patrick.net

tatupu70 says

Anti-vaxxers aren't just delaying their kid's vaccinations, they are refusing them.

Nope. The political/economic agenda of the vax advocates is get vax early and get vax often, in order to maximize the profit of vaccine makers.

Most parents who are against giving their newborns vaccine are simply trying to delay vaccination by 1-3 years. The propagandists are giving parents tons of grief for being responsible parents.

Reality says

Nope. The political/economic agenda of the vax advocates is get vax early and get vax often, in order to maximize the profit of vaccine makers.

Most parents who are against giving their newborns vaccine are simply trying to delay vaccination by 1-3 years. The propagandists are giving parents tons of grief for being responsible parents.

That is patently false. The anti-vaxxers are against vaccines at any age.

There may be a set of folks who want to delay vaccines by a few years, but they are not the core of the anti-vaxx crowd.

Reality says

Vaccine guideline is nothing more than an educated guess on where to draw the line between two overlapping Gaussian curves (risk of disease exposure while unvaccinated vs. risk of side effect from the vaccines themselves). The vaccine guideline for kids living in a 3rd world hell hole refugee camp would be very different from the guideline for someone living in even the urban slums in the US. Likewise, the guideline for densely packed urban slums would be very different from what is needed for suburban responsible parents who conduct life in a way that their infants have very little disease exposure. The government bureaucrats have their hands tied by political correctness to publish different guidelines, and frankly the bureaucrats do not know enough about any specific family to tailor guideline for each child.

Would they? The chances for contracting disease might be higher in a 3rd world hellhole, but the guidelines very likely would be the same. Palatine, IL is clearly an upper middle class suburb--are you going to argue that risks of vaccine side effects outweigh the risks of measles there?

tatupu70 says

Reality says

Nope. The political/economic agenda of the vax advocates is get vax early and get vax often, in order to maximize the profit of vaccine makers.

Most parents who are against giving their newborns vaccine are simply trying to delay vaccination by 1-3 years. The propagandists are giving parents tons of grief for being responsible parents.

That is patently false. The anti-vaxxers are against vaccines at any age.

There may be a set of folks who want to delay vaccines by a few years, but they are not the core of the anti-vaxx crowd.

LOL. So you are not against people who are selective about which vaccine to administer and when?

Reality says

LOL. So you are not against people who are selective about which vaccine to administer and when?

I am, but I make a distinction between folks who are anti-vaccination and those are which to delay by a year.

tatupu70 says

Would they? The chances for contracting disease might be higher in a 3rd world hellhole, but the guidelines very likely would be the same. Palatine, IL is clearly an upper middle class suburb--are you going to argue that risks of vaccine side effects outweigh the risks of measles there?

There are numerous additional vaccines that are recommended for travelers to 3rd world hell holes but not recommended at all for the average American living in the US. Your presumption that the guidelines would be the same can only lead one to conclude:

1. You assert vaccines have zero risk, which is false;

2. You don't understand statistics and probability.

I have no idea where Palatin, IL is, nor is it particularly revelant unless you can prove that more people have died in that place due to not using vaccine than all vaccine deaths in all of US.

tatupu70 says

Reality says

LOL. So you are not against people who are selective about which vaccine to administer and when?

I am, but I make a distinction between folks who are anti-vaccination and those are which to delay by a year.

Why only a year? Even CDC recommend some vaccines after kids are over 4years old; some much older. You are nothing more than a mindless propagandist reading off whatever script is handed to you.

Heard something funny about vaccines the other day.....
Kid with measles goes to the doctor. The doctor tells him "If you connect all the dots, it spells....My parents are idiots"

Reality says

There are numerous additional vaccines that are recommended for travelers to 3rd world hell holes but not recommended at all for the average American living in the US. Your presumption that the guidelines would be the same can only lead one to conclude:

1. You assert vaccines have zero risk, which is false;

2. You don't understand statistics and probability.

I have no idea where Palatin, IL is, nor is it particularly revelant unless you can prove that more people have died in that place due to not using vaccine than all vaccine deaths in all of US.

True--I was thinking only of the vaccines that are recommended for folks in the US, since that's what we are discussing. So, let's get back to the point at hand--should folks in middle class suburbia, USA be required to be vaccinated against measles? Probably and statistics say yes. What say you?

tatupu70 says

There are numerous additional vaccines that are recommended for travelers to 3rd world hell holes but not recommended at all for the average American living in the US. Your presumption that the guidelines would be the same can only lead one to conclude:

1. You assert vaccines have zero risk, which is false;

2. You don't understand statistics and probability.

I have no idea where Palatin, IL is, nor is it particularly revelant unless you can prove that more people have died in that place due to not using vaccine than all vaccine deaths in all of US.

True--I was thinking only of the vaccines that are recommended for folks in the US, since that's what we are discussing. So, let's get back to the point at hand--should folks in middle class suburbia, USA be required to be vaccinated against measles? Probably and statistics say yes. What say you?

Glad you finally agree that different circumstances dictate different statistical/probabilistic optima for vaccine scheduling.

For a family making $40-50k a year living in NYC or SFBA, getting the measles vaccine at age 1 is a good idea due to likely neighborhood population density and likely use of public transportation. OTOH, for a family living on over an acre of land, not sending kid or bringing kid to any venue with recirculated air shared with hundreds of other people, holding off on the MMR to 4+ is a lower risk than risk to vaccine side effects. That's for MMR specifically. For numerous other vaccines, the risk of vaccine itself could well be higher than exposure to the disease for much longer time (until higher age), some forever until a trip to the likes of African jungle is planned.

Reality says

For numerous other vaccines, the risk of vaccine itself could well be higher than exposure to the disease for much longer time (until higher age), some forever until a trip to the likes of African jungle is planned.

OK-so you agree all children need the MMR vaccine?