patrick.net

what about the millions who never studied STEM but are now working in STEM?

STEM jobs may not be as shiny as many had perceived due to outsourcing but this article screams extreme exaggerations. it clearly is written by a bullshitter and may be an incompetent one as well.

"least 90 percent of my college education (and that of so many others) boiled down to pure terminology, or analysis of terminology."

this right there tells you this guy is full of crap. maybe he actually went to the University of Phoenix or some other mail order University? no freaking way the professors spend 90% of the time on terminology. they teach you a lot of concepts but those requires more than just memorizing words. programming courses, data structure, advanced data structure, networking, security, database, software engineering, operating systems, assembly language, distributed systems, algorithms, advanced algorithms, system programming, embedded systems, not mentioning required math courses. i worked my ass off in those classes, also in a public school like the one he claims to have gone. i wish it was simple as "90% terminology."

"by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I’d learned had been obsolete for years."

you think that after spending 4 years in a university a comp-sci grad would be a bit wiser than this. how would any university be able to keep up with the real world? a college education is meant to teach him the basics and to evaluate his level of commitment and potentials. nothing else.

relying on a school or classes to teach you the languages required for a development job, especially one for new grads, is one clear indication that you are not fit for this kind of work. maybe he can become a full time bullshit writer. this way he can unlock his full "potentials."

his linkedin says MIS, that's not Computer Science as he claimed in the article.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/casey-ark/23/194/668

Mark D says

his linkedin says MIS, that's not Computer Science as he claimed in the article.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/casey-ark/23/194/668

Good catch. Management (of) Information System is a CS-lite degree, at best.

justme says

Mark D says

his linkedin says MIS, that's not Computer Science as he claimed in the article.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/casey-ark/23/194/668

Good catch. Management (of) Information System is a CS-lite degree, at best.

Also, he's listing himself as 'CEO' of some unknown web company. That's immediate shredder resume for an entry level job in corporate America.

For a newcomer, even if one's self-employed, one needs to label himself as programmer analyst, research analyst, systems engineer, etc.

curious2 says

Ted Kaczynski, for one.

Another bad example ... Kaczynski was living off the grid. That's how he avoided capture for years.

In my sponsorship society, the govt will know that he's around, as he'll be cashing checks once in a while. Those who'll be on this program are obviously not going to be running terrorist rackets, since detection would be rather easy.

For the most part, many postdocs in academia will be the first to join up. And then, it'll be the gypsy scholars/adjunct profs, who can't find full time professorships. Many of these ppl will transition out of science altogether, within a few years. Those who'll stick around will have some *inner* incentive, yes, read that one, inner incentive, not a carrot/stick, to do their own thing.

Mark D says

STEM jobs may not be as shiny as many had perceived due to outsourcing but this article screams extreme exaggerations. it clearly is written by a bullshitter and may be an incompetent one as well.

Mark D says

what about the millions who never studied STEM but are now working in STEM?

What was that again?

If you are talking about C level execs and paper pushers working at STEM companies they don't count unless by some act of God they actually spend a significant portion of their days at the bench. They don't. I've worked with a few of these people in my day and I can tell you their eyes glaze over at the first hint of actual technology.... That is until their brains reset into buzzword capture mode.

New Renter says

If you are talking about C level execs and paper pushers working at STEM companies they don't count unless by some act of God they actually spend a significant portion of their days at the bench.

These are MBA-ologists. And actually, many have come from management consulting backgrounds so the art of bullshit-ing is their raison d'être.

For me, it took years to develop those skills.

New Renter says

If you are talking about C level execs and paper pushers working at STEM companies they don't count unless by some act of God they actually spend a significant portion of their days at the bench. They don't. I've worked with a few of these people in my day and I can tell you their eyes glaze over at the first hint of actual technology.... That is until their brains reset into buzzword capture mode.

That was disingenuous reply, if you want to say that they are rare, then do so. But to marginalize people who are self starters, learners and self studied, as interlopers is over selling your self and our crappy education system.

CaptainShuddup says

New Renter says

If you are talking about C level execs and paper pushers working at STEM companies they don't count unless by some act of God they actually spend a significant portion of their days at the bench. They don't. I've worked with a few of these people in my day and I can tell you their eyes glaze over at the first hint of actual technology.... That is until their brains reset into buzzword capture mode.

That was disingenuous reply, if you want to say that they are rare, then do so. But to marginalize people who are self starters, learners and self studied, as interlopers is over selling your self and our crappy education system.

Disingenuous? Hardly. Most companies are staffed with people who never enter the lab yet work at a STEM company. I was merely pointing out these people do not count as having STEM careers. Pushing paper does not make you a scientist, technician, engineer or mathematician. Their careers are STEM dependent, but not STEM.

Now if you want to weigh into the discussion with your own experience as a carpet layer who through sheer old fashioned gumption and power of will began a successful career as a highly sought after programmer (or meth cook) please do.

New Renter says

Pushing paper does not make you a scientist

Hey, us BS artists don't push paper, we push the dream ...

"I can you get that!"

"It's all about our client's success"

"What we offer is what *the Street* had neglected"

New Renter says

Disingenuous? Hardly. Most companies are staffed with people who never enter the lab yet work at a STEM company. I was merely pointing out these people do not count as having STEM careers. Pushing paper does not make you a scientist, technician, engineer or mathematician. Their careers are STEM dependent, but not STEM.

Now if you want to weigh into the discussion with your own experience as a carpet layer who through sheer old fashioned gumption and power of will began a successful career as a highly sought after programmer (or meth cook) please do.

My brother is one of the leading Resin, gel coat and Putty "Composites" chemist in the country.

There's probably not a Cultured marble vanity, a glossy Yacht's finish, marine coating sold in the US, that my Brother probably didn't create the formula for.

He landed that job in 1986, straight out of Army after serving 4 years.
He started out as Lab help, among other warehouse duties for the Gelcoat manufacturer and worked his way up. That company has been bought about 5 different times. Now the company he works for is one of the only companies that manufactures what he makes. He's it, there's not many in the Country that does what he does, or knows what he knows about gel coats, putties and resins.
He learned everything on the job. He's flown all over the world to troubleshoot, and QA coatings manufactured by several manufacturer, that licenses his formulas.

Formulas he doesn't own, but he did create over the course of 30 years as his company changes at least 5 hands.

I watched Mission Blue the other night.

Do you really think that any one with a passion for collecting seaweed, couldn't accomplished the same thing that Sylvia Earle accomplished as a Scientist?
We only know about her today, because the Women's lib movement was big in the 60's. She hitched a ride on some ground breaking sea expeditions and was there early on in the evolution of submersibles. She could have actually been a Shipyard worker from the Bronx and been just as useful.
"oooh look a sponge!"

By her standards anyone who has ever walked the beach and took the time to appreciate the things that wash up on the surf, is a world renown scientist.

I mean I'm not trying to take anything from her or Science. But Schientists, that thinks it takes some bestowed credentials from a University to understand or appreciate Nature, is just pure horse shit.

CaptainShuddup says

I mean I'm not trying to take anything from her or Science. But Schientists, that thinks it takes some bestowed credentials from a University to understand or appreciate Nature, is just pure horse shit.

The knowledge sets of most university courses are in the public domain.

Thus, the so-called credential is just a way of certifying and grading how the person did with those subject areas.

In my hypothetical scenario of a sponsorship program, ppl who can take those exams, will be able to get a stipend to do their own thing. Since you yourself said that you were a self-studier, well, the principle would also apply to you.

Rin says

New Renter says

Pushing paper does not make you a scientist

Hey, us BS artists don't push paper, we push the dream ...

"I can you get that!"

"It's all about our client's success"

"What we offer is what *the Street* had neglected"

Rin says

Thus, the so-called credential is just a way of certifying and grading how the person did with those subject areas.

The Rubric is nothing more than jargon and horseshit to justify the high tuition costs and the lack of real world knowledge and experience.

*No Work was received by the instructor

*Student work demonstrates no understanding or progress towards achievement of this outcome.

*Student demonstrates little ability to use problem solving to increase academic and professional proficiency. Student work does not provide examples to explain statements.

*Student begins to demonstrate problem solving skills to increase academic and professional proficiency. Student work provides some examples that do not necessarily explain statements.

*Student work demonstrates how the use of problem solving skills increases academic and professional proficiency. Student work provides some examples to explain statements.

*Student work demonstrates how the use of problem solving skills increases academic and professional proficiency. Student work provides career-oriented examples to explain statements.

*Student work fully demonstrates how the use of problem solving skills increases academic and professional proficiency. Student work provides practical career-oriented examples to explain statements.

Rin says

In my hypothetical scenario of a sponsorship program, ppl who can take those exams, will be able to get a stipend to do their own thing. Since you yourself said that you were a self-studier, well, the principle would also apply to you.

We've always been on the same page in that regard.

It' obvious you don't understand the meaning of the word "terminology".

Mark D says

this right there tells you this guy is full of crap. maybe he actually went to the University of Phoenix or some other mail order University? no freaking way the professors spend 90% of the time on terminology. they teach you a lot of concepts but those requires more than just memorizing words. programming courses, data structure, advanced data structure, networking, security, database, software engineering, operating systems, assembly language, distributed systems, algorithms, advanced algorithms, system programming, embedded systems, not mentioning required math courses. i worked my ass off in those classes, also in a public school like the one he claims to have gone. i wish it was simple as "90% terminology."