean air is not harmful, therefore clean air must be harmful. Bob claims that exercise is harmful, therefore no one should exercise.

Do you see the flaw in this logic? It's called Guilt By Association.

New Renter says

lothomaswong.1986 says

New Renter says

Well with that you might as well ban mountain climbing.

Never trust anyone stoned on drugs to do anything.

So don't trust anyone who's had a cup of coffee, eaten a doughnut, dodged a bullet , is in love, ... basically don't trust anyone, ever for anything.

OK, got it.

So very true. Love causes the release of phenylethylamine, dopamine, and oxytocin, highly addictive chemicals and the primary reasons that users of various drugs take those drugs.

In other words, love is a highly addictive chemical high that alters the mind and makes people act stupid, as anyone who's actually been in love knows is true.

SoftShell says

Pot is the choice antidepressant of msnbc groupies as they seek to escape the consequences of the political agenda they've adopted.

Underneath the lies, the truth is often found.

Shrek demonstrates that the real reason conservatives are so anti-marijuana has nothing to do with real effects of the drug, but rather a culture war.

I guess if NASCAR was sponsored by pot, then conservatives would love it. [Pssst... nobody tell the conservatives that hippies drink beer too.]

Dan8267 says

numerous debunked "studies" that were so flawed it had to be intentional

They knew the truth 40 years ago, and a corrupt leadership chose the path of human misery in order to further their political ambitions. As Obama, of course, continues to do.

"On March 22, 1972, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse — chaired by former Pennsylvania Governor Raymond P. Shafer — recommended that Congress amend federal law so that the use and possession of cannabis would no longer be a criminal offense. State legislatures, the Commission added, should do likewise.

“[T]he criminal law is too harsh a tool to apply to personal possession even in the effort to discourage use,” concluded the 13-member Commission, which included nine hand-picked appointees of then-President Richard Nixon. “It implies an overwhelming indictment of the behavior which we believe is not appropriate. The actual and potential harm of use of the drug is not great enough to justify intrusion by the criminal law into private behavior, a step which our society takes only with the greatest reluctance.

“… Therefore, the Commission recommends … [that the] possession of marijuana for personal use no longer be an offense, [and that the] casual distribution of small amounts of marihuana for no remuneration, or insignificant remuneration, no longer be an offense.”

Members of the Commission further acknowledged that marijuana did not meet the criteria of a schedule I controlled substance under federal law, a classification that places cannabis along side heroin as a prohibited substance without any therapeutic value.

Nonetheless Nixon, true to his ‘law-and-order’ roots, shelved the report and its recommendations — announcing instead, “We need, and I use the word ‘all out war,’ on all fronts.” Since Nixon’s rejection of the Shafer report, annual data from the FBI reports that more than 21.5 million Americans have been arrested and criminally prosecuted for violating marijuana laws. Upwards of 80 percent of those arrested were for charged with possession only offenses, not sales or trafficking."

CL says

Still reminds me that the most vociferous republicans are usually secretly on drugs, and cheating on their wives with underage male prostitutes.

To be fair, some of the prostitutes are female.

For every argument made against pot, you can substitute the word sugar, and the statement holds true.

This begs the question, why are all these sugar addicts wasting breath fighting the states war against marijuana, while guzzling the number one gateway drug,toxic sugar by the spoonful?

It seems that its for a variety of reason, the primary reason being that sugar use makes the user stupid. The secondary reason being that the sugar addicts are in denial, and have a healthy fear of their own arguments against marijuana being used against them. If society breaks the current de-evolutionary sugar-high trend, and people can defeat their sugar addictions. Cease the numbing of their brains, caused by sugar consumption. And come to their senses, maybe we can enjoy a better future where humans utilize marijuana for all of its healthful benefits, and treat sugar the way they treat marijuana today, and break the chains of addiction so many suffer from today.

donjumpsuit says

Unlike all other drugs, alcohol, and tobacco, cannabis contains compounds that are nearly chemically and physiologically similar to those found inside our own human brain.

the same is true for the poppy plants to produce morphine/heroin.

there are many good uses for cannabis, poppy, coco leaves which can under strong
control be used to extract beneficial medicine for patients.

But no .. not decriminalization.. and not to be used for 'recreational' purposes...

There is no logical reason why cannabis was criminalized in the first place, except to deny minorities the right to vote from selective enforcement, to feed the for-profit prison system, and to prevent cheap, patent-free pain medication that has no side effects and would kill major profits for the pharmaceutical industry. But there is no socially justifiable reason why cannabis is illegal.

Dan8267 says

But there is no socially justifiable reason why cannabis is illegal.

So by your (twisted) standards ...Sobriety is not enough! so due to evidence provided, you are now against govt regulations...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history_of_cannabis_in_the_United_States#Criminalization_.281900s.29

Dan8267 says

except to deny minorities the right to vote from selective enforcement, to feed the for-profit prison system, and to prevent cheap, patent-free pain medication that has no side effects and would kill major profits for the pharmaceutical industry.

You are talking about the US here right ? So why is it illegal in many other
nations ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Opium_Convention

The International Opium Convention, signed at The Hague on January 23, 1912 during the First International Opium Conference, was the first international drug control treaty. It was registered in League of Nations Treaty Series on January 23, 1922.[1] The United States convened a 13-nation conference of the International Opium Commission in 1909 in Shanghai, China in response to increasing criticism of the opium trade. The treaty was signed by Germany, the United States, China, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Persia, Portugal, Russia, and Siam. The Convention provided that "The contracting Powers shall use their best endeavours to control, or to cause to be controlled, all persons manufacturing, importing, selling, distributing, and exporting morphine, cocaine, and their respective salts, as well as the buildings in which these persons carry such an industry or trade."

The Convention was implemented in 1915 by the United States, Netherlands, China, Honduras, and Norway. It went into force globally in 1919 when it was incorporated into the Treaty of Versailles.

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

But there is no socially justifiable reason why cannabis is illegal.

So by your (twisted) standards ...Sobriety is not enough! so due to evidence provided, you are now against govt regulations...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history_of_cannabis_in_the_United_States#Criminalization_.281900s.29

I have no idea what you are talking about, but the fact that you quoted Wikipedia makes me think it's nonsense.

thomaswong.1986 says

You are talking about the US here right ? So why is it illegal in many other

nations ?

Every country has brain-dead, irrational, religious nutjobs that lobby for victimless crimes in the name of their unfounded and incorrect beliefs.

The better question is why should marijuana be illegal. And for any reason you give, apply that also to alcohol, prescription drugs, smart phones, and everything else, not just pot.

Dan8267 says

I have no idea what you are talking about, but the fact that you quoted Wikipedia makes me think it's nonsense.

of course you dont... history doesnt matter ... Wikipedia.. the evolution of human learning and knowledge! Let me guess.. its Progress when it only suites you.. and furthers/backs up your political agenda...

Dan8267 says

Every country has brain-dead, irrational, religious nutjobs that lobby for victimless crimes in the name of their unfounded and incorrect beliefs.

so much for that rational scientific conclusion many back then came up with...

Oh, and yes, this year's Black Friday was more dangerous than pot.

http://www.n_adgG8Ba2Q

http://www.hHsFwjXCE9M

http://www.yFQa7oIUcX0

http://www.RisWVGyuvcI

http://www.Cv-qG0ICqbA
Yes, they are now tasing each other.

http://www.6JPIsaBi0uo

Yeah, but it's pot that's illegal. Hell, pot should be mandatory under law for all these assholes going out on Black Friday, just to mellow them out and make them less violent.

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

I have no idea what you are talking about, but the fact that you quoted Wikipedia makes me think it's nonsense.

of course you dont... history doesnt matter ... Wikipedia.. the evolution of human learning and knowledge! Let me guess.. its Progress when it only suites you.. and furthers/backs up your political agenda...

According to Wikipedia, Plato was an ancient surfer and weatherman in Hawaii and the pupil of Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Try quoting real sources like I do.

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

Every country has brain-dead, irrational, religious nutjobs that lobby for victimless crimes in the name of their unfounded and incorrect beliefs.

so much for that rational scientific conclusion many back then came up with...

What rational scientific conclusion? What science? What reasoning? You haven't stated any justification for criminalizing marijuana usage, nonetheless explained why other countries have criminalized it.

You haven't sited any scientific study. And you go look for any, you'll find all the anti-marijuana studies are fraudulently wrong and discredited.

I've actually played devil's advocate and searched long and hard for a single, rational reason to make marijuana illegal. I found none. Lots of bullshit reasons based on falsehoods. No legitimate reason. No reason based on any truth.

Dan8267 says

Try quoting real sources like I do.

such as NORML and High Times ?

Dan8267 says

What rational scientific conclusion? What science? What reasoning? You haven't stated any justification for criminalizing marijuana usage, nonetheless explained why other countries have criminalized it.

Seems like many nations came to the same conclusion...

Yea Yea Yea.. you want your Weedies... cant start the day without it...

Have you tried sobriety !

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

Every country has brain-dead, irrational, religious nutjobs that lobby for victimless crimes in the name of their unfounded and incorrect beliefs.

so much for that rational scientific conclusion many back then came up with...

Which rational scientific conclusion did many back then come up with?

Marijuana was criminalized, the same way all laws come into existence. Corporations using government to stamp out the competition. DuPont and William Randolph Hearst,,,but I thought everyone already knew the simplest of facts on this issue. The usfedgov utilized propaganda that niggers and mexicans would get all highed up on marijuana, and then come rape all the white women

Dan8267 says

There is no logical reason why cannabis was criminalized in the first place, except to deny minorities the right to vote from selective enforcement, to feed the for-profit prison system, and to prevent cheap, patent-free pain medication that has no side effects and would kill major profits for the pharmaceutical industry. But there is no socially justifiable reason why cannabis is illegal.

And to stop cheap, renewable hemp from competing with Hearst's forests and pulp mills, while giving jobs to the Liquor Control officials after Alcohol was re-legalized.

errc says

Which rational scientific conclusion did many back then come up with?

Marijuana was criminalized, the same way all laws come into existence. Corporations using government to stamp out the competition. DuPont and William Randolph Hearst,,,but I thought everyone already knew the simplest of facts on this issue. The usfedgov utilized propaganda that niggers and mexicans would get all highed up on marijuana, and then come rape all the white women

where does asprin come from ? Willow Bark.. so did the govt ban Asprin or the many other drugs extracted from vegetation/plants ?

if its all "usfedgov", then why was it made illegal where there were no blacks/mexicans, such China/Japan and Europe. And of course all other nations in Latin America and Africa also made it illegal. Your reason doesnt make sense...

Distorted sense of time
Anxiety / Paranoia / Depression
Magical or "random" thinking
Short-term memory loss
Lowers men's testosterone levels
Schizophrenia Risks
Withdrawal symptoms

Stoners ... where are they today !

errc says

DuPont and William Randolph Hearst,,,

Your drug pusher is alot worst than the two you listed...he will make sure
you come back for more...

Did he pay income taxes on the income and keep it in foreign
bank accounts .... yea.... but thats another story !

Where did all your MONEY go all these years.. decades... a lifetime ???

Your pusher is living it up !

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/30/un-drugs-policy-split-leaked-paper

anonymous says

Anyway here is an image for your continued campaign:

Yes.. I been there many times.. its right down the street !

anonymous says

thomaswong.1986 Please answer my question from this past Sunday. What are you promoting/advocating/talking about with "sobriety" thingy? What you described below is a textbook definition of a chronic heavy drinker

Distorted sense of time

Anxiety / Paranoia / Depression

Magical or "random" thinking

Short-term memory loss

Lowers men's testosterone levels

Schizophrenia Risks

Withdrawal symptoms

Stoners ... where are they today ! Just change this to boozers..

Go ahead.. get a criminal record of being busted for pot..
see how far your life and career go!

I seen way too many people become addicts.. enough not to gamble what

some chimp has to say about it.. your playing a very dangerous game with drugs.

you will always be better off being sober...

Fuck sobriety

All the most motivated, intelligent, succesful people I know,,,smoke some grass from time to time.

All the fat slobs of piss poor health and diet, spirit, body, and mind, are drinkers

I don't associate much with sober bores, so can't offer much opinion.

errc says

Fuck sobriety

All the most motivated, intelligent, succesful people I know,,,smoke some grass from time to time.

motivated intelligent successful people dont need grass to do that...
they have their other passion to occupy their time to create their success.

Who said they need it?

They just enjoy it.

LOL! oh look what we have here....

Efforts to relax US marijuana laws lose benefactor

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101235725

With the death of Cleveland billionaire and philanthropist Peter B. Lewis, the push for relaxed U.S. marijuana laws lost its most generous supporter. That's left supporters wondering what comes next.

Lewis, chairman of Progressive Insurance, died Saturday at age 80. Since the 1980s, he had donated an estimated $40 million to $60 million to marijuana law reform including underwriting ballot campaigns, research, political polling and legal defense efforts.

( the following sentence should be of some interest to the so called Occupy the 1% )

Largely through Lewis' efforts, and those of several other billionaires, 20 states since 1996 have passed medical marijuana laws, 17 have decriminalized the drug and two have passed legalization language

I couldn't possibly care less if pot were legal. Seems to me to be a great opportunity for tax revenue that, for once, doesn't affect me, the lowest member of the 1%.

However, I have to say that back in my dating days, I dated a few guys who were regular pot users. In my experience, I found every single one of them to be painfully stupid (inarticulate... S-M-R-T-smart, if you know I mean.... you know, so stupid that you begin feeling bad because you're making fun of them and they don't even realize it.)

Now, I've never used the stuff, myself, so I can't be absolutely sure.... But I've definitely seen a correlation between regular pot use and.... how can I say this nicely... minor brain damage. I admit, I haven't dated every regular pot user on the planet, so my sample size is a tad small and, therefore, my theory may be flawed.... Or, I was just a very tough first date.

turtledove says

I couldn't possibly care less if pot were legal.

If it were just about pot, I'd agree. But the war on drugs is a crime against humanity.

The following article is enough to make you sick.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/20/war-on-drugs-420_n_3117993.html