patrick.net

jazz music says

Reagan was the beginning of the end of middle class American life, (which allowed many freedoms) the beginning of unheard of national debt, and the beginning of excessive economic inequality.

your going to blame Reagan for the general public going insane and actually believing the typical $100K home somehow increased by 4-5 times in price in a matter of a few years...

"Just Say No !" Best thing for everyone!

jazz music says

Reagan dismantled labor protection, incentivized off-shoring, started unpaid war on drugs, and unpaid tax cuts for the rich so that trickle down would happen. At the same time policies were erected to flood profits to anonymous offshore tax havens,

I was not aware that Reagan or the US Govt control Irelands Govt who set up the Island as a low tax European HQ for many companies doing business in Europe, Middle East and Russia. Of course Delaware is a similar Tax Heaven Joe Bidden has been backing since he entered govt. Any idea why every US and foreign corporation is registered in Delaware, but have no offices there ?

Offshoring is the result of the Berger court (Carter) who disallowed US companies from suing foreign companies for product dumping below coats. (See Zenith case).

Drive all USA corporations into bankrupcy ? and where do the jobs come from ? Nice ! You work for Samsung, Chinese Steel or Renault maybe ? I mean really!
talk about competition...

thomaswong.1986 says

your going to blame Reagan for the general public going insane and actually believing the typical $100K home somehow increased by 4-5 times in price in a matter of a few years...

First of all, it's you're, not "your".

Second, he said it STARTED with Reagan. It continued after Reagan was out of office. The public "going insane" was not the cause of the bubble. Deregulating banks was the cause. The banks overleveraged themselves and gave credit to people who weren't worthy of it, then sold off the loans for a little short-term profit at the expense of solvency. Then when the banking system came crashing down, the wealthy were made whole and the middle class was decimated, by force of government.

Homeboy says

The public "going insane" was not the cause of the bubble. Deregulating banks was the cause. The banks overleveraged themselves and gave credit to people who weren't worthy of it,

it doesnt matter what loans and who... its about VALUATIONS. its always about valuations when it comes to bubbles... the bottom line no matter what loan you received or what rates you get... PRICE is what matters.. Show me when did we EVER have prices double triple in less than 10 years ?

How do you even explain those who paid in cash and saw losses when sold...

It was the PUBLIC that went insane.. Proof is given by Robert Shiller...

http://www.d__GPqOVNbE

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

homaswong.1986 says

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

"You cunts are fired. Someone get me the paper and an iced tea and maybe we'll have a nice story to tell the Belmont police."

LOL! opps you might want to change Tea.. it has Caffeine... a no no for Mormons.

Dr Pepper?

nope... gonna have to try again...

Homeboy says

Then when the banking system came crashing down, the wealthy were made whole and the middle class was decimated, by force of government.

Bull shit... once again, look back and how many denied home prices NEVER go down, denied even home prices even in California crashed 30-40%. Yet all the bubble heads who thought paying 500-600K on a otherwize 200K home expecting to magically climb to $ 1.5 M nest egg.

middle class my ass... i say throw them out and let them pay the price for that bullshit thinking.. save their ass NO FUCKING WAY....

http://www.bEZB4taSEoA

thomaswong.1986 says

it doesnt matter what loans and who... its about VALUATIONS. its always about valuations when it comes to bubbles... the bottom line no matter what loan you received or what rates you get... PRICE is what matters.. Show me when did we EVER have prices double triple in less than 10 years ?

How do you even explain those who paid in cash and saw losses when sold...

It was the PUBLIC that went insane.. Proof is given by Robert Shiller...

You need to learn how to read, Thomas.

I wrote: "The public "going insane" was not the cause of the bubble. Deregulating banks was the cause. "

Apparently, what you READ was "The public acted in a completely rational manner." That is not what I wrote. You have made up a strawman argument that I was defending the choices of consumers to overpay for homes, and you are happily wailing away at this strawman. Except I never said that. Oops. You suck.

I said the CAUSE of the bubble was banks being deregulated. We did not, as you apparently believe, have an epidemic of mass insanity that suddenly appeared in 2004, and never existed at any other time in history. What HAPPENED was that banks began giving out credit like candy on Halloween. The banks DELIBERATELY gave loans to people who were not credit-worthy, packaged the loans as securities, got the value of those securities fraudulently over-rated, then sold them off. If you can't see what happened, then you are burying your head in the sand.

thomaswong.1986 says

Bull shit... once again, look back and how many denied home prices NEVER go down, denied even home prices even in California crashed 30-40%. Yet all the bubble heads who thought paying 500-600K on a otherwize 200K home expecting to magically climb to $ 1.5 M nest egg.

middle class my ass... i say throw them out and let them pay the price for that bullshit thinking.. save their ass NO FUCKING WAY....

Strawman. I never said to "save" any underwater homeowners. In fact, at the time, I was very much against bailing out homeowners, as I was against bailing out ANYONE. A lot of those people were part of the problem. Rich people buy a lot of real estate too, and I don't think ANYONE is entitled to a "do over" for making a bad financial decision. See, you are so mired in your black and white partisan thinking, you just ASSUME what my position is going to be on an issue. Stop thinking the way Rush Limbaugh tells you to think, and start trying to have an original thought once in awhile.

Yeah, the powers-that-be tried to spin all the bailouts as being about helping the "poor homeowners", but that was just a lame rationalization. The REAL reason for the bailouts was to systematically transfer wealth from the middle class to the upper class. The investor class was about to get their asses handed to them because of their bad decisions, so they staged a coup and essentially took over the federal government. And if you don't believe me, look at a chart of wealth disparity in the U.S., and see how it changed. The real losers in this are renters and middle class potential first-time buyers, who may never get the chance to own a house. I NEVER bought into that "helping homeowners" bullshit.

And no, I'm not a "bitter renter". I waited out the bubble and bought a house. It was more than I should have had to pay, but I got in, which it looks like may soon become impossible for the middle class again.

Homeboy says

I said the CAUSE of the bubble was banks being deregulated. We did not, as you apparently believe, have an epidemic of mass insanity that suddenly appeared in 2004, and never existed at any other time in history. What HAPPENED was that banks began giving out credit like candy on Halloween.

Again, your reason of "cause" is the same reason Shiller quotes, irrational expectations of future appreciation by the whole pubic.. and that includes govt and banks who lend money .. Do you remember all the crazy talk... "always going up double digit"... "RE Never goes down"... etc etc You can go back to late 90s for the beginning of the madness.

You can go back to the mid to late 80s as prices inflated and then fell. did we not have the same regulations before ? It still didnt matter, because the public went insane. Many people I have seen ignored and denied any price crash in California. They always kept saying prices are always higher. Even though they were not. And today you still hear the same story.

We also saw similar situation with the Stock bubble... even WITH REGULATIONS
like the SEC act of 33/34 the public ignored financial results in favor of some
crazy "click" matrix. So we saw a bubble in Stocks regardless of regulations. And we are seeing it today with Social Media Network stocks.

The markets are "psychologically" driven..

Homeboy says

The banks DELIBERATELY gave loans to people who were not credit-worthy, packaged the loans as securities, got the value of those securities fraudulently over-rated, then sold them off. If you can't see what happened, then you are burying your head in the sand.

None of this mattered if the selling prices was half as much.
And therefore your risk would be cut far lower to minuscule...
and therefore there would have been very few foreclose.

Fact is many took these loans regardless of any consequence,
would have used standard conventional loans.

YOU have to prove the cause of PRICE ESCALATION on these
ridiculous old and run down homes you have in your area as I have
in mine..

You throw regulation back on the books, it wont matter, like it was back
in the late 80s ... people have this crazy mental idea on RE WEALTH creation.
But still prices go down.. as Shiller pointed out...

Homeboy says

I waited out the bubble and bought a house. It was more than I should have had to pay, but I got in, which it looks like may soon become impossible for the middle class again.

well clearly many did not and many should have followed your reasoning.

Homeboy says

he real losers in this are renters and middle class potential first-time buyers, who may never get the chance to own a house. I NEVER bought into that "helping homeowners" bullshit.

And there lies the issues.. the middle class is being screwed by govt interference, the more people point to wealth disparity the more govt interference you will have.

clearly the govt, is in favor of higher valuations that drive higher property tax collections. they need to get out of the housing business.

jazz music says

These businesses are very skillful in influencing policy to their benefit. So BANKS GOT BAILED OUT and coddled while conservative commentators made hay whipping up listeners into a frenzy over potential moral hazard in helping the borrowers.

Your bank account was bailed out.. more accurately stated, account holders be they individuals, small to large business, government agencies, and all others like educational entities and church (non profits) were made whole.

you think someone like Apple with a bank balance of $10 Billion to pay for salaries, vendors, and taxes payable in 3 month period will get covered by the FDIC ?

had they not, do you expect your employer to cut the payroll or make payments to vendors. how about govt and colleges that have similar payments to make ?

Like it or not.. that was the only move anyone could make...

Call it Crazy says

Obama voters don't want a job and don't want to work.... They like the gov't gravy train better!!

Damn few people want to work. Nobody wants to work for someone else or for a corporation.

However, most people are willing to work to support themselves and their families. The reason for the high unemployment isn't that people aren't willing to work; the reason is that capitalism has failed to fully utilize the workforce and is wasting human capital.

thomaswong.1986 says

they will still be blaming Bush ... even in 2016.

The terrible policies of the Bush administrations will be negatively impacting life in 2016 and 2050. The policies passed and vetoed by presidents have effects that last decades if not centuries.

Hell, most of the evil legislation that Bush passed is still active, for example, the US Nazi Patriot Act. As long as that vile act is law, Bush is still fucking up our country.

jazz music says

Ok so buyers got bullied by realtors, friends and families into signing "innovative financial products" such as stated income loans, (liar loans) ARMs with balloon payments

States income loans have been around for a long time.. many used by small business owners and consultants who have no W-2. and how many Americans run their own business as a sole proprietorship ? LOTS How do they prove their incomes ? Ask around the small business owners you meet or know.

Dan8267 says

Hell, most of the evil legislation that Bush passed is still active, for example, the US Nazi Patriot Act. As long as that vile act is law, Bush is still fucking up our country.

Hello 911.. we got attacked by a bunch of inbreed swines... ring a bell ?

jazz music says

The only things that saved me from participating was 1) the expense of a 1997 contested divorce, 2) second wife driving me into debt, 3) I knew 2001 real estate was a sucker set up since I was paying off a house in Pasadena, CA since 1985 and realized there's no way you could ever pay for a house at those prices on what an engineer can make.

That little old $145k house I sold to my first wife for $190k in 1997, she refied it 3 times then her family sold it for $636k in 2005.

But everyone wants to live in SoCal right ? and prices in Socal never go down !

errc says

One thing the democrat fan base seems to often forget, is that hispanics are for the most part, more conservative then those weekly churchgoing whites. They run the danger of showing their true colors, and the hispanics realizing that the elitists hate them as well, not just the poor white trash GOP voters.

Of course, this is simply not even true, although conservatives have repeated it enough I don't blame you for thinking it.

Traditionally, Latinos have supported economic liberalism, but the great hope of Republicans was that they were so ardently Catholic that they'd surely embrace our anti-abortion, anti-woman, anti-condom policies.

But they don't. They even support gay marriage and abortion at LARGER numbers than the general population.

Given the voting trends, there is no reason to think that the misogynist and anti-immigrant party will be doing any better in 2016.

The real thing the right should fear is if ethnic minorities and the rest of the Obama coalition decide to show up in midterm elections.

Then, you're fucked.

Bitcoins arent the future? says

Not that Romney was any better, but heres a small infographic about who to blame the current president on...

bwahahahah!!

And Obama killed in the category of post-graduate.

Of course, he lead in "some college" and "high school graduate" as well.

So I guess if you add up each category, he won the election across educational backgrounds, but really did great in "extra smart".

Dan8267 says

thomaswong.1986 says

they will still be blaming Bush ... even in 2016.

The terrible policies of the Bush administrations will be negatively impacting life in 2016 and 2050. The policies passed and vetoed by presidents have effects that last decades if not centuries.

Hell, most of the evil legislation that Bush passed is still active, for example, the US Nazi Patriot Act. As long as that vile act is law, Bush is still fucking up our country.

I frankly think they didn't blame him enough. Despite what the rightwingers say, Obama barely ever mentioned Bush as the source of America's collapse.

thomaswong.1986 says

You can go back to the mid to late 80s as prices inflated and then fell. did we not have the same regulations before ?

Wow. You have absolutely no idea how tiny that bubble was compared to the 2000s bubble, do you?

thomaswong.1986 says

Your bank account was bailed out..

Bullshit. Personal savings accounts are covered by FDIC insurance. And a savings account is YOUR money. You aren't being reimbursed for an investment loss. Not the same thing AT ALL.

CL says

And Obama killed in the category of post-graduate.

Of course, he lead in "some college" and "high school graduate" as well.

So I guess if you add up each category, he won the election across
educational backgrounds, but really did great in "extra smart".

Romney only wins if we excluded from voting everyone except "college graduate" only, or a combination of "college graduate" and "some college" and "high school graduate.""

College Graduate and Postgrads together, quote unquote top 47% "smartest" Obama wins.

The fact that Romey won Boomers and Obama won everyone younger than Boomers is reason enough to be satified with the results. Every President elected by Boomers has been a disaster.

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

Hell, most of the evil legislation that Bush passed is still active, for example, the US Nazi Patriot Act. As long as that vile act is law, Bush is still fucking up our country.

Hello 911.. we got attacked by a bunch of inbreed swines... ring a bell ?

1. They were members of Al Qaeda, not the KKK.

2. There is absolutely nothing in the evil USA PATRIOT Act that would have prevented 9/11.

3. 9/11 could have been trivially prevented by doing one or both of the following:

a. Lock the fucking cabin doors. Hell, this should have been done even without terrorism. Some drunk ass stock broker in first class could have crashed an airplane thinking he could pilot it better than the crew could.

b. Let all passengers know that they would not be prosecuted for subduing a hijacker. On each plan, there were plenty of able body men would could have taken down the hijackers but didn't out of fear of being arrested for endangering the plane should they play hero. 9/11 happened because it was U.S. policy to negotiate or pretend to negotiate with the hijackers and to prohibit passengers from taking matters into their own hands.

4. To this day, the techniques used in 9/11 would still get pass airport security. The evil patriot act hasn't solved anything.

Homeboy says

Wow. You have absolutely no idea how tiny that bubble was compared to the 2000s bubble, do you?

you be surprised ?

Dan8267 says

2. There is absolutely nothing in the evil USA PATRIOT Act that would have prevented 9/11.

And yet even the Obama administration and democrats NOW acknowledges it has ...

Dan8267 says

1. They were members of Al Qaeda, not the KKK

You might check about inbreeding being very common in arab - middle east.

thomaswong.1986 says

Homeboy says

Wow. You have absolutely no idea how tiny that bubble was compared to the 2000s bubble, do you?

you be surprised ?

Yes, I'm a bit surprised that you didn't know that.

Homeboy says

Bullshit. Personal savings accounts are covered by FDIC insurance. And a savings account is YOUR money. You aren't being reimbursed for an investment loss. Not the same thing AT ALL.

Personal savings.. laughable... and the corporate accounts which run into millions .. for each account holder...which pays for salaries and vendors ... you think 200K or 400K is going to cover that....

guess again! besides there wasnt enought coverage to save even the individual accounts.

Homeboy says

Yes, I'm a bit surprised that you didn't know that.

CA prices dropped by 30-40% mid 90s.. from 89s peak.

No matter.. it was smaller.. but it still was a correction denied by many afterwards.

thomaswong.1986 says

Homeboy says

Yes, I'm a bit surprised that you didn't know that.

CA prices dropped by 30-40% mid 90s.. from 89s peak.

No matter.. it was smaller.. but it still was a correction denied by many afterwards.

http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/california-real-estate-agents-and-california-home-price-case-shiller-velocity/

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

2. There is absolutely nothing in the evil USA PATRIOT Act that would have prevented 9/11.

And yet even the Obama administration and democrats NOW acknowledges it has ...

Any Democrat who thinks the Patriot Act or the NDA are good should be shot as traitors trying to overthrow our republic.

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

1. They were members of Al Qaeda, not the KKK

You might check about inbreeding being very common in arab - middle east.

Do you really want to debate which group of xenophobic, gay-bashing, scientifically illiterate, religious, conservative bigots have more sex with their siblings?

The great irony is that the Christian right and the Islamic extremists have more in common with each other than either has with rational people.

Dan8267 says

Any Democrat who thinks the Patriot Act or the NDA are good should be shot as traitors trying to overthrow our republic.

and you are waiting to have Dems and Obama overturn it anytime now.. right ?

Dan8267 says

Do you really want to debate which group of xenophobic, gay-bashing, scientifically illiterate, religious, conservative bigots have more sex with their siblings?

The great irony is that the Christian right and the Islamic extremists have more in common with each other than either has with rational people.

inbreeding in Middle East per scientific studies is fact.. but you label it as bigoted, no matter when you were free to bash Christians as being inbred in the USA without any facts to back it up.

In fairness to TW, LA did have a 'lost decade'. Case Shiller Index peaked at 100.24 in June, 1990. It didn't hit bottom until March 1996 (73.07). For these metro indexes, the core usually holds up better than the outlying regions.

EBGuy says

In fairness to TW, LA did have a 'lost decade'. Case Shiller Index peaked at 100.24 in June, 1990. It didn't hit bottom until March 1996 (73.07). For these metro indexes, the core usually holds up better than the outlying regions.

Yep, that's a drop of 27%, not quite the " 40% in the early 1990s," says Stuart Gabriel, a University of Southern California finance professor and the director of USC's Lusk Center for Real Estate. but who knows, he may have bee looking at a somewhat different data set.

thomaswong.1986 says

inbreeding in Middle East per scientific studies is fact..

Is it really? Why yes it is!

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/01/world/saudi-arabia-awakes-to-the-perils-of-inbreeding.html

Across the Arab world today an average of 45 percent of married couples are related, according to Dr. Nadia Sakati, a pediatrician and senior consultant for the genetics research center at King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh.

In some parts of Saudi Arabia, particularly in the south, where Mrs. Hefthi was raised, the rate of marriage among blood relatives ranges from 55 to 70 percent, among the highest rates in the world, according to the Saudi government.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6511329

New Renter says

In some parts of Saudi Arabia, particularly in the south, where Mrs. Hefthi was raised, the rate of marriage among blood relatives ranges from 55 to 70 percent, among the highest rates in the world, according to the Saudi government.

and not a single Banjo to be found...

thomaswong.1986 says

New Renter says

In some parts of Saudi Arabia, particularly in the south, where Mrs. Hefthi was raised, the rate of marriage among blood relatives ranges from 55 to 70 percent, among the highest rates in the world, according to the Saudi government.

and not a single Banjo to be found...

I wonder if squealing works as a defense against rape over there...

thomaswong.1986 says

Personal savings.. laughable... and the corporate accounts which run into millions .. for each account holder...which pays for salaries and vendors ... you think 200K or 400K is going to cover that....

guess again! besides there wasnt enought coverage to save even the individual accounts.

Non sequitur, and a strawman.

You wrote, and I quote:

Your bank account was bailed out.. more accurately stated, account holders be they individuals, small to large business, government agencies, and all others like educational entities and church (non profits) were made whole.

YOU are the one who equated individual banks accounts with holdings of corporations and the government. I was the one who said those are not the same thing. You don't seem to ever respond to what I write; you just make up some fictional position that you'd rather argue with.

Serious question: Do you have ADD?