patrick.net

And the Rich can have it....after 30 years, we are leaving and cannot wait....

Many parts of the City smell bad. Not sure why that is. I would only go into town when I had a business appointment. Don't get me started on Bart, :-/

It is also so Overated! We have the money to enjoy ourselves, but the restaurants have become awful and overpriced. The attitude among the city is very arrogant and not friendly like it used to be. We watched it change over the years. It used to be this 'small town' inside a big city, with all the advantages yet very welcoming and very special; little Mom and Pop restaurants and stores that made it unique. One of our favorite stores in a very exclusive shopping district after over 30 years, had its rent doubled and will be taken over by another chain store...if this is what money can buy...you are better off being poor...

With each wave of money that washes over the Bay Area, the quality of life declines. Working people, artists, craftsmen, small businesses that don't make a huge profit margin, families are driven out to the suburbs or beyond.

retire59 says

after 30 years, we are leaving and cannot wait....

Where are you going?
This is my current dilemma. This same Affluenza has infected most of my favorite places, and the places not affected have few services.

At least in the old days, the poor side of the economic scale just fancied them selves a Bohemian, and enjoyed their shared brownstone in a Historic neighborhood.

We lost New Orleans the home and birth place of Jazz, without as much as a whimper from the Historical society. When the rebuilding was being provisioned, the historical needs of the city was trashed aside, while the developers blueprints filled the Judges bench.
Outlining the new developed gated communities where the poorest and most colorful characters, that were the heart of the City were shuffled off to out lying towns hundreds of miles away while their multi generational homes were razzed to make way for the new vision.

They should just round up all of the resistance, and place them in Candlestick Park, process them and bus them off to Acron Ohio.

It worked for N'awlins.

I'm gone

Call it Crazy says

smaulgld says

I'm gone

Gone where??

From SF

We fortunately can retire and moved to the mountains. We found a small town near Yosemite that we visited often and bought a nice home for a great price.....more community oriented.

But there are other places outside the Bay Area, but finding work is always difficult; that is why we had to stay.

The stinking rich and the stinking homeless. Guess they deserve each other.

umm maybe the shitty parts of the city like the tenderloin and bayview smell like shit and urine

but the richmond, seacliff, don't smell at all. in fact i would say they are some of the cleanest and most pleasant places in the entire bay area

Iwag says

umm maybe the shitty parts of the city like the tenderloin and bayview smell like shit and urine

but the richmond, seacliff, don't smell at all. in fact i would say they are some of the cleanest and most pleasant places in the entire bay area

Clement street in the Richmond is clean?

I was told that SF was just like Boston but the times I'd visited, it reminded me more of the bad neighborhoods in Boston but all over the place than just the blighted neighborhoods.

A better comparison would be SF to Philly, as much of Philly, aside from Rittenhouse Sq and Society Hill, are trash heaps.

Rin says

I was told that SF was just like Boston but the times I'd visited, it reminded me more of the bad neighborhoods in Boston but all over the place than just the blighted neighborhoods.

A better comparison would be SF to Philly, as much of Philly, aside from Rittenhouse Sq and Society Hill, are trash heaps.

well noted.. might be far more true...

Overall, if San Francisco is so Popular, a magnet for the rich and wealth...

it sure hasnt attracted many of the Rich from SoCal.. Santa Barabara, LA, San Diego..

Fact is when was the last time you saw a bunch of Hollywood Actors/Moguls live around
San Francisco in any prior decade.... Frankly unheard of .....

Its always been NYC and LA... no one ever talked about San Francisco as being a Mecca for the Rich and Famous !

When I saw the thread title, I was expecting this thread to be about all the gays in SF.

Obligatory (Repost from: /?p=1232157&c=1024221#comment-1024221)

thomaswong.1986 says

if San Francisco is so Popular

Ok, now that the SF = western seaboard Boston (a.k.a. Athens of America/University town/The Hub of the Universe/Sports City) has been deconstructed, can I ask the million dollar question.

Aside from those, who'd grown up in the Bay Area (and thus, know of no other place call home), I wonder why others are attracted to SF? I suspect a lot of it has to do with a mild winter, the faux notion of a Boston but without the snow storms.

My experiences in the S.V. region give me a type of dystopic view of the region. In essence, Silicon Valley is a suburban sprawl, very similar to South Jersey, that area between Philly & New Brunswick, an endless sea of shopping malls and office parks alongside highways. And just like South Jersey-ites, who look to escape to Manhattan for a weekend of culture, like seeing a Broadway show or visiting the Met, S.V.ers look to SF, as that escape from the grind of work on weekends. The difference is that SF is more like Philly, than either Boston or NYC, and thus is actually a 2nd rate final weekend destination, esp given the price one has to pay, to live & work in Silicon Valley.

With the above in mind, do we even need a Silicon Valley anymore? Can't any of those companies be located in Boulder CO, Nashville TN, Atlanta GA, Houston TX, etc, and in effect, perform similar tasks, since the actual customer base is not the Bay Area?

Rin says

My experiences in the S.V. region give me a type of dystopic view of the region. In essence, Silicon Valley is a suburban sprawl, very similar to South Jersey, that area between Philly & New Brunswick, an endless sea of shopping malls and office parks alongside highways. And just like South Jersey-ites, who look to escape to Manhattan for a weekend of culture, like seeing a Broadway show or visiting the Met, S.V.ers look to SF, as that escape from the grind of work on weekends. The difference is that SF is more like Philly, than either Boston or NYC, and thus is actually a 2nd rate final weekend destination, esp given the price one has to pay, to live & work in Silicon Valley.

I've lived here most of my adult life.

You are absolutely correct.

I always thought the dregs of NYC and the rich as well liked SF because it was like a slice of Manhattan, with Barbary Coast overtones, shipped by cloud to the West Coast in a more beautiful environment. Same gutters, same puking drunks, but on a lesser scale, same obvious, parading arrogant rich who need the contrast of the poor to make themselves feel special, with just enough culture not to Jones for the real Broadway, Met or museums. A little bit of NYC-Lite, but in Tuscany, surrounded by Napa and beautiful Pacific Coast.

The dregs like it because they can scream and panhandle year around without freezing to death (or just freezing to death for a week or two) and they can be more disorderly and disruptive in the barfalicious PC environment, stuffed with benefits, what's not to like?

Rin says

My experiences in the S.V. region give me a type of dystopic view of the region. In essence, Silicon Valley is a suburban sprawl, very similar to South Jersey, that area between Philly & New Brunswick, an endless sea of shopping malls and office parks alongside highways. And just like South Jersey-ites, who look to escape to Manhattan for a weekend of culture, like seeing a Broadway show or visiting the Met, S.V.ers look to SF, as that escape from the grind of work on weekends.

This is true, Either escape to SF for the weekend.. sports, music (incl. night clubs), etc etc... sure... but that quality of night/weekend scene today is not as great as before circa 1975-95....

I certainly wouldnt call, Santa Clara having much to offer, nor should it... yes, thats right.. work ethic is pretty high given what were doing back then... not the case today.

As for needing SV, its certainly has more workers outside the state vs locally due to high costs. In recent years, we have priced ourself out of jobs and careers.

Wow, I haven't inspired even one counterargument!

To be fair, Boston's not paradise city either, however, 80% of the violent crimes are isolated into three neighborhoods: Mattapan, Dorchester, & Roxbury. And then, many of the petty thefts and muggings are in neighborhoods, which abut the Big Bad Three. Thus, if you cruise around of the city, outside of the inner zone, it's a rather nice place with decent neighborhoods starting from the North End/Financial District, all the away down Back Bay through the Boston Univ buildings and into the Allston/Brighton areas. And across the river, into Cambridge MA with Harvard Sq and a number of other happening locales. And residential areas like east Jamaica Plain, Roslindale, West Roxbury are also all right, with the exception of an annual gangland showdown, outside of the hood. Yes, the occasional bad things do happen but that's kinda national these days.

In no way was SF like the above. Almost every place I'd gone to, outside of that northern arc between the Embarcadero & Golden Gate Park, was trashy with homeless, riff-raffs, & other unsavory (i.e. gangs) persons. At best, it was a Philadephia of the west coast, since Philly also had its Haight-Ashbury, Powelton Village, before the place had became a drug infested part of West Philly during the 80s/90s. though granted, the real nasty stuff in West Philly starts after 40th street. And like Philly, venturing from one safe hamlet to another, like going from Rittenhouse Sq to Penn's Landing, it's safer to take a taxi than to walk or take the subway.

Robert Sproul says

retire59 says

after 30 years, we are leaving and cannot wait....

Where are you going?

This is my current dilemma. This same Affluenza has infected most of my favorite places, and the places not affected have few services.

Agreed. There isn't a single place to go in the USA that offers the same things the bay area does. If you like being by the mountain and ocean - forget it.

I have thought long and hard about Portland. I love it when I visit there. People are more down to earth - very little of this techie/hipster arrogance there and still sort of affordable (though housing is being propped up everywhere by QE). Problem is I always visit in the two summer months. Weather rest of the year is that bone-chilling damp and cold. Not for me.

Rest of CA? Same as SF. Overpriced, taxed to death, materialistic airheads.

Trying to save and invest my money and perhaps retire to a developing country. In the mean time as single renter I just get taxed to death and my property-owning friends are back to bragging about their "investment savvy" as they were lucky enough that QE has created a 2nd bubble.

I left about 1.5 years ago to San Diego. Glad I did as well. Need to update my profile.

It should be a self driving bus. Lets see them jump in front of one of those.

bgamall4 says

Well, if I had to accept a city with rich and poor divided, at least many of the wealthy in SF actually make stuff. Most in NYC just lend out toxicity. I think Google should not provide a bus for those folks crowding in on SF, but at least Google has a product instead of a lending scam.

Google doesnt make anything.. they provide marketing information and sell adds.

Ask yourself how much RE and Mortgage ads do these portels sprew out ...

They are the NEW madison avenue of this centurey... as if thats good!

They sell everything about you...

Besides that, Google isnt in SF.. SV isnt part of SF, never was... what was the last time SF prime

ever created anything ? Levis and Shipping but that was long ago... Its all Tourists and Conventions

today... not much to speak of...

Rin says

Wow, I haven't inspired even one counterargument!

whats there to add.. its just not the Jewel it once was... a few spots here and there.

great to visit, but not all that big anymore to live there... no point !

thomaswong.1986 says

Its all Tourists and Conventions

today... not much to speak of...

That's actually one of the great wonders of this current century, high cost cities without true industries. I mean metro NYC, in essence, is supported by bonuses from the financial services industry.

In Boston, even local/state govt have provided subsidies, so that biotechs keep some of their campuses on the Rte 95 (or Rte 495) beltways. In contrast, many of the mutual funds have been axing jobs in Mass and have migrated to RI (for nearby support) or NC/TX for the bulk of the data center support. Much of the backbone, these days, are defense or health care IT contracts.

I can't see how the middle class is suppose to persist, without authentic work to perform.

Rin says

Wow, I haven't inspired even one counterargument!

You aren't likely to get one from the guys on Pat.net.

Seriously, what SF offers is that it is the center of the internet industry in the same way NYC is the center of the financial industry. People come here, because if you work in the internet, you have to be here.

And, relative to most places, the weather is good.

JFP says

People come here, because if you work in the internet, you have to be here.

The point is that it's the *internet*, not a full service industry for the Bay area. Since the services of the internet are used globally, it doesn't make much sense to have a huge build out in the SF-SV corridor, as it's an extremely expensive place in terms of hiring headcount.

And granted, one can say the same about NYC, however, the fact remains that the exchanges are there and thus, there is a notion of a physical Wall St, although it's really a catchall term for Bowling Green station & environs.

One of the reasons why my hedge fund firm [ New England based, not New York ] didn't hire a full time NYC/Boston based tax consultant was that we'd rather spend that fixed $400K/yr, as a base salary for a talented prop trader than on someone, who's role would be automated in a few short years.

Likewise, I'm sure that any number of internet service shops could setup an R&D branch office near former rust belt engineering colleges... Univ of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign IL, Rochester Institute in Rochester NY, or Rensselaer Polytechnic near Albany NY and they could probably pay these students or recent graduates, 1/3 of the silicon valley rate.

JFP says

People come here, because if you work in the internet, you have to be here.

maybe between 1995 to 2000, but the internet is a collection of servers HW and SW apps.. can be done elsewhere... thats already a mature business been around for 20+ years.

no long need to be here, as is the case with other F500 giants like ATT, MSFT, GE, TI or many others who no long have a central job hub.

Rin says

Likewise, I'm sure that any number of internet service shops could setup an R&D branch office near former rust belt engineering colleges... Univ of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign IL, Rochester Institute in Rochester NY, or Rensselaer Polytechnic near Albany NY and they could probably pay these students or recent graduates, 1/3 of the silicon valley rate.

all it takes to have Silicon Valley, in your region, is what SV had in the beginning, but no long can provide.... Cheap Land ! and that will provide for Cheap Skilled Labor ( incl Engineers). already many states will provide incentives to lure jobs and whole
companies to their region... California has become deaf to such external influences.

We are fucked...

Governor Cuomo Launches Start-Up NY Program at International ...
www.governor.ny.gov/.../10222013-governor-launches-start-up-ny-pro...‎
Oct 22, 2013 - “In a tax free environment, no one can match what New York has to offer. ... START-UP NY seeks to accelerate entrepreneurialism and job ... as the framework of the START-UP NY program to attract high-tech and other .... other local businesses outside the tax-free area would be ineligible to participate.