patrick.net

I believe all threads should have a color commentator...

thunderlips11 says

SoftShell says

Israel will be our proxy as the oil fields of Iran burn.

It's all neocon tough talk rubbish.

Yeah, Russia a super great place to be...

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-watchdog-blocks-pages-calling-navalny-support-protest-142219122.html

"Russia's Internet watchdog is working to block social networking sites rallying support for a mass protest next month backing Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny, activists said on Monday."

Just keep telling yourself that..

Here is another pro-Russian article... I wasn't even looking for these.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-growls-across-border-lithuania-readies-euro-090922556.html

"Geopolitics plague Lithuanians at this frozen Russian border post, where a return trip by car can mean 48 hours of queuing. It is a reminder for some of why the former Soviet republic will cement its move to the West by joining the euro zone next month."

just_passing_through says

"Russia's Internet watchdog is working to block social networking sites rallying support for a mass protest next month backing Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny, activists said on Monday."

Uh huh. Tell me about the new "Ministry of Truth" in the Ukraine.

You do realize that Navalny is less popular in Russia than the Constitution Party is in the US. What does Yabloko, darling of Neoliberals, poll? 3-5%? I think last time they were just a percentage point away from getting a whole one seat in the Duma.

just_passing_through says

"Geopolitics plague Lithuanians at this frozen Russian border post, where a return trip by car can mean 48 hours of queuing. It is a reminder for some of why the former Soviet republic will cement its move to the West by joining the euro zone next month."

So unreasonable, after Lithuanians are serving in the Ukraine government itself, and they've emptied their military warehouses for the Donbass Punitive Operation.

Do you think the next time fascism rises in Europe, the Lithuanians will greet them with roses and start killing the Jews 24 hours before they see the first Wehrmacht soldier like last time? Or will they actually wait for them to arrive first and bring them double stuff Oreos?

Blurtman says

What happens when US client state Israel bombs Chinese investments in Iran? Will China, as Russia has been doing to some degree, arm Iran?

If they are dumb enough to invest in Iran, they deserve to lose it all.

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

Russia has to turn for help to third world countries

Strategist, as they say in the South, "Bless your heart."

Thanks for the blessings.
Thunder, when are you gonna stop supporting that foolish dictator Putin, and start supporting someone sensible that has values like Gorbachev?

thunderlips11 says

Uh huh. Tell me about the new "Ministry of Truth" in the Ukraine.

I really don't care Mr. Lips. Maybe they are liars too maybe they aren't. I sure as shit know that Mr. Putin and his ilk are liars.

What is your fascination with the Russians anyway? I've got plenty of former Russian friends ( all in biotech ) and none of them are pro-Putin. They were warning me about him way back in 2004.

It's really too bad that "apparently" so many Russians are buying into the whole nationalist BS Putin is slinging. I mean. It all comes from the fact that they were (and still are but don't have to be) the backwater in Europe as they have been since the time before Catherine the Great. Why can't they just get their shit together and join in with the other Europeans? Too much water under the bridge?

I get Crimea sort of. It used to be part of Russia before the Soviets gave it to Ukraine. All of the other shit Putin has been doing over the past 6 years is BS. In fact, I don't think Crimea was handled well either.

Strategist says

start supporting someone sensible that has values like Gorbachev?

Great.
"Gorbachev blames West for new Cold War"
http://time.com/3630352/mikhail-gorbachev-vladimir-putin-cold-war/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11268298/Mikhail-Gorbachev-accuses-US-of-stoking-new-Cold-War.html

just_passing_through says

I've got plenty of former Russian friends ( all in biotech ) and none of them are pro-Putin. They were warning me about him way back in 2004.

There were plenty of people who hated FDR and insisted he was going to become a dictator every year from 33-45. 2004 is ten years ago. In that time, the standard of living has doubled, Russia's debt is entirely gone, and it sits on a pile of foreign reserves. As for democracy, Shushter and the Moscow Times and Navalny scream at Putin in Moscow like Fox News screams at Al Sharpton all day.

The US MSM lies their ass off too. Libyans wanting "Democracy", Yellowcake, Hussein had WMDs and could use them in 45 minutes, etc.

just_passing_through says

Why can't they just get their shit together and join in with the other Europeans? Too much water under the bridge?

just_passing_through says

I get Crimea sort of. It used to be part of Russia before the Soviets gave it to Ukraine. All of the other shit Putin has been doing over the past 6 years is BS. In fact, I don't think Crimea was handled well either.

So was Donbass. Both regions were undemocratically grafted into the Ukraine by the Communists, mostly to balance out the hicks in West Ukraine with industrial workers.

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

start supporting someone sensible that has values like Gorbachev?

Great.

"Gorbachev blames West for new Cold War"

He is not the same Gorbachev as in the 1980's. He is old and out of touch. I bet he can't even figure out how to use a cell phone. He might also think Pussy Riot is a cat named Riot.

Right, I've maybe met 50 or so since 2004 and every single one of them hates the fuck out of Putin. All cool people. Nobody wants to go back because it's still so fucked up over there. Incidentally my Indian co-workers don't want to go back to India even though they can live like kings at this point because there is still comparatively too much fucked up crap there too vs. the US.

So you are equating Putin with Sharpton. I keep hoping someone takes his ass out. He's got blood on his hands yet again as of this week! I don't watch FOX but mostly because I don't have cable. May I assume you're an MSNBC follower - I mean of your USA sources. They sure like Sharpton on that show.

Again, what is your fascination with Russia?

Donbass right... So you think it's OK for Russia to take that industrial region with the Ukraine needs ( especially due to their economic situation ) even though it was previously agreed that they would not in the 90s. And similarly Crimea.

The chance of you being jailed in the USA is much higher than Rusia.
Also for a former communist country-they have way lower taxes than we do. here we are expected to share our wealth with 300# welfare folks and every family is under control of the gubmnt-with the gubmnt mandating down to the cent how much you have to pay your ex and children. On top of that in some states, your adult child can go to any college he/she wants and you have to pay for it-no questions asked.

Oh and the nSA spying makes the KGB look like amateurs. I think we have to take a long hard look at ourselves-before we go try and change the world.

lostand confused says

The chance of you being jailed in the uSA is much higher than Rusiia.

That's because no one in Russia dares break the laws we take for granted in the US. Saudi is even worse. Just try taking of your garbage bag and showing your face.

lostand confused says

Oh and the nSA spying makes the KGB look like amateurs.

I certainly hope so.

lostand confused says

I think we have to take a long hard look at ourselves-before we go try and change the world.

We already did. Time to change the world.

Strategist says

lostand confused says

The chance of you being jailed in the uSA is much higher than Rusiia.

That's because no one in Russia dares break the laws we take for granted in the US. Saudi is even worse. Just try taking of your garbage bag and showing your face.

lostand confused says

Oh and the nSA spying makes the KGB look like amateurs.

I certainly hope so.

lostand confused says

I think we have to take a long hard look at ourselves-before we go try and change the world.

We already did. Time to change the world.

This is how dictatorships start. When normal citizens take freedom for granted. I am beginning to wonder if freedom will end during my lifetime in this country-we are heading there faster and faster -with both parties complicit and with citizens cheering for an end to freedom.

lostand confused says

The chance of you being jailed in the USA is much higher than Rusia.

Maybe true but we can cut that in half by decriminalizing weed. The chance of you being assassinated by the govt in Russia is much higher than it is here.

lostand confused says

Also for a former communist country-they have way lower taxes than we do.

You might have liked to have been a fly on the wall at lunch with my Bulgarian manager, a Georgian co-worker and my peer from Moscow a few years ago. It was discussed that yeah, nobody pays taxes in that part of the world. Well, they do sort of toss a pittance at the govt so it looks like they paid something but everyone hides all transactions as much as possible. It's built into the culture. Barter as much as possible and lie about how much you made as much as possible.

lostand confused says

Oh and the nSA spying makes the KGB look like amateurs.

I hope so!

lostand confused says

I think we have to take a long hard look at ourselves-before we go try and change the world.

Honest self reflection is always a good thing.

lostand confused says

This is how dictatorships start. When normal citizens take freedom for granted. I am beginning to wonder if freedom will end during my lifetime in this country-we are heading there faster and faster -with both parties complicit and with citizens cheering for an end to freedom.

Bizaroworld lately eh?

Strategist says

He is not the same Gorbachev as in the 1980's. He is old and out of touch. I bet he can't even figure out how to use a cell phone. He might also think Pussy Riot is a cat named Riot.

Nice backpedal.

You may be suffering from:
http://bit.ly/syl2Fc

Pussy Riot ain't shit vs. Fergusson, Snowden, or Manning.

What are we on now, the 5th cop a prosecutor has declined to prosecute or acted as a defense attorney for during a grand jury in so many weeks?

thunderlips11 says

Pussy Riot ain't shit vs. Fergusson, Snowden, or Manning.

And because those ladies did it in Russia I'd say they've got more balls than all the balls in Fergusson + Snowdens. Manning has ( or plans to ) cut his off.

just_passing_through says

Right, I've maybe met 50 or so since 2004 and every single one of them hates the fuck out of Putin. All cool people. Nobody wants to go back because it's still so fucked up over there. Incidentally my Indian co-workers don't want to go back to India even though they can live like kings at this point because there is still comparatively too much fucked up crap there too vs. the US.

This is anecdotal evidence. It's nice that you mention it, but the fact is Russia is the #2 world destination for immigrants since 2009. At least earlier this year, the unemployment rate was 5.1% - just over what is considered "Full Employment".

thunderlips11 says

This is anecdotal evidence.

True...

just_passing_through says

Donbass right... So you think it's OK for Russia to take that industrial region with the Ukraine needs ( especially due to their economic situation ) even though it was previously agreed that they would not in the 90s. And similarly Crimea.

Has nothing to do with need. It's that people who identify as Russians don't want to live in a country where Stepan Bandera, a Nazi Collaborator whose UPA killed god knows how many Russians, Poles, and Jews, is a "National Hero" also with Roman Shashtaiforgetovitch.

They want to live in a country where election results are respected.

Jesus, Yankuvytch was going to call early elections anyway in mere weeks, he agreed to this in an EU-brokered deal, but the coup plotters removed him anyway.

That ain't democracy.

They want to live in a country where a president isn't unconstitutionally removed for having police battle elements within the Maiden Protests that were violent and armed, but whose successors feel free to bomb and shell cities.

Basically, what happened in the Ukraine is the Donbass Democrats had their duly-elected, world-certified free and fair elected president deposed in a coup. Now, the coup government is cutting off their pensions, bombing them, etc. because they resist this.

Why do you support an anti-democratic coup?

For all love, Poroshenko gave a speech where he basically said the children of Donbass will have to live in basements.

There is not interest in any kind of compromise to restore democracy - there is a desire to have a frozen conflict, and gain in US bribe money to keep it going.

thunderlips11 says

Why do you support an anti-democratic coup?

I'm not so certain that is/was the case. In fact, I'd guess that is not true. The deposed was pretty tight with Putin no? As I was told in 04 he ain't going anywhere and he sure hasn't. Are you going to tell me Russia has had democratic elections and that's how Putin has been able to cycle back through?

Assuming you're right though: Why are NATO European countries pushing back on Russia? Are you going to tell me that it's all due to the US strong arming them?

just_passing_through says

And because those ladies did it in Russia I'd say they've got more balls than all the balls in Fergusson + Snowdens. Manning has ( or plans to ) cut his off.

That's fine, but Pussy Riot is your typical Berkley Social Justice Warriors. They were complaining about giving tax breaks and subsidies to mothers at the church, something that is completely ordinary in the USA. They and their Voina colleagues (Pussy Riot is a splinter of the latter) have had orgies in museums and even shoved an entire chicken up their vagina in a public supermarket

Imagine what would happen if a bunch of "Art Students" went to Winn-Dixie and shoved a frozen chicken up where the sun don't shine?

Tazering, Beatings, Jon Stewart himself would laugh at them, and they'd probably be registered sex offenders at a minimum for life.

just_passing_through says

I'm not so certain that is/was the case. In fact, I'd guess that is not true. The deposed was pretty tight with Putin no? As I was told in 04 he ain't going anywhere and he sure hasn't. Are you going to tell me Russia has had democratic elections and that's how Putin has been able to cycle back through?

The deposed was negotiating with the EU about joining, but at the last minute, complications arose that as an EU member, they would be prohibited from joining the Eurasians Customs Union. This is important, because Russia takes 50% of all Ukrainian Exports. Yankuvytch got cold feet and wanted a renegotiation of the deal. Then all the protests broke lose.

He was a duly elected and certified president.

It's worse than that. In the weeks that followed the coup, armed groups beat up TV station managers, MPs, and other politicians. It was violent intimidation, and coordinated. Video:
http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/19/ukranian-tv-boss-assaulted-and-forced-to-resign-by-far-right-svoboda-mps/

The guy who did this not only was elected under the unconstitutional coup government, he was appointed to the Rada version of the Free Speech and Freedom of the Press Committee!

Then they disarmed the Donbass police, then demanded they quell the protests in the Donbass. They sent thousands of soccer hooligans to Odessa, and the "mysterious" Odessa Fire happened that killed many people. Needless to say, Kiev hasn't been doing much in they way of "investigation".

The whole of Ukraine is, if anything, more corrupt and oligarchical than it was before the coup. I've posted video of armed men, hundreds of miles from Donbass in a peaceful area of Ukraine, attacking a refinery and harassing/arresting the workers. It's all out mafia war - who can control the most resources for re-sale to the EU Multinationals that will move in later.

thunderlips11 says

entire chicken up their vagina in a public supermarket

Hahahahaha... Awesome!

Yeah, I saw some of the orgy pictures. Chicken is hard to believe unless it was cut up or a small bird.

Balsy! Not might type but balsy!

thunderlips11 says

It's all out mafia war

Now that sounds believable and you clearly are more informed about the situation than I am... I usually scroll pretty fast past long posts and from some skims you sounded like some propaganda outlet initially. Thanks for the replies man. I've got to finish packing for a trip to visit family or I'd ask for more. Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays and all that jazz.

Along those lines I'm hoping someone posts a 2015 predictions thread on patnet as is usually done. I never chime in but enjoy reading those on my phone at airports.

just_passing_through says

Maybe true but we can cut that in half by decriminalizing weed. The chance of you being assassinated by the govt in Russia is much higher than it is here.

In 2003, Putin started an anti-oligarch campaign. He had been President since 2000.

I do not doubt for one second he had to present himself first as their ally, then he turned against them. There was no way to get power without doing so in the first place, utterly impossible.

The funny thing was, the Western Press that went "Oh bad, how sad" over Oligarchs in Russia, suddenly said "Putin Dictator" when he started putting the worst offenders in jail for assassination conspiracies, tax evasion, fraud, and theft.

This isn't a surprise when one considers that US Foreign Policy Maestros like ZBig have been calling for a weak Russia, decentralized, and preferably ruled by Oligarchs easily bribed for a long time.

The most ludicrous conspiracy theories, like Putin bombing Moscow to find an excuse to intervene in Grozny, are entertained in the most allegedly dignified papers in the US - the same papers who blow off any negative-to-USG conspiracies and have a long history of headpatting on torture, Saudi preferential treatment, etc.

lostand confused says

This is how dictatorships start. When normal citizens take freedom for granted. I am beginning to wonder if freedom will end during my lifetime in this country-we are heading there faster and faster -with both parties complicit and with citizens cheering for an end to freedom.

Absolutely.

Our moral Calvinism has gotten utterly out of control.

just_passing_through says

Now that sounds believable and you clearly are more informed about the situation than I am... I usually scroll pretty fast past long posts and from some skims you sounded like some propaganda outlet initially. Thanks for the replies man. I've got to finish packing for a trip to visit family or I'd ask for more. Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays and all that jazz.

Right on. It's an ill wind that blows no minds. Russia has plenty of problems, too, of course. Have a great Holiday!

Sounds just like another Sunday afternoon at SlutBitchHoe's house...

just_passing_through says

thunderlips11 says

entire chicken up their vagina in a public supermarket

Hahahahaha... Awesome!

Yeah, I saw some of the orgy pictures. Chicken is hard to believe unless it was cut up or a small bird.

Balsy! Not might type but balsy!

Bad comparison.
In russia, most of the time you just disappear...

lostand confused says

The chance of you being jailed in the USA is much higher than Rusia.

SoftShell says

Bad comparison.

In russia, most of the time you just disappear...

lostand confused says

The chance of you being jailed in the USA is much higher than Rusia.

In the US, the president has the power to make you disappear-no trial, no charges-just disappear. Despite many efforts, he won't divulge how many have disappeared-or if he has used that power. So what's the difference??

the difference is in the statistics you reference.
Less percentage of people in jail in russia, or do you think they are all saints over there in comparison to US?

lostand confused says

SoftShell says

Bad comparison.

In russia, most of the time you just disappear...

lostand confused says

The chance of you being jailed in the USA is much higher than Rusia.

In the US, the president has the power to make you disappear-no trial, no charges-just disappear. Despite many efforts, he won't divulge how many have disappeared-or if he has used that power. So what's the difference??

SoftShell says

the difference is in the statistics you reference.

Less percentage of people in jail in russia, or do you think they are all saints over there in comparison to US

Maybe they just don't have a prison industrial complex that earns huge amount of money by imprisoning people for non violent crimes and ruining their lives for ever by creating records.

When law enforcement becomes a business and livelihood for millions-then people become livestock.

Law enforcement only appears as a business and livelihood to people who expose themselves to it through their own stupid, ignorant illegal actions.

lostand confused says

When law enforcement becomes a business and livelihood for millions-then people become livestock.

To the vast majority of law abiding folks, it does not appear as anything at all, as it is not a part of their lives.