patrick.net

Santa is a fictional character very loosely based on a Greek guy named Nicholas from the 3rd century. Jesus is a fictional character very loosely based on a Middle Eastern guy from the 1st century.

Nicholas was probably white as most ancient Greeks were. Jesus was most certainly not. So yes, repainting Jesus as white is and was racist. The whole reason Jesus was turned into a white skin, blue eye Aryan was to make him more appealing to Europeans. That's it. It was always a lie like everything else in religion.

CL says

My question for the Christians would be, do you think there would be as many avid Christians in the white community had Jesus been black?

Hell, the Republicans today would disown Jesus if he came back as a black man. The ancient and Medieval Europeans would never accept a Moor as a god.

Dan8267 says

Nicholas was probably white as most ancient Greeks were

Why do you assert that? I would think being Mediterranean they would be olive complected with dark features.

You need to travel, isnt that what the Liberals keep saying.

CL says

I would think being Mediterranean they would be olive complected with dark features.

You would be wrong ! They are also white.

The Mediterranean race (sometimes Mediterranid race) is one of the sub-races into which the Caucasian race was categorized by most anthropologists in the late nineteenth to mid-twentieth centuries.

According to various definitions, it was said to be prevalent in Southern Europe (including Southern France), Latin America (through Spanish and Portuguese ancestry), parts of Eastern Europe (including Romania), North Africa, the Horn of Africa, Western Asia, Central Asia and South Asia, and in certain parts of the British Isles and Germany.

It is characterized by medium stature to tall stature, long (dolichocephalic) or moderate (mesocephalic) skull, aquiline nose or straight nose, any hair color, any eye color, and any skin tone, though olive complexion is most common.

Stewart had a hilarious take on this last night:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-12-2013/war-on-christmas---s--t-s-getting-weird-edition

CL says

My question for the Christians would be, do you think there would be as many avid Christians in the white community had Jesus been black? Or was it necessary to expropriate a Jew and a Jewish religion and give him European features for the religion to spread?

But I did like Telly Savalas playing Pontius Pilate.... what a bad ass! Who loves you baby!

Perhaps you may be referring to Hollywood.. and the politics of movie stars and the big motion picture companies jockeying for the big stars they were going to cast.

I guess you would gloss over a white guy playing a Japanese character in the new release of 47 Ronin.. I wonder how pissed the Japanese will get pissed over addition of a white character in one of their well known national stories.

Dan8267 says

Nicholas was probably white as most ancient Greeks were. Jesus was most certainly not. So yes, repainting Jesus as white is and was racist. The whole reason Jesus was turned into a white skin, blue eye Aryan was to make him more appealing to Europeans. That's it. It was always a lie like everything else in religion.

Aryan, would include people from Persian to the Eastern Europe.
Yep... white... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

I take it you seen some Persians on TV lately...

CL says

Dan8267 says

Nicholas was probably white as most ancient Greeks were

Why do you assert that? I would think being Mediterranean they would be olive complected with dark features.

I guess I'd consider that white. Same as Italians.

thomaswong.1986 says

Aryan, would include people from Persian to the Eastern Europe.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Aryan

: It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India.

Sorry for not being pedantic. People usually complain that I'm too much so.

thomaswong.1986 says

You would be wrong ! They are also white.

I knew you'd snatch a quote from Wikipedia. You know, you don't have to defend EVERY inane rightwing talking point, don't you? Further, I'm pretty sure that most of those racial theories are discredited.

thomaswong.1986 says

Yep... white... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

I think you're conflating old racial theories of "Caucasian" with "White Europeans".
Dan8267 says

I guess I'd consider that white. Same as Italians.

Is that informed by genetics, or by social acceptance? It seems as though the Italians, Spanish, North Africans and even the Irish were considered "non-white" in the last century.

thomaswong.1986 says

I guess you would gloss over a white guy playing a Japanese character in the new release of 47 Ronin.. I wonder how pissed the Japanese will get pissed over addition of a white character in one of their well known national stories.

I love Viva Zapata, but I cringe when I see Marlon Brando cast as Zapata, so no. I don't like it when white people are given the roles that an ethnic minority deserves.

Dan8267 says

thomaswong.1986 says

Aryan, would include people from Persian to the Eastern Europe.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Aryan

: It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India.

Sorry for not being pedantic. People usually complain that I'm too much so.

Those people looked different, but they are still white. Not sure if anybody claimed blonde hair and blue eyes, but making the skin color of historic or religious figures an issue by any side in any case is stupid. Political correctness is the biggest scourge of the new millenium.

CL says

Dan8267 says

I guess I'd consider that white. Same as Italians.

Is that informed by genetics, or by social acceptance? It seems as though the Italians, Spanish, North Africans and even the Irish were considered "non-white" in the last century.

Neither. It is based on a Google image search for hot greek model which yields

I'm willing to do more research though. I just need to pick up some more Jergens.

Now we're talking! ;)

CL says

Is that informed by genetics, or by social acceptance? It seems as though the Italians, Spanish, North Africans and even the Irish were considered "non-white" in the last century.

Only the lefties who have been re-educated with cultural awareness are getting
this wrong ..

CL says

It seems as though the Italians, Spanish, North Africans and even the Irish were considered "non-white" in the last century.

The term, race, of course, has no biological meaning. It's just cultural bullshit. It's like the words continent and ocean. They are completely meaningless as used colloquially.

There's only one ocean on planet Earth, but we give it four different names. An imaginary and meaningless line separates the Atlantic from the Pacific both south of Chile and south of South Africa.

And continents? Why the hell is Europe and Asia distinct continents, but Asia and India aren't? The continents are divided and named based on historic and cultural reasons, not geological ones.

Race is the same meaningless crap.

mell says

Political correctness is the biggest scourge of the new millenium.

agree

CL says

I love Viva Zapata, but I cringe when I see Marlon Brando cast as Zapata, so no. I don't like it when white people are given the roles that an ethnic minority deserves.

Personally I think the Italians did some great stuff with Spaghetti Westerns.. even though the cast was 98% Europeans and Filmed in Spain.. No one complained.

thomaswong.1986 says

CL says

Is that informed by genetics, or by social acceptance? It seems as though the Italians, Spanish, North Africans and even the Irish were considered "non-white" in the last century.

Only the lefties who have been re-educated with cultural awareness are getting

this wrong ..

I don't think it has been liberals who characterized the Irish as non-white. I'd say that was likely anti-Catholic conservative bigots.

thomaswong.1986 says

CL says

I love Viva Zapata, but I cringe when I see Marlon Brando cast as Zapata, so no. I don't like it when white people are given the roles that an ethnic minority deserves.

Personally I think the Italians did some great stuff with Spaghetti Westerns.. even though the cast was 98% Europeans and Filmed in Spain.. No one complained.

I do like the movie, and Brando was great. But do you think they could not have hired a Mexican to play one of the most significant Mexican heroes in history? Or is this more Caucaso-normative bullshit meant to appeal to the white racist viewers and studio heads?

CL says

I don't think it has been liberals who characterized the Irish as non-white. I'd say that was likely anti-Catholic conservative bigots.

you have better luck reviewing English/British history for that one ...

CL says

I do like the movie, and Brando was great. But do you think they could not have hired a Mexican to play one of the most significant Mexican heroes in history? Or is this more Caucaso-normative bullshit meant to appeal to the white racist viewers and studio heads?

laughable to just label it all Racist..

http://www.b1COT5g8c7c

CL says

Or is this more Caucaso-normative bullshit meant to appeal to the white racist viewers and studio heads?

I guess you would be equally offended had it been a asian or white musician playing
the blues. No one was offended when Jimi Hendix picked up the axe and became a legend.

Wait, is she claiming Santa is real??

CL says

My question for the Christians would be, do you think there would be as many avid Christians in the white community had Jesus been black? Or was it necessary to expropriate a Jew and a Jewish religion and give him European features for the religion to spread?

Christianity's popularity/spread is not due to the race worshiping it, it is due to the historically dominant cultures worshiping and spreading it (often times forcibly). Those dominant cultures happened to be White and European, but could have just as easily been anything else. Whatver that dominant culture was, would have made JC look as they do.

See the demographics section here for where Christianity is practiced now and the typical demographic of worshipers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

Gods will always look like the dominant practicing demographic, so JC is white today/now. Give it a couple thousand years, and if Christianity survives, JC may be much more Eastern or Latin looking. ;)

Associating Mediterraneans with olives sounds racist to me....
think whites:crackers...blacks:watermelons...washington:redskins...now we gotta deal with olive-headed meds??

CL says

Dan8267 says

Nicholas was probably white as most ancient Greeks were

Why do you assert that? I would think being Mediterranean they would be olive complected with dark features.

to whites, Middle Easterners are only "white" whenever convenient. in most cases they are just another inferior race.