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We can survive without Russian gas now, says Lithuania's president
2014 Oct 22, 2:18am 2,276 views 17 comments
by zzyzzx follow (9)
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MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Oct 22, 2:23am
We'll see. Still gotta get through this winter, and LNG is more expensive than piped gas.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 22, 3:02am
The Whole world could survive with 40% less of the Oil being pumped today.
The more Oil pumped then the more supply investors can manipulate and control the price of.
When it's an honest supply then only REAL players, (Producers, Shippers, Storage, and Refineries) get's to play and decide the prices. That is what has been happening this summer, which I called it early on. And I was assured that Oil and Gas would go through the roof. It didn't happen.
Remember, the world doesn't work on supply in demand anymore. Well it does but the more supply the more they'll control the distribution of and the more they'll charge the consumer for being one of hundreds of middle men in the goddamn way of that product and your consumption.
Strategist
2014 Oct 22, 3:11am
We'll see. Still gotta get through this winter, and LNG is more expensive than piped gas.
Don't want it. Thanks, but no thanks. The Russians are digging their own grave.
Europe is discovering that Russia just cannot be a reliable supplier of natural gas. If European countries do not submit to Russian politics, they find themselves threatened with a cut off in gas supplies. Sheer blackmail.
Alternative sources will emerge, with the US ready to help.
zzyzzx
2014 Oct 22, 3:36am
We'll see. Still gotta get through this winter, and LNG is more expensive than piped gas.
It's less expensive to buy natural gas, even from the Russians, when they know you can buy it elsewhere. That and if you live in places like Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine, you would rather your natural gas $$$ got to the US or somebody you actually like, instead of Russia.
MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Oct 22, 2:10pm
If it was so easy, how come Central and Eastern Europe has been buying piped Russian gas from before WW2, throughout the Cold War, right up to today?
There's only one production plant in all of Europe, in Hammerfest, Norway.
LNG isn't a brand - new idea or technology, it dates back to WW1.
I'd wait and see how this works out, first.
RWSGFY
2014 Oct 22, 2:30pm
how come Central and Eastern Europe has been buying piped Russian gas from before WW2
Because they didn't buy any "Russian gas from before WW2" : the first gas pipelines in USSR were built during and immediately after WWII (Dashava-Lviv in 1941 and Saratov-Moscow in 1946). But these were for domestic use only. The first export gas pipelines were built in late 70s-early 80s.
MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Oct 22, 2:53pm
Because they didn't buy any "Russian gas from before WW2" : the first gas pipelines in USSR were built during and immediately after WWII (Dashava-Lviv in 1941 and Saratov-Moscow in 1946). But these were for domestic use only. The first export gas pipelines were built in late 70s-early 80s.
My bad - make that "Oil". One of the reasons the Germans were so interested in synthetic coal to fuel (and buying some key patents from Standard Oil/Esso) was because their main source of energy before the war was the Soviet Union. Ploesti was barely enough in peacetime for Germany. They knew once Barbarossa began, no more Russian Oil.
In any case, the region has been dependent on Russian energy for a long time.
That one lone LNG facility in Norway ain't gonna cut it, and fracking won't either, especially if the price of a barrel of oil keeps dropping. That's because the Nat Gas from Fracking operations is a secondary product of the oil production itself.
According to Deutschewelle, 130 Billion Cubic Meters of Nat Gas is consumed by Europe each year, which Germany alone using 90bcm. While Norway and Holland provide a big chunk of it, the rest is Russian. Lithuania's cute little LNG transit facility is slated to open handling half a billion. Even if full output was 10 times that, it's a drop in the bucket. Maybe enough for Lithuania, but not for the EU generally.
http://www.dw.de/germanys-russian-energy-dilemma/a-17529685
From the link:
But the problem is that liquefied natural gas costs almost twice as much on the global market as when sourced from Russian suppliers. And there are long-term LNG export contracts, which means that short-term changes to supplies would be difficult. The European attempt to decrease its dependence on Russian gas imports supplied via the Nabucco pipeline, which was supposed to run through the Caspian Sea, recently failed for economic reasons. Overall, it will be a Herculean task - both logistically and financially - for Europe, and especially for Germany, to free itself from its current dependence on Russian natural gas imports.
A poorish little country like Lithuania paying twice the price for LNG instead of Piped Gas - 90% of it's energy consumption - and not suffering a hit to it's economy? Not likely.
Y
2014 Oct 22, 3:35pm
One well-aimed VA-111 shkval and they are back to square one kissing commie ass....
"We will have no dependence on Gazprom supplies. In the case of gas supply disruptions, our terminal can serve and fulfill about 90 percent of the three Baltic states' gas supply needs," Grybauskaite said.
Y
2014 Oct 22, 3:42pm
if we could sterilize 20% of the chinese ....wouldn't that be the same thing??
The Whole world could survive with 40% less of the Oil being pumped today.
justme
2014 Oct 22, 6:11pm
LNG is more expensive than piped gas.
Just wanted to elaborate a little bit of why this is the case for those who might not know (myself included). LNG requires multiple stages of cooling (for volume reduction 600x), which is energy-intensive. So piped gas with lower pressure is both greener and cheaper than LNG.
LNG energy losses are estimated at 10-12.5% for cooling plus 0.15-0.20% for each 480 miles (nautical) of travel on a supertanker. Not terrible losses, but not great either. Click on thumbnail/image for reference.
More at
Fuck the EU! It's Russia's gas. They can set the price.
Ain't Free Enterprise wonderful.
How's that American,EU FUBAR Ukrainian collapse working out for EU citizens?
MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Oct 23, 2:39am
How's that American,EU FUBAR Ukrainian collapse working out for EU citizens?
Not too well. Behind the scenes, Merkel is taking a lot of flak.
Merkel has already pissed off the rest of Europe with her insistence on a strong Euro and being immovable on bad debt.
The only people that got out of it was Finland, they agreed to open new diary product facilities in Russia itself. Most of Poland's apples rotted in the orchard.
Behind the scenes much is taking place. Sikorski the Russophobe (married to Anne Applebaum, an American Neocon) was fired from him position in the Foreign Ministry of Poland, and he just got more flak for saying that Russia offered to partition Ukraine with Poland. Russia denies, and Sikorski was forced to admit it was hearsay, making Poland look bad. He can forget about a replacement position in the government anytime soon.
Meanwhile, Putin partied with Italian politicians and dissed Merkel by showing up hours late to their meeting, and then telling the press "We're still too far apart" when Merkel was pressuring him to pressure the Donbas into not holding Elections.
In Kiev, neonazis and Svoboda clashed with police over giving the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, implicated in countless atrocities during WW2, Veteran's Benefits, and adding all 14th Galizen SS and Abwehr and Einsatzgruppen volunteers to the Veteran Benefit rolls, as well.
BTW, Russian Agra sector has boomed because of the ban. It had been cheaper just to buy the Euro posh cheese and fruit, but now there's an incentive for Russian business to invest in food production.
The Black Earth of Russia can replace Euro products much faster and easier than Europe can replace Russian Energy.
RWSGFY
2014 Oct 24, 1:26am
Because they didn't buy any "Russian gas from before WW2" : the first gas pipelines in USSR were built during and immediately after WWII (Dashava-Lviv in 1941 and Saratov-Moscow in 1946). But these were for domestic use only. The first export gas pipelines were built in late 70s-early 80s.
My bad - make that "Oil".
Yeah, time to change the subject. It won't help, though, because Soviet oil exports were insignificant until mid-60s.
RWSGFY
2014 Oct 24, 1:27am
How's that American,EU FUBAR Ukrainian collapse working out for EU citizens?
Not too well. Behind the scenes, Merkel is taking a lot of flak.
And we are taking a lot of RT bullshit here.
FortWayne
2014 Oct 24, 1:56am
I survive every day without Russian gas, if only I could do it without American gas that would be something.
MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Oct 24, 2:08am
Yeah, time to change the subject. It won't help, though, because Soviet oil exports were insignificant until mid-60s.
Yay, flat out admitted I was mistaken nat gas being used by Germany before the War - but still Russian energy is important to Europe - get accused of changing the subject!
MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Oct 24, 2:08am
And we are taking a lot of RT bullshit here.
Almost as much bullshit as the US Media...
"Russia moved it borders towards NATO!"
http://news.yahoo.com/survive-without-russian-gas-now-says-lithuanias-president-155950719--finance.html
OSLO (Reuters) - Lithuania will be able to survive without Russian gas after its liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal starts up soon, redrawing the energy map for the Baltic states, President Dalia Grybauskaite said on Tuesday.
The floating LNG import terminal at the port of Klaipeda is planned to open on Oct. 27, ending the supply monopoly of Russia's Gazprom and isolation from global gas markets. Commercial deliveries are due to start after the terminal's testing in the beginning of 2015.
Importing super-cooled gas by tankers will not only ensure Lithuania's energy security, but transform relations with its former Soviet master, Russia, Grybauskaite told Reuters in an interview.
"For us this would give a lot of leverage and freedom in decision making... Nobody will be able to blackmail or force us to pay the political price," she said from her office in Vilnius. "And this is the best result."
Lithuania will be able to meet all the gas needs of its 3 million citizens, and also supply LNG to Baltic neighbors Latvia and Estonia.
"We will have no dependence on Gazprom supplies. In the case of gas supply disruptions, our terminal can serve and fulfill about 90 percent of the three Baltic states' gas supply needs," Grybauskaite said.
The terminal will have a capacity to supply 4 billion cubic meters (bcm) per year compared to less than 5 bcm of total consumption of the three Baltic states. To supply them, Lithuania needs to upgrade its pipelines to Latvia, which is expected to be done by end-2015.
Initially, Lithuania plans to buy 0.54 bcm of gas per year, enough to cover about a quarter of the its gas needs, from Norway's Statoil .
Its long-term gas supply contract with Gazprom expires at the end of 2015.
"We will have an agreement with Gazprom only if they change the price formula, if it will be a spot price and if they participate equally with others in the gas market," Grybauskaite said.
Should Gazprom cut supplies, Lithuania will look to buy more LNG cargoes on the spot market, and had a month-long reserves at Latvia's Incukalns underground gas storage, Grybauskaite said.
"So really, we don't care anymore (about Russia gas supply cuts)... I'm not concerned about gas supplies for the upcoming winter, at least for Lithuania."
SECURITY CONCERNS
She also said she was not concerned about the terminal's security. Nearby Sweden mobilized ships, troops and helicopters in a search for "foreign underwater activity" at the weekend.
"Our people are training with Norwegian and NATO forces. We are taking that seriously and we will be prepared," she said.
Lithuania has been training its special forces to protect the terminal for the past year.
Lithuania meets about 60 percent of its electricity needs via imports, the highest import dependency ratio in the European Union, and relies on Russia.
That dependence will be cut when it starts a 650 MW subsea cable to Sweden by end-2015, Grybauskaite said.
The former European Union commissioner said she expected the EU to step up efforts to reduce energy dependence on Russia in the wake of Ukraine crisis.
"The dependence on such an unpredictable and unreliable partner in energy means that... Europe is risking too much, Europe is paying too much and Europe is not competitive because of that," Grybauskaite said.
"We found this solution in Lithuania. In three and half years we succeeded in having the LNG terminal, which allows us to be fully independent from Gazprom."
#LNG #lithuania