patrick.net

CaptainShuddup says

Your right if you going by shallow bench marks.
The truth is Russians have a pride in their nation that we've lost, and that accounts for more than how many iPhones I could buy in a year.

Nothing is more dangerous than financial poverty combined with nationalistic tendencies. That gives rise to dictatorial despotism whether right or left wing.

dublin hillz says

CaptainShuddup says

Envious of those lucky bastards

You have got to be kidding me. America is better off than Russia on every single meaningful lifestyle difference making metric such as life expectancy, income, purchase power, freedom of the press, environment, you name it.

I don't care if we are better or not than Russia. Russia ain't a benchmark to compare oneself to. We got problems and we should be working on them. And it would be doable if our government didn't spend all their time bouncing between screwing us or screwing some other nation.

FortWayne says

And it would be doable if our government didn't spend all their time bouncing
between screwing us or screwing some other nation.

Our government's main priority is getting elected and getting as many of their allies elected as possible which results in perpetual "overpromise, underdeliver" performance.

FortWayne says

I don't care if we are better or not than Russia. Russia ain't a benchmark to compare oneself to. We got problems and we should be working on them. And it would be doable if our government didn't spend all their time bouncing between screwing us or screwing some other nation.

Watching Russia bashing is simply amazing. It's breathtaking to see in a country of 300M people, how monochrome our own media is.

You'd think Russia is the one that had thousands of people - many of whom were turned in as "Terrorists" by locals looking for cash payment and/or to settle local scores about dowries or sheep theft - in secret prisons, force feeding them with olive oil lubed tubes so they shit themselves and making them sit in their own shit for hours in solitary confinement in a straight jacket, sic dogs on them, stacking them into naked human pyramids and soften them up with beatings, being water tortured by simulating drowning and the gag reflex sometimes a hundred times in a month, or worst of all, being sent via Black Sites to Muslim Dictatorships where they could be tortured even worse without violating US Law.

According to where our Media spends it's time and effort, you'd think the Russian Local Authorities placing a bunch of obnoxious Social Justice Warriors in jail for vandalism, verbal assault, and trespass of a Church and National Monument for a couple of months, without tazing or choking them during their arrest process, is a much worse assault of Freedom and Democracy.

Most of Europe has tough laws about causing disturbances in and around religious centers.

If Russian laws are anti-freedom for this, then almost all of Europe is guilty.

In Malta, people can and are fined and imprisoned for criticizing religion, and the government's relationship with religion, outside of any protest in a church, just on the internet or in the paper. There was a guy on the JREF forums last year looking for donations to fight criminal charges for criticizing the Maltese relationship with the Church.

And Pussy Riot physically entered the building, sang a song full of profanity (Shit, Cock, Fucker), cursed the Patriarch of Moscow (the Pope of Russian Orthodoxy, basically), knocked shit over, pushed away the clerics that tried to remove them and refused to leave when security guards showed up. And yet, the local Militia (Police) didn't see a need to taze and beat them during the arrest process.

Anybody think Malta is a neo-Communist Authoritarian Police State?

thunderlips11 says

Watching Russia bashing is simply amazing. It's breathtaking to see in a country of 300M people, how monochrome our own media is.

I just don't understand the priorities. It's just stupid to complain about another country when we have so many problems to deal with at home.

I think our media will always complain about Russia and China, they are a competitor and human nature hates competition. But at a time like this, their Russia/China hatred makes them look like some Orwellian type of government that just creates wars instead of solving problems.

thunderlips11 says

Watching Russia bashing is simply amazing. It's breathtaking to see in a country of 300M people, how monochrome our own media is.

It's fun too. We always need a villain to pee on, and peeing on those radical Muslims gets monotonous at times. Putin makes a good fire hydrant in Dog City.
Castro and Chavez were fun too, but Castro is dying and Chavez is dead. Kim Jong un is a lot of fun too.

OMG, Vladimir Putin is a dictator!

Seriously, didn't everyone know this for let's say ... the past decade and a half?!

Also, he was a Colonel in the former KGB. OMG, we never knew that?!

And then, there's a plutocracy of oligarchs and Russian Mafia types, which have been laundering money globally for the past 20 years. OMG, we never knew that?!

Ppl, this is retarded. What the Soviet Union was, after the breakup, was not some Russian speaking version of England but a nation closer to General Suharto's Indonesia, mixed in with the oil sheiks of the middle eastern OPEC states but all quietly reporting to Suharto, which in this case is Putin.

Rin says

OMG, Vladimir Putin is a dictator!

Seriously, didn't everyone know this for let's say ... the past decade and a half?!

For the last 10 years we knew.

Rin says

Also, he was a Colonel in the former KGB. OMG, we never knew that?!

That we knew. His supporters kinda missed that.

Rin says

And then, there's a plutocracy of oligarchs and Russian Mafia types, which have been laundering money globally for the past 20 years. OMG, we never knew that?!

Some of us always knew that.

Rin says

Ppl, this is retarded. What the Soviet Union was, after the breakup, was not some Russian speaking version of England but a nation closer to General Suharto's Indonesia, mixed in with the oil sheiks of the middle eastern OPEC states but all quietly reporting to Suharto, which in this case is Putin.

Yup. Some people still don't get it. Oh, well.

Strategist says

Rin says

Ppl, this is retarded. What the Soviet Union was, after the breakup, was not some Russian speaking version of England but a nation closer to General Suharto's Indonesia, mixed in with the oil sheiks of the middle eastern OPEC states but all quietly reporting to Suharto, which in this case is Putin.

Yup. Some people still don't get it. Oh, well.

Yes, the newsworthiness of the situation is really throwing me for a major spasm of sarcasm.

Rin says

Yes, the newsworthiness of the situation is really throwing me for a major spasm of sarcasm.

Gives people something to talk about besides Benghazi In a year they will be talking about something else.

tr6 says

Rin says

Yes, the newsworthiness of the situation is really throwing me for a major spasm of sarcasm.

Gives people something to talk about besides Benghazi In a year they will be talking about something else.

Hopefully something good for a change. But you know how screwed up the world is.

tr6 says

Rin says

Yes, the newsworthiness of the situation is really throwing me for a major spasm of sarcasm.

Gives people something to talk about besides Benghazi In a year they will be talking about something else.

The fact that Colonel Putin, the former Red Army members, the former KGB operatives, and Mafia types are being posted as newsworthy *breaking events* is such a joke, that it isn't even believable. I mean it's like saying that smart phones have *just become popular* circa 2015, when it's been going on for a decade now, starting with the Blackberry.

Rin says

Also, he was a Colonel in the former KGB. OMG, we never knew that?!

Bush the First was the Director of the CIA and therefore also a dictator when President.

We all know the CIA never installed or supported dictators!

FDR was elected FOUR TIMES, President for 12 years and it would have been 16 if he hadn't passed on. Must have been a dictator. Real Democracies (tm) don't elect popular presidents repeatedly, especially when they guide the country through rough times and improve people's lives.

Thatcher and Blair were Prime Ministers for (more than) a decade. Other British PMs have served much longer. Merkel is ending her 10th year as Chancellor of Germany. Dictators?

Putin is only in his third term as President. Medeved was President in 2008-2012.

He then went to work for various banks until becoming Vice President under Reagan. On 9/11, he was meeting with Saudi Investors as a Carlyle Group executive. Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia, the most powerful man in the Kingdom, is known as "Bandar Bush" for his close ties.

Because Putin is opposed to the US, he must be a dictator, just like Chavez.

I mean, Putin NEVER lets people march in the streets. Every attempt at a Moscow protest ends in tear gas, beatings, and mass imprisonment, just like in Occupy Wall Street or Fergusson or Denver 2008 or Seattle 1999 Soviet Russia.

The country with the world's highest incarceration rate has little business criticizing other countries for being Police States. The US rate is twice Russia.

thunderlips11 says

Rin says

Also, he was a Colonel in the former KGB. OMG, we never knew that?!

Bush the First was the Director of the CIA and therefore also a dictator when President.

We all know the CIA never installed or supported dictators!

He then went to work for various banks until becoming Vice President under Reagan. On 9/11, he was meeting with Saudi Investors as a Carlyle Group executive.

Yes and no. In the west, it's intelligence, military, or financial douchebags who weasel their ways to the top govt positions like President, etc.

And thus, the US President is at best, a Commander-in-Chief but mainly, an advisor for douchebags living large within the system.

In Putin's case, it's a more direct correlation. You're either on his team or you're out. Thus, the former exec of Yukos is in jail and his assets are under the govt's protection. This is why Soros is able to run around, poking fun of whomever he doesn't like within the USA. In Putin's Russia, he'd be tossed out of the country in the hurry, if he advocated against Vlady in a similar way. Remember, chess champ Gary Kasparov did that and now, he'd moved his entire family out of Russia and into America. Thus, there is a difference. In the US, a lot of that stuff is covert. In Russia, it's pretty much the way it is.

thunderlips11 says

he must be a dictator

Yes, he's a dictator but so what?

When is it our business to tell others, what form of govt they want to run?

Rin says

Yes and no. In the west, it's intelligence, military, or financial douchebags who weasel their ways to the top govt positions like President, etc.

I think he's a "Strong Executive" from a country with a history of preferring longer executive terms and strong leaders. Dictator is too strong for me.

Maybe we can have a word like "Consul" to describe countries led by long standing executives.

How long did Lee Kew or Rhee lead Singapore and South Korea? (Okay, Rhee was definitely close to Dictator).

Agreed about who were are to tell others what to do. The Russians generally seem happy with him.

Shit, the hottest item in Russia are "Putin Hercules" shirts.

But of course most Russians love Putin. Under Yelstin, they slept under bridges and the mafia gunned down people in broad daylight, the country was weak, and everybody laughed at Russia.

Love him or hate him, the State Department did not laugh when he smacked down Georgia, took back the Crimea, or REALLY pissed off the US/EU by building the gas line to Turkey and getting around their Bulgarian blocking tactic.

Any Pipeline from Central Asia or the Gulf must go through Turkey, so they can't isolate Turkey, and they're gonna have a hard time making some legal case about "Turk Stream" being illegal. Especially since the EU has snubbed Turkey's membership for decades.

Rin says

In Putin's case, it's a more direct correlation. You're either on his team or you're out. Thus, the former exec of Yukos is in jail and his assets are under the govt's protection.

Well, Yukos is an interesting story. How it was acquired is a long tale of many assassinations, from city mayors begging for taxes to be paid to banks who held stock interest in the company. However, that shit went down until Yeltsin, and Putin was not involved (at least not directly) since he was Deputy Mayor of St. Petersburg.

thunderlips11 says

Rin says

Yes and no. In the west, it's intelligence, military, or financial douchebags who weasel their ways to the top govt positions like President, etc.

I think he's a "Strong Executive" from a country with a history of preferring longer executive terms and strong leaders. Dictator is probably too strong.

Maybe we can have a word like "Consul" to describe countries led by long standing executives.

How long did Lee Kew or Rhee lead Singapore and South Korea? (Okay, Rhee was definitely close to Dictator).

Yes, however, in those east Asian societies, it's a quiet oligopoly. The ppl in the know, keep things to themselves. The Caebols or cartels do not upset the applecart.

In Russia, it's really about former party members, privatizing the Soviet system and thus, it's an ongoing process but the end result is the same, you're either on Putin's team or not. BTW, I have no problems with this, because I believe that nations can do what they want, within their own systems. The fact that everyone is treating this as newsworthy, is what's gotten me surprised.

Rin says

In Russia, it's really about former party members, privatizing the Soviet system and thus, it's an ongoing process but the end result is the same, you're either on Putin's team or not. BTW, I have no problems with this, because I believe that nations can do what they want, within their own systems. The fact that everyone is treating this as newsworthy, is what's gotten me surprised.

Agreed. But the "Second Coming of Stalin" crap is taken too far, like Putin is throwing everybody in Siberia for complaining about Food Prices, or Russians don't go on VKontakt and bitch about everything under the sun, don't make or play video games unless the United Russian Political Committee approves it, can't find their size shoe among the millions of imported Thai/Chinese/Cambodian shoes in the upteen different department stores and countless small stores, can't vacation to Miami Beach without permit from national committee, or can't make movies without United Russia approval and all of this Putin-Hitler nonsense.

Most of middle America believes that, or a version of it.

I think Putin's regime is probably what Russia may have looked like if the Liberals had beaten off the Bolsheviks.

Rin says

Yes, however, in those east Asian societies, it's a quiet oligopoly. The ppl in the know, keep things to themselves. The Caebols or cartels do not upset the applecart.

Well Rin, I think Putin is a Eurasianist. That is, he doesn't see Russia as an entirely European State, but a mixed one. He is very interested in China and has made many trips to the East and Southeast.

This may be the kind of society he's aiming for, since Russian "National Spirit" seems to prefer robustness and stability over efficiency and dynamism.

thunderlips11 says

"Second Coming of Stalin"

That's the loser press/media, looking for a tall tale.

In reality, Putin is a type of benevolent dictator, within his own system. Sure, as a dictator, he does cruel things periodically, but that's in the course of every dictator's work, unlike Uncle Stalin, who was a genocidal maniac.

The fact that Putin's been a dictator for a good number of years and that the western press didn't address whether or not an authoritarian regime in Russia was good or not, tells me that these folks are a bunch of imbeciles. And the fact that they waited till 2014 to make a stink, undermines their credibility.

In '67, General Suharto took over Indonesia by force. In America, he was considered a hero against communism. Well, during those times, a million or so ppl were killed during the various uprisings and purges. For the next 30 years, he ruled as a dictator with America's blessings. Thus, we're in no place to tell others, how to run their govts. I see Putin in a similar situation as Suharto but w/o America's tutelage.

Well, I agree with you.

Putin certainly didn't handle the Chechen rednecks with kid gloves.

Then again, "We tortured some folks". Many of whom were nobodies, marginally, if at all involved in any jihad. Some were utterly innocent like Arar, the Canadian guy we sent to Assad.

The one thing I admire most about Putin - he's a statesmen, in the sense that Cardinal Richeleau or Bismarck was a statesman. He really knows how to run some geopolitical moves. His last one with South Stream, now Turk Stream, really caused some fireworks in the EU and made another wedge between Southern Europe and the Northern.

His move taking back Crimea - and mentioning how NATO occupied Kosovo and also held a referendum where Serbs were allowed no vote on Kosovo - was also Genius.

"Hey, you make me uncomfortable, I make sure you don't get the "unsinkable Black Sea Aircraft Carrier". Besides, it's ours any way".