patrick.net

Straw Man says

What? I thought you liked brazenly rigged elections... err.. plebiscites....

Riiiiiight. You know nobody seriously disputes the fact that the majority of Crimeans wanted to return to Russia, right?

Even neocons make legalistic arguments about it.

Referendums are bad, except when they break up Yugoslavia, then they're good.

thunderlips11 says

Straw Man says

What? I thought you liked brazenly rigged elections... err.. plebiscites....

Riiiiiight. You know nobody seriously disputes the fact that the majority of Crimeans wanted to return to Russia, right?

Bullshit. Majority of Crimeans voted for independence from USSR in 1991 and never gave any significant %% to pro-Russian parties in any elections since. For example, Crimeans gave the guy who was pushing the idea of "returning to Russia" less than 5% (and in the last legitimate free and democratic election and got whopping 3 MPs in 100-strong local Parliament. Three percent, Karl! The pro-Ukrainian gathering in front of the Parliament building on a day before Crimean parliament was taken over by Russian spetsnaz was several times bigger than the pro-Russian one (and probably was the reason they decided to go for Plan B and take over the Parliament with machine guns instead of making it look like MPs voted in response to people's demands). It's well documented by observers that less than 30% of voters attended the hastily-prepared "plebiscite" and only about 50% of these actually voted in favor of annexation. Not to mention that any kind of political speech against the annexation was brutally suppressed. The only place where 15% of voters is considered a majority and voting under a gun is considered a legitimate referendum is Savushkina-55.

There is nothing wrong with referendums per se, but there is everything wrong with rigged referendums. Even infamous "anschluss" referendum in 1938 was cleaner than that Crimea shit.

Straw Man says

Majority of Crimeans voted for independence from USSR in 1991 and never gave any significant %% to pro-Russian parties in any elections since. For example, Crimeans gave the guy who was pushing the idea of "returning to Russia" less than 5%

By a slim majority of barely over 50% in the heady days of 1991. Before the vote, Crimea was promised it's own president as an autonomous republic within Ukraine with Russian as the Official Language. This was cancelled in 1994 unilaterally by Kiev without Crimean approval.

In the intervening decades, they voted repeatedly for autonomy which Kiev never did anything about. There is no historical claim to Crimea being in the Ukraine other than Crazy Krushchev's decree of 1954. The Oligarchs have looted Crimea enough. It's in worse shape than it was in 1991.

In the intervening time period, Russians have witnessed themselves being second class citizens in the Baltics (your grandmother could have been born there, and you still wouldn't be) and the first act of the Galician Government in Kiev was to attempt to ban Russian, Tartar, Romanian, and Yiddish. They did not want to be Russians in Latvia, but Russians in Russia.

Ukraine is full of Oligarchs's gangs battling each other in the streets with Light Machine Guns and RPGs for control of cigarette smuggling routes and infrastructure, but apparently there are no arms for many draftees.

You ask Crimeans, and they are very happy. Russians were welcomed with open arms.

There was also a foreign military force that invaded Kosovo that held an illegal referendum for which they had no mandate to institute, that passed overwhelmingly. There was a Constitution written by Iraq by hand-picked Bank Employee Exiles by the US Government.

There was no way any Russian with a brain would have let NATO have an unsinkable aircraft carrier flush up against the Sea of Azov. Putin did what was to be expected; the Western "Leadership" was "Surprised" by the response.

Back to Hillary

Hillary sent emails with confidential information using unsecure, private server.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/investigation-sought-into-hillary-clintons-emails-1437714369

Kim Dotcom: Assange has more info on Killery Klinton. And we'll be working together.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/p6F8oq7apqY

Found the Hillary Campaign Song:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/xjzs_x5bPiA

Where we are so far:

* Hillary's attack on Trump on the women issue ended up with her running away and putting Bill, whom she just trotted out, back in the basement
* Her use of Chelsea as an attack dog on Bernie on healthcare, of all things, failed on two counts: Using Chelsea to Attack, period, dumb move, exposes Chelsea to criticism (esp her $600k job as a new, totally inexperienced broadcaster). Second, Contrasting Hillary's Secretive 1990s Obamneycare plan to Single Payer, esp. with strong liberals playing a role in the Primaries.
* Hillary was fine when she could hide, back before the Primaries really got underway, but now that she had to come out to campaign, people are seeing her and disliking her.
* Her "Laughing" and "Ignoring" Trump were seen as ineffective and even cowardly. Rather than a sign she was so far above Trump, and he such a loser, it made people think if she had the stuff to go toe-to-toe with him in a General Election.
* I think her tactics of roping off the Media and controlling every aspect of her appearance tightly, is actually turning the Media against her a little bit.

Other things that hurt Hillary:

* Terrorism
* Mentions of Libya, Russian successes in Syria.
* And, if a recession starts now or before the elections, she's toast if she's the frontrunner and Trump is the Republican nominee.

Bellingham Bill says

MMT

Medical Marijuana Tax?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory

In many systems, banks can create money but these horizontal transactions do not increase net financial assets as assets are offset by liabilities. In addition to deficit spending, valuation effects e.g. growth in stock price can increase net financial assets.

a) Sanders vs Clinton

Sanders

b) Clinton vs. Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Bush, etc

Clinton

This isn't so hard. Our system is designed to vend two choices at a time, you can pick another, but only those two will come out of the machine.

Poor Hillary, can't catch a break.

After spending the past few weeks reversing her previous policy of distancing herself from Obama and now embracing him, the stock market begins dropping and job numbers aren't looking great.

One terror attack or more economic bad news...

Has she started breaking it to the American Public yet that being a colony of China isn't nearly as bad as it sounds?

Hillary, Presidential Campaign 2016: Financial and Media groups and Foundations run by Hedge Funders and Currency Raiders. Meaning: Don't regulate markets, expand our IP rental income, regulate the internet to our benefit.

Hillary, Senate, 2003-2008: Financial Groups

thunderlips11 says

Voted for a 2006 bill to create a 700-mile fence along the Mexican border....

Did she call for Mexico to pay for it?

She’s not in the bankers’ back pockets. No, siree. Hillary Clinton may have received millions of dollars from Wall Street—in both personal income and campaign contributions—but she can ditch those well-heeled friends at a moment’s notice.

To prove it, she has postponed (but not canceled) two fundraisers with Big Finance, one with the huge investing firm BlackRock and the other with an affiliate of Bain Capital, Mitt Romney’s old outfit. This comes amid Clinton’s unconvincing answers when pressed on her apparent coziness with banks and financial firms. When CNN anchor Anderson Cooper asked Clinton recently why she accepted $675,000 from Goldman Sachs for giving a grand total of three speeches, she stammered and finally said, “That’s what they offered,” as if she would have taken 25 bucks and a free sandwich, if that’s all Goldman were able to afford.

Clinton is obviously flummoxed by her relationship with Wall Street, which she needs but can’t fully acknowledge. Her Democratic rival Bernie Sanders keeps hitting pay dirt by trashing the big banks and the outsized amount of wealth they control, which resonates well with a dyspeptic electorate. “The business model of Wall Street is fraud,” he declared during the latest Democratic debate. The whole subject puts Clinton on the defensive, since she’s taken millions in Wall Street donations in her career as Wall Street’s home-state senator and now presidential candidate.

What's hilarious is the only thing Hillary has on Bernie is his disinterest in pursuing strong gun control, but that's only one issue out of dozens where Hillary is firmly center-right if not full unleaded Bankster.

Hillary's major Banking and Finance problem:

https://audioboom.com/boos/4152235-surging-sanders-closes-on-collapsing-clinton-2-5-16-liz-peek-fiscal-times-jim-mctague-barron-s?t=0

text version would be nice. I read faster than they talk.

SoftShell says

text version would be nice. I read faster than they talk.

Don't think the JB Show offers transcripts.

Remembering the 90s: How Bill and Hillary made America the incarceration capital of the world and "reformed" welfare while deindustrializing the country
http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

Hillary on Welfare in the 90s

Clinton began a column in June 1998 with an anecdote about a mother on welfare whose daughter once came home and said, “Mommy, I’m tired of seeing you sitting around the house doing nothing.”

In the 1990s and early 2000s, Hillary Clinton touted the success of Bill Clinton’s 1996 overhaul of the country’s welfare system, framed as the transition from “dependency to dignity” — a subject she hasn’t spoken much about this year during her campaign.

Bill Clinton’s overhaul of the welfare system, which was passed in conjunction with a Republican-controlled Congress, replaced a major federal welfare program with block grants to states, required adults to find a job within two years of receiving aid, placed a five-year limit on aid, blocked future legal immigrants from welfare assistance, and cut $24 billion in food stamps. It was denounced by many Democrats, including Peter Edelman, who resigned from his post at the Department of Health and Human Services, arguing that the law would do “serious injury to American children.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/hillary-clinton-used-to-talk-about-how-the-people-on-welfare#.xi8YKalMz

Clinton Dogwhistling

Three years after the end of the Cold War, the 1992 presidential campaign focused primarily on the economy. But “Clinton did not depend on an economic message alone; rather, he decided to engage in his own racial pandering,” writes Haney López. Clinton campaigned as a ‘New Democrat’: “one resistant to black concerns, tough on crime and hostile to welfare.” Clinton distanced himself from African-American voters and politicians, publicly sparring with Rev. Jesse Jackson. “This ad shows the centrality of dog whistling to the Clinton campaign, putting front and center his promise to end welfare so that it’s no longer ‘a way of life,’ and also his commitment to cracking down on ‘criminals,’” Haney López told BillMoyers.com.

The Subtle Dogwhistling of Hillary's 2008 Campaign

About the same time, a picture of Obama in traditional Somali garb (from an official trip) then appeared on the Drudge Report, and Matt Drudge claimed he got it from the Clinton campaign. After stonewalling on the origin question, the campaign later claimed it had nothing to do with it. A Clinton flack then went on MSNBC and argued that Obama should not be ashamed to appear in "his native clothing, in the clothing of his country."

"It's not a smear, we just wanted the world to be proud of Obama's (FUCKING BLACK GUY!!! VOTE FOR WHITE HILLARY!!) Heritage"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclinton

www.youtube.com/embed/cFD8Ju-lLo0

Cornell West slams Clinton as "Milli Vanilli" of US Politics.

www.youtube.com/embed/qIHc84VYALQ

Clinton's position changed on NAFTA around the time she started running for President in 2008.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/feb/25/barack-obama/clinton-has-changed-on-nafta/

Then, as Sec of State, she went RIGHT BACK to pushing for sweeping one-sided Trade Deals. Totally untrustworthy on this issue.

"I've been the victim of Wall Street Attack Ads"
In fact, 1/3 of her PAC funding is from Wall Street, most of the money used to attack Trump.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/03/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-claims-meet-press-wall-street-atta/

Clinton: Bernie wants to rig the convention with Superdelegates.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-superdelegates-221828

Hillary's Low Information Voters probably don't know she had the majority of Superdelegates long before Iowa began.

www.youtube.com/embed/SuFScoO4tb0

BUMP.

Note the date on which this Thread began.

Labor is going to flub an election they should win hands down because of Neoliberalism and the Multicult. Just like the USA, England is being flooded with un and semi- skilled immigrants they don't need, to drive up rents and lower wages even though unemployment and underemployment is high.

-------------

Labor is hoping for a miracle in Philly late July.

Hillary's GREEN CARD for ALL Foreign STEM Grads of US Schools:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2016/06/27/hillary-clintons-initiative-on-technology-innovation/

Mitt Romney endorsed the same in 2012.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3089314/it-careers/clinton-wants-to-staple-green-cards-on-stem-grads-diplomas.html

Clintonistas and Country Club Republicans in the House and Senate give it bipartisan support.

Trump is an outsider, and they sure don't like him.

Kaine praised TPP just days before VEEP pick.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/tim-kaine-trade-tpp-226054

Clinton Lifetime Ally/Stooge Governor McAullife tells Media Hillary will "Flip-Flop" on TPP after Election.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/hillary-clinton-trans-pacific-partnership-terry-mcauliffe/
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

Link Updated: Hillary's Anti-Atheist Bigotry - now limited just to her remarks on the Supremes removing "Under God" from the Pledge.
http://atheism.about.com/od/hillaryclintonreligion/a/ClintonBigotry.htm

Wasserman-Schultz, handpicked Clinton DNC Chair, and her operatives discuss smearing Bernie for "Atheism"
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/25/atheists-call-dnc-official-resign-email-bigotry/

More Anti-Atheist Positions from Hillary:
http://atheism.about.com/od/hillaryclintonreligion/tp/HillaryClintonReligionSecular.htm

Bumpity Bump Bump. Start from the beginning. I started this thread in Mid 2014, FYI.

With IHLlary, it's like electing two Presidents in one! Her and Dworkin Golem! I guess you have to subtract a half for Bill, to make that 1.5 Presidents in one.

Does Rosie make it a one quarter President add-back?

Heard a rumor that there are some on patnet that might vote for one of the two political 1% mouthpieces.

Let them DIE DUMB!

Whoever becomes President will be bought and paid for by the wealthy elite. There will be change, but it will be more of the downward slide of fewer citizen rights, more people in jail, more wasteful government spending, and more imbalance between workers and elite.