Comments 1 - 26 of 26 Search these comments
Tenpoundbass
2014 Apr 18, 10:12am
If you think about it, every government is an oilgrachy.
Think any of the pork barrel laws would have passed over the years or any of the meaningful legislation that was shat on or mishandled the way it was, over the last 50 years, if there was a public peanut gallery in Congress.
Say a thousand random civilian spectators with balcony seating everyday the Senate and Congress meets.
These guys are behind closed doors making deals and decisions, not even reading legislation, and just taking it for word, things that affect everyone's life. Many cases their lives are getting enriched by their decisions, while everyone else gets it up the can.
We're no different than any country all Government is ran by closed door good ole boy club. We're just lucky they aren't violent against their own citizens with a militarized force...
...Like I said, all Governments are the same. We used to be different, but we voted for Change.
Strategist
2014 Apr 18, 10:47am
Dan, please name a real democracy anywhere in the world.
That's very cynical.
Ok, name one that comes closest.
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 5:09am
Dan, please name a real democracy anywhere in the world.
Rome was the last real democracy before it deteriorated into a republic which then deteriorated into despotism.
Athens was the first democracy.
There is no technological reason why in the information age we cannot implement a true democracy.
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 5:12am
If you think about it, every government is an oilgrachy.
Empirically false: ancient Athens.
Even if your statement was actually true, it would not imply that every government must be an oligopoly. Just because no one invented the airplane before the Wright brothers doesn't mean it can't be done. Substitute television, transistors, space flight, computers, the Internet, or democracy for airplane and the statement remains true. It is foolish to limit ourselves to what the past was able to do.
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 5:13am
Like I said, all Governments are the same. We used to be different, but we voted for Change.
Obama is hardly the cause of the oligopoly. Reagan is the single person most responsible for it.
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 5:16am
Dan, please name a real democracy anywhere in the world.
That's very cynical.
Whether he's cynical or not, he was a point. It happens to be an incorrect point, but a point nonetheless. He was implying that since there are no real democracies in the world today, such a form of government is impossible. Like I responded to Captain, this simply isn't correct reasoning.
No one has ever cured cancer, but that does not mean no one ever will. I refused to be limited to past accomplishments. If living in the 20th and 21st centuries has taught us anything, it's that rapid social, technological, and scientific advancement is possible. Every day there is something new under the sun.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Apr 20, 5:25am
Reagan kept the magic behind the curtain.
I think I would probably like Obama better if he kept the details of the show business behind the curtains.
He tries to do a magic act he calls transparency, but still all of the facts manages to disappear.
It really gives you new fond appreciation for guys that kept all that behind the scenes. After I don't want to stick your head up a Bulls ass to get all of the details about the steak I'm eating?
Ronald didn't lie, because nobody knew about his shit, he just did it. America has enough stress and distractions with out his added bullshit. So Ollie North made his own little deals with Dictators in the South America to generate money to send to the Alqueda in Afghanistan to fight those mean ole Rooskies. When it came to light, Ronnie conveniently got Alzheimer's and couldn't remember.
That's fucking America with dignity and class. I couldn't think of a more fitting and noble way.
NOW!! Obama on the other hand, GAVE guns to Mexican drug lords, then ignored Bengazi threats, then can't remember details, caves in on Muslim radicals, and lost for meaningful retorts to Putin. It appears Obama's excuse will be he HAD Alzheimer's at the time.
Strategist
2014 Apr 20, 6:27am
Dan, please name a real democracy anywhere in the world.
Rome was the last real democracy before it deteriorated into a republic which then deteriorated into despotism.
Athens was the first democracy.
There is no technological reason why in the information age we cannot implement a true democracy.
Both Rome and Athens had slaves, how can they be democracies?
They would also have prisoners fight to their deaths in arenas for entertainment purposes.
In order to have democracy, you must have full equality for all.
Patrick
2014 Apr 20, 6:34am
Kind of shocking that these facts are getting some mainstream press.
Can we have Henry George un-erased from the history books now?
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 7:00am
Both Rome and Athens had slaves, how can they be democracies?
They would also have prisoners fight to their deaths in arenas for entertainment purposes.
In order to have democracy, you must have full equality for all.
Actually, no. Democracy is a system of government where all citizens vote on policy. Slaves were not citizens.
And no, democracy itself does not ensure full equality for all.
Yes, both Rome and Athens were largely evil, especially when it came to the slave trade, but they were less evil than say Egypt. And Rome became much more evil when it became a republic and even much more when it became a despotic regime.
So, although democracy is certainly not a magic bullet that fixes all problems, it is certainly a step in the right direction. Hell, I'd even settle for a quasi-democracy / quasi-republic in which the citizens voted for high-level, important stuff like whether or not to go to war and lower details were handled by representatives.
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 7:01am
Reagan kept the magic behind the curtain.
I think I would probably like Obama better if he kept the details of the show business behind the curtains.
That's what Clinton did, but republicans obsessed over the stains on the curtain.
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 7:09am
Obama on the other hand, GAVE guns to Mexican drug lords, then ignored Bengazi threats, then can't remember details, caves in on Muslim radicals, and lost for meaningful retorts to Putin.
Obama is responsible for some of the worst crimes against humanity in modern times including slaughtering civilians of all ages down to newborns in drone attacks. There is no reason to make up bullshit to make Obama look bad. Real history does that plenty well itself.
Obama gave guns to Mexican drug lords? He personally handed them over? That's bullshit. The evil and incompetent ATF did that. The program was just another failure in the war on drugs started by Nancy Reagan.
Bengazi is a made up scandal that had nothing to do with Obama or Hilary. Keep it up and we'll bring up Bridgazi again and use it to smear Chris Christy. It's the same bullshit. At least Bridgazi was intentional and criminal.
caves in on Muslim radicals? Because the problem with Obama's mass slaughter of men, women, and children in the Arab world is that he's being too soft on Muslim radicals. If a person likes Al Qaeda on Facebook, Obama sends out two drones: one to kill the reporter and another to kill the report's young son and his juvenile friends who are eating dinner with him. Yeah, the problem is that Obama's a pussy.
As for Putin, had the United States not engaged in a half dozen unjustified wars in the Middle East, we would have more political capital to take on Putin. Because of Bush, we don't.
New Renter
2014 Apr 20, 7:31am
If a person likes Al Qaeda on Facebook, Obama sends out two drones: one to kill the reporter and another to kill the report's young son and his juvenile friends who are eating dinner with him.
Are you talking about this case?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 7:38am
Yeah, that was the 16-year-old killed along with his friends. Still disgusts me to think about it. And that no one was prosecuted for it.
New Renter
2014 Apr 20, 7:49am
Yeah, that was the 16-year-old killed along with his friends. Still disgusts me to think about it. And that no one was prosecuted for it.
Dad was not such a nice guy:
According to the article the son was killed by a missile intended for someone else.
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 8:57am
Dad was not such a nice guy:
Without an open, fair trial, we will never know if the government's statements about Anwar al-Awlaki were even remotely true. How many completely innocent people have been falsely imprisoned and tortured without trial or even so much as charges. The government now has a vested interest in making its murder victim look like a criminal. As such, I have no reason to believe any claims of the government. A trial is necessary to demonstrate guilt and the accused must have a fair chance to defend himself against the accusations. Without that, this is no more than a political assassination.
As the article says,
The government repeatedly made accusations of terrorism against Anwar — who was also an American citizen — but never charged him with a crime. No court ever reviewed the government’s claims nor was any evidence of criminal wrongdoing ever presented to a court. He did not deserve to be deprived of his constitutional rights as an American citizen and killed.
According to the article the son was killed by a missile intended for someone else.
A mere two weeks after his father was killed? That's a hell of a coincidence. I'm more likely to believe the government is lying about this as well.
New Renter
2014 Apr 20, 11:09am
ithout an open, fair trial, we will never know if the government's statements about Anwar al-Awlaki were even remotely true.
This might be useful in that regard:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/23/world/meast/anwar-al-awlaki-fast-facts/
Was arrested in San Diego in 1996 and 1997 for soliciting prostitutes.
Well its comforting to know hardcore religious zealots from all faiths have something in common.
Dan8267
2014 Apr 20, 12:15pm
Was arrested in San Diego in 1996 and 1997 for soliciting prostitutes.
Yeah, the only thing we're sure he's guilty of is something that should not be a crime. Everything else on that page is
- hearsay
- guilt by association
- accusations without trial or evidence
Maybe he was a bad guy, but he should have been arrested and tried, not assassinated. And his son should not have been killed either.
I still say innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in an open and just court of law. By that definition, Anwar was innocent and now will forever be. Any evidence presented postmortem is invalid as the dead cannot answer charges. Killing him before trying him makes him innocent for all eternity.
Rin
2014 Apr 20, 12:21pm
Was arrested in San Diego in 1996 and 1997 for soliciting prostitutes.
Yeah, the only thing we're sure he's guilty of is something that should not be a crime.
Don't San Diego residents go to Tijuana for that stuff?
Seriously, what's so hard about driving into the 'burbs?
MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Apr 29, 3:12am
Americans are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.
Having the executive determine not only that somebody is a suspect, but also designate them for termination without a trial, is contrary to the Constitution.
That makes the President the cop, the DA, the Jury, the Judge, and the Executioner.
The hallmark of an Oligarchy is that there is no checks and balances on decision makers to make sure they don't abuse their power.
"We don't need trials!" is the exclamation of every tyranny from Sulla to the King's Star Chamber to the Jacobins to the Reichskommisars to the Soviets.
Balance of Powers, anyone?
Ceffer
2014 Apr 29, 3:21am
Yes, a trial guarantees that all of your known assets and tax monies will be rapidly dissolved by lawyers, you will be held hostage in suspended animation for years and years, and nothing will be resolved anyway.
The trial process hasn't been a guarantor of our rights for a long time, just the right of lawyers to drain money, another pointless roundabout asset sump.
Without speedy, cost efficient process of law, there is no process of law. Oligarchy or not, it is broken on both ends.
America was never a democracy. It was founded as a republic and deteriorated into an oligarchy.
Princeton University reports that America is indeed an oligarchy controlled by a rich few in
this report by Princeton University Prof Martin Gilens and Northwestern University Prof Benjamin I Page.
Here is the key graphic that shows who influences policies.
The only adjustment I'd make to the study is I would report the correlation for "economic elites" for a range of values from 90% to 99.99%. Being in the top 90% does not make you wealthy or give you political power, but being in the top 99.9% does.
I suspect that if the above graph for economic elites was drawn with a dozen lines representing higher percentage cutoffs, the lines would become steeper, i.e. the correlation between wealth and likelihood of getting legislation passed in your interest would be greater.
Notice that the average citizen's preferences have almost no impact on policy.