patrick.net

Dublin has lots of soccer moms in yoga pants.

Concord.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Ceffer says

Dublin has lots of soccer moms in yoga pants.

Are they looking for conservative guys to give them a little good news and some of the SIEG! and HEIL! ?

The invasion forces have already fertilized their lawns.

They are just trying to see if they still have the ole camel toe eye magnet, so they can treat you like dirt for staring at them.

Ceffer says

Dublin has lots of soccer moms in yoga pants.

Nice! They used to seem old but I like them now that I am. But, the important question is are they unhappy in their marriages? :)

What about working? Any preferences on which city is a good place to relocate a business to? Or are they mostly (aside from SF and Oakland), boring white suburbia with your choice of Applebee's?

CL you can move to Oakland or Vallejo since you want diversity and no white people.

213Cesspool says

CL you can move to Oakland or Vallejo since you want diversity and no white people.

I've lived in Oakland for most of my life in the Bay Area-- It's got a lot of white folks there. But it has culture and flavor, whereas most of the lily white areas in this country are cultural deserts, unless you like TGIF.

For living, I would rank as follows:

1) Dublin - lots of wide open space, new everything - real estate, parks.

2) Fremont - slight edge over walnut creek, namely lake liz, mission peaks

3) Walnut Creek

4) Daly City - nearby ocean, calm suburb feel yet close to SF

5) San Rafael - close to st quentin, cancer rates high in marin

6) SF - too expensive, no parking

7) Oaktown - even safe areas are within arms length of "thugs" lol

Thanks for the details, DH. Nothing on Walnut Creek? Too bland?

I lived all over (North, East, South and SF)

San Francisco (as long as you don't need 2K sq ft or walk in closet.)
Walnut Creek
Dublin
Fremont
San Rafael
Daly City
Oakland

If you have a huge family and need the space, you have no choice but Walnut Creek/Dublin

Call it Crazy says

Man, you guys are racists.... I don't see ONE East Coast city listed..

Let's add a few ...

Newport, Rhode Island

Portland, Maine

Burlington, Vermont

Newburyport, Massachusetts

Saratoga Springs, New York

CL says

Nothing on Walnut Creek? Too bland?

WC is cool, they got a nice shopping area on main st, some wide open spaces to the east of 680 and convenient intersection of hwys 680/24. Problem is that most job commutes via car from WC will encounter severe traffic back and forth.

CL says

Or are they mostly (aside from SF and Oakland), boring white suburbia with your choice of Applebee's?

Dublin is probably the closest to boring suburbia of the choices you mentioned. Fremont isn't necessarily particularly white, and neither is Daly City. Both have a lot of local businesses that aren't Applebee's.

You also mentioned work/relocating business in particular, which people seem to be ignoring. Daly City, Fremont, Dublin, and Walnut Creek are all BART-served (as are certain parts of SF and Oakland, obviously). When the Warm Springs extension is done, Fremont will have at least one more BART station, possibly two (they are considering one in Irvington).

Dublin definitely has some businesses already there (Sybase/SAP and I believe Carl Zeiss Meditec has a big facility there). Walnut Creek is probably more retail-based (a lot of mall-type stores) + hospital (John Muir + Kaiser). Daly City has Genesys and also Seton hospital as a big employer, and you have a lot of businesses in South San Francisco next door (most famously Genentech, but there are so many other tech businesses that you see on 101 now). Fremont gets the big spillover from Silicon Valley, just off the top of my head Western Digital and Seagate are there, Tesla is obviously there at NUMMI, Lam, and Boston Scientific has a big facility too.

The big exception here is San Rafael -- Marin County is so isolated and overpriced, and not a great place to work. There are almost as many people in Fremont as in all of Marin County. Marin is also lilywhite, if you're not looking for that. If you're a rich anti-development hippie, Marin County is for you, but it's off-putting to many. San Rafael is more diverse than most of the county, but I'd be skeptical of it as a place to relocate a business.

If you care about schools, Fremont can be really good or somewhat bad, Daly City is just average, Walnut Creek has at least three districts covering it, one of which is amazing, Dublin is pretty good, and I don't know about San Rafael in particular -- probably not as good as say Tam in Marin County.

You'll notice I didn't say much about SF and Oakland. Both are popular for the young urban-living population. I don't think of SF as particularly business-friendly -- the Board of Supervisors is pretty hostile to business interests and passes a lot of protectionist regulations that entrench existing shitty businesses and specifically keep out new businesses. SF has a massive payroll tax (which includes things like equity/options), unless you strike a deal to locate in a shitty area like Twitter did to avoid the tax. That said, there are obviously plenty of startups in SF, and the trend has been towards locating in SF more than Silicon Valley, as opposed to during the dotcom bubble.

Oakland is underrated, and gets a bad rap -- don't get me wrong, there are parts that are absolute cesspools, but it's a big city and has a lot of moving parts. I don't know how business-friendly it is -- the city government is a bit activist and not business-friendly and doesn't seem particularly effective, but that's also true of SF.

Oakland. Let's put it this way, if there are some political statements (court ruling, police incidents), the A's lose a key game, The RAIDER's does something awesome or not, chances are there is a violent raid somewhere in Oakland. Occupy wallstreet or occuppy Oakland.

The track from BART to lake Merritt heading to Pandora/Kaiser/Lake Merritt Condo is one of the most dangerous path, everyone got mugged at one time (armed not armed).

With respect to the nice homes, ask the residents who put up personal money to hire security to patrol their neighborhood because or all the in home armed robberies.

SFace says

The track from BART to lake Merritt heading to Pandora/Kaiser/Lake Merritt Condo is one of the most dangerous path, everyone got mugged at one time (armed not armed).

You mean on the train? If you're talking about walking from BART to Pandora, I'm pretty sure you'd get off at 19th Street instead of Lake Merritt station. Pretty sure you're exaggerating a bit, in any case.

SFace says

With respect to the nice homes, ask the residents who put up personal money to hire security to patrol their neighborhood because or all the in home armed robberies.

The nice thing about criminals is that they're often so lazy that they don't go up hills.

controllio said: The nice thing about criminals is that they're often so lazy that they don't go up hills.

The more ambitious ones do drive up the hills:
Police said Salamon had been in the Subaru when she encountered the men, whom she believed were involved in a burglary or robbery. In an effort to gather evidence, Salamon began to record them with her cell phone, said Oakland homicide Sgt. Mike Gantt.

"These suspects then entered their suspect vehicle and drove away," Gantt said. "Ms. Salamon ultimately followed them back over to Fern Street, where she was shot and killed and her phone taken."
From 2 arrested in killing of Oakland's 'pet nanny'.

And speaking of Oakland, Redfin shows no inventory -- zip, nada, zilch -- in Rockridge.

corntrollio says

The nice thing about criminals is that they're often so lazy that they don't go up hills.

I don't know anymore. Maybe they got cars? :) Lots of my friends in the Hills are still concerned, and hiring private security like you guys said. My old place mid-hills seems under assault.

But I agree...I love Oakland, but the crime seems so random nowadays.

corntrollio says

You also mentioned work/relocating business in particular, which people seem to be ignoring.

Yeah. Our business is in SF and we've grown a lot. Thinking about bifurcating or relocating, or whatever. I think talent may be drawn to SF or Oakland, rather than suburbia. But a lot of the points you all made are very helpful and illustrative.

Thank you all, and continue if you have more!

EBGuy says

"These suspects then entered their suspect vehicle and drove away," Gantt said. "Ms. Salamon ultimately followed them back over to Fern Street, where she was shot and killed and her phone taken."

From 2 arrested in killing of Oakland's 'pet nanny'.

Wait, what does this have to do with hills? The incident is described as the 2400 block of Fern. That's between High and Seminary in East Oakland, which is no-go:

https://patrick.net/?p=1237570&c=1050330#comment-1050330

Maybe you're just saying they steal cars to go rob people in the hills, but I don't think that happens in practice as much as people here are implying. I get that people are concerned that OPD is being rendered ineffective by the incompetent city government and may be responding in a particular way.

I always wondered how Berkeley managed to avoid the bad rap that Oakland gets. Maybe the university halo -- the town is in some ways a far worse shithole than Oakland is perceived to be by people who don't spend much time there because even the nice parts near campus have high crime.

All my friends and my family from the central valley were terrified about me purchasing a home in Oakland. But after they came to visit and spent time in the city they realized Oakland was a very lovely city and now they have a different view. Recently I knew of a family that moved from Fresno to the bay area and were told by fellow employees to steer clear Oakland due to the crime. After speaking with me they decided to rent in Oakland and are enjoying living in the city. They frequent the local parks, ethnic markets, hike the redwood trails, and of course visit San Fransisco. The husband loves his short commute into San Fransisco from Oakland. His view of Oakland has certainly changed and I am sure he is sharing his experience with his co-workers. Oakland has more to offer than most cities.
Love Oakland

Caroyln,

Moving from the central valley/Fresno to the bay area, albeit Oakland is a big part of it.

The crime statistics, robbery, violent, homicides speak for themselves. There's just not enough officer's (around 700 sworn) to reverse the trend. Safety is a very subtle thing and hard to measure but it makes no sense to compromise on safety.

Carolyn C says

All my friends and my family from the central valley were terrified about me purchasing a home in Oakland. But after they came to visit and spent time in the city they realized Oakland was a very lovely city and now they have a different view. Recently I knew of a family that moved from Fresno to the bay area and were told by fellow employees to steer clear Oakland due to the crime. After speaking with me they decided to rent in Oakland and are enjoying living in the city. They frequent the local parks, ethnic markets, hike the redwood trails, and of course visit San Fransisco. The husband loves his short commute into San Fransisco from Oakland. His view of Oakland has certainly changed and I am sure he is sharing his experience with his co-workers. Oakland has more to offer than most cities.

Love Oakland

I love Oakland too, but the crime is real and getting worse. I don't think there is a neighborhood that is immune anymore. The criminals are brazen, with takeover robberies and home invasions and such --I have to admit I'm glad I left it.

Maybe it will ebb and flow, and get better soon.

Agree re: Berkeley. I think neighboring cities benefit by being able to pretend that crime happens "there", but not "here". During the takeover spree in Oakland, there were bank robberies in SF but that didn't get the coverage of "bad old Oakland".

It was the same in Chicago, where reported crime was isolated to the south side or Gary, but I knew of major crime on the Gold Coast that went largely unreported.

http://www.examiner.com/article/oakland-crime-down-gentrification-up-mayor-quan-looks-good

I do think Oakland has all the makings of a great city. However the problem remains on how to alleviate Oakland's crime, but maintain it's cultural flare.

CL says

Which of the following cities are best to live/work in?

the "time" came and went... some people thing the grand golden
years will come back without having to put in the effort...

there was a reason why there was a boom decades ago...

but it escapes many today!

Too many ignorant people out there when it comes to Oakland. As someone that has spent about 10yrs there, I can confirm that Oakland has a spectrum of course... Rockridge, Oakland Hills, Montclair, Lake Merritt, Piedmont, all great places to live/work/play.

East Oakland? Ya stay out. This is the small part of Oakland that you see on the news.

Oh, and of the cities on that list, Walnut Creek would be my choice.

It's clean, safe, has a fun downtown, and probably has the smallest concentration of Bay Area "riff-raff" of any city on that list... How's that for PC?

We love San Rafael. 30 minutes by clean bus with Wifi to downtown S.F. where we work. Sunny, great stores, hiking trails, places to bike and a nice downtown with only few bums. You can drive a car around here and there is parking. Plus within a short drive great recreation trails around the watershed on the side of Mt. Tam.

There is plenty of diversity in Marin. Irish, Italians, Germans, English, all the people that look like our family and that we can share a common culture and values with. F* multiculturalism.