patrick.net

Bigsby says

Except that wasn't what was being argued, was it?

You seem to be arguing that America is responsible for ISIS or have some sort of moral or historical culpability for it.

I'm arguing that America or the West didn't "create" ISIS. Islam and backward Arab culture created ISIS. Unless you are going to credit the liberation of Iraq with the "Arab Spring", the region (including Syria) was going to implode sooner than later.

An argument can certainly be made that Obama and Hilary enabled ISIS by pulling every last troop out of Iraq while deposing Gadaffi creating an even bigger void and opportunity for ISIS to make massive gains. I can't defend Obama and Hillary's actions over the last 6 years in foreign policy.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

Islam is the breeding ground of terrorism. It also breeds violence, human rights abuse and cruelty that does belongs in the stone age.


Show me where I am wrong.

Did you notice what happened after a handful of nutters carried out 9/11? Do you remember how revved up the US got? Before that event, acts of terrorism were few and far between despite what had happened in Afghanistan. Nearly 15 years later and after all the bombings and killings, many/most of which were of complete innocents, you seem surprised that a very small proportion of that faith, particularly the young and impressionable, have become radicalized, but quite happy to tar everyone with the same brush. Your sweeping generalizations on this forum are both tedious and ill-informed.

Go ahead, blame Americans and the West for everything that is related to Islamic terror. The Hindus in India have lived through genocide and continuous Islamic terrorism. You can't blame America for that. Russia and the Philippines also are victims of these wackos, so who do you blame here? The one and only common thread in worldwide terrorism is Islam. How are we gonna solve this problem when you and millions deny the root cause.

sbh says

socal2 says

You seem to be arguing that America is responsible for ISIS or have some sort of moral or historical culpability for it.

No, that's what you want his position to be. What's so hard about the concept of fractional culpability?

He IS blaming America. I don't hear him say it was Islam that is the root cause.

sbh says

socal2 says

I'm arguing that America or the West didn't "create" ISIS.

No one thing did "create" it.

It was two things....Allah and Mohammad, the greatest terrorist to ever walk the earth.

socal2 says

You seem to be arguing that America is responsible for ISIS or have some sort of moral or historical culpability for it.

I'm not arguing that America literally created ISIS, but it's obvious that the foreign policy of the US since 9/11 has created the environment for it to take root.
socal2 says

An argument can certainly be made that Obama and Hilary enabled ISIS by pulling every last troop out of Iraq while deposing Gadaffi creating an even bigger void and opportunity for ISIS to make massive gains. I can't defend Obama and Hillary's actions over the last 6 years in foreign policy.

Curious you didn't mention Bush in there. And the withdrawal of troops was Obama following what Bush had already agreed, was it not? And deposing Gaddafi had nothing to do with the creation of ISIS. The lack of any meaningful effort to stabilize the country post his death has allowed Islamic militias to fill the void.

Call it Crazy says

Ahhhh, that explains the ONE thread you've started in 4 years.... You NEVER have anything of substance to say... Kinda explains why 13 people have "flushed" you...

I'm obviously just not as invested in the site as you are, or as interested in trying to get a rise out of others as you seem to be. And yes, 13 people have blocked me. I know one is the Professor for his moronic 9/11 conspiracy beliefs. One I don't know. The other 11 came at the same time several years ago when I was in the middle of a flame war with that multiple personality troll Darrell/LiarInPhoenix etc. etc. What's the reason for your nine ignores? And have you noticed that all the people who seem to dislike you the most don't actually have you on ignore. I guess because they want to take the piss out of your utter stupidity.

Strategist says

Go ahead, blame Americans and the West for everything that is related to Islamic terror.

I'm not blaming them for everything, but they have clearly contributed to the problem, or would you like to explain why this situation is so much worse now than it was a few decades ago?

Strategist says

The Hindus in India have lived through genocide and continuous Islamic terrorism. You can't blame America for that.

Eh? There were mass killings on both sides in India during the partition. Why focus on just the Muslims?
Strategist says

The one and only common thread in worldwide terrorism is Islam. How are we gonna solve this problem when you and millions deny the root cause.

How do you explain the fact that this wasn't a major issue just a few decades ago? What happened in those intervening years?

Bigsby says

Strategist says

Go ahead, blame Americans and the West for everything that is related to Islamic terror.

I'm not blaming them for everything, but they have clearly contributed to the problem, or would you like to explain why this situation is so much worse now than it was a few decades ago?

When we invaded Iraq, we installed a soft puppet who could bring democracy to the region. We fail to understand that the Mid East Muslims are not ready for democracy. They will only take advantage of any democracy to install Islam and it's disgusting sharia laws. This created a vacuum, and Islam being the evil it is, quickly dominated.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

The Hindus in India have lived through genocide and continuous Islamic terrorism. You can't blame America for that.

Eh? There were mass killings on both sides in India during the partition. Why focus on just the Muslims?

You seem to conveniently forget the genocide that is well documented in the thousand years leading up to that partition massacre. You also forget the terrorism that took place in India by Muslims since then.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

The one and only common thread in worldwide terrorism is Islam. How are we gonna solve this problem when you and millions deny the root cause.

How do you explain the fact that this wasn't an issue at all just a few decades ago?

I notice you did not address the Russian and Phillipine terrorism that I mentioned. Why?
Islamic terror has been going on for 1,400 years, ever since this sick religion was created by a sick pedophile. These barbarians did not have suicide bombers 50 years, 100 years, and 200 years ago because they did not have access to bombs.

Bigsby says

Curious you didn't mention Bush in there. And the withdrawal of troops was Obama following what Bush had already agreed, was it not?

Which Bush - 1 or 2? How about Clinton? According to Bin Laden, one of his main reasons for 9/11 was stationing US troops in Saudi Arabia to enforce no fly zones to protect the Kurds and Shia from getting murdered by Saddam, Heck, we can go back to Eisenhower era for the US and Brits teaching Gulf Arabs to pump their oil if we want to keep making excuses for Islamists.

ISIS only grew in the last 2 years under Obama's watch when he foolishly pulled every last troop out of Iraq. ISIS predecessor (AQI) got the ever living shit beat out of them by US troops and the Anbar awakening. We just had to keep enough forces around to protect the gains. Back then, even Slow Joe Biden was saying Iraq would be "one of this Administration's greatest achievements."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOcPCrGRs6k

They threw it all away and humanity is now facing the consequences.

@bigsby why are you so supportive of Islam. It puzzles me. I have seen some of the arguments you have made on conspiracy theories. You seem to be an intelligent liberal. But why do you guys defend Islam so much? Do you think the Sharia laws meet your liberal morals? Do you? It makes no sense at all.

Strategist says

When we invaded Iraq, we installed a soft puppet who could bring democracy to the region. We fail to understand that the Mid East Muslims are not ready for democracy. They will only take advantage of any democracy to install Islam and it's disgusting sharia laws. This created a vacuum, and Islam being the evil it is, quickly dominated.

Simplistic in the extreme. Maliki divided that country on sectarian grounds, totally isolating the Sunnis in favour of the Shias. Why do you think the tribes in the Sunni regions thought rule under ISIS was more favourable to that of Maliki?
And you can't just plonk democracy on nations that have never experienced it, and most certainly in nations that have been under the boot of the kind of rulers Iraq, Syria, Libya and Egypt were subjected to, and suddenly expect everything to run smoothly.

Strategist says

You seem to conveniently forget the genocide that is well documented in the thousand years leading up to that partition massacre. You also forget the terrorism that took place in India by Muslims since then.

You mean when one nation invades another and commits atrocities? And obviously such atrocities never happened when Christian countries invaded other nations. And exactly what constitutes genocide to you?
You seem to have forgotten the acts of terrorism that have taken place in India by Hindu nationalists and the like.

Strategist says

I notice you did not address the Russian and Phillipine terrorism that I mentioned. Why?

So I have to address every single point, do I? Many regions of the old USSR have been destabilized by what has gone on post break up. The trouble in those regions isn't solely down to the fact that, for example, the Chechens did it 'because they are Muslim,' is it? As for the Phillipines, I don't know the historical details of that insurgency so perhaps you'd care to inform us of its background.

Strategist says

@bigsby why are you so supportive of Islam. It puzzles me. I have seen some of the arguments you have made on conspiracy theories. You seem to be an intelligent liberal. But why do you guys defend Islam so much? Do you think the Sharia laws meet your liberal morals? Do you? It makes no sense at all.

It's not an issue of defending Islam. It's an issue with the fact that so many people on here and elsewhere seem to have turned a completely blind eye to why things have deteriorated so badly and so quickly and simply want to blame Islam for that. Muslims seem to be filling the role of the new blacks for many. How much experience do people on here have of Muslims, their way of life, the beliefs that they adhere to in day-to-day life? Too many people seem all too willing to tar all with the same brush when the extremists causing all this havoc wouldn't even fill an average size Premiership football stadium.

And yes, I hear that all the time about Sharia law. What do you actually think the implementation of Sharia law amounts to in the majority of Muslim countries? The actual (rather than theoretical) implementation isn't nearly as problematic as you seem to think in most countries as they employ a mixed system. Obviously full Sharia law is extremely problematic to me, but then it isn't my culture or religious background and there seem to be a great deal of people in those countries unhappy about its reach. Muslim people are an incredibly diverse lot. The dumbing down of what it is that those people actually believe into one great monolithic entity is just foolish.

I heard when the moon is full, Abdullah grows horns, breathes fire, rides around on a wooden stick, smokes reefer, and plays jazz music.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

When we invaded Iraq, we installed a soft puppet who could bring democracy to the region. We fail to understand that the Mid East Muslims are not ready for democracy. They will only take advantage of any democracy to install Islam and it's disgusting sharia laws. This created a vacuum, and Islam being the evil it is, quickly dominated.

Simplistic in the extreme. Maliki divided that country on sectarian grounds, totally isolating the Sunnis in favour of the Shias. Why do you think the tribes in the Sunni regions thought rule under ISIS was more favourable to that of Maliki?

And you can't just plonk democracy on nations that have never experienced it, and most certainly in nations that have been under the boot of the kind of rulers Iraq, Syria, Libya and Egypt were subjected to, and suddenly expect everything to run smoothly.

So why blame America?

Bigsby says

Strategist says

You seem to conveniently forget the genocide that is well documented in the thousand years leading up to that partition massacre. You also forget the terrorism that took place in India by Muslims since then.

You mean when one nation invades another and commits atrocities? And obviously such atrocities never happened when Christian countries invaded other nations. And exactly what constitutes genocide to you?

You seem to have forgotten the acts of terrorism that have taken place in India by Hindu nationalists and the like.

LOL. That does not make Islam any less barbaric.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

I notice you did not address the Russian and Phillipine terrorism that I mentioned. Why?

So I have to address every single point, do I? Many regions of the old USSR have been destabilized by what has gone on post break up. The trouble in those regions isn't solely down to the fact that, for example, the Chechens did it 'because they are Muslim,' is it? As for the Phillipines, I don't know the historical details of that insurgency so perhaps you'd care to inform us of its background.

Still defending Islam. Absolutely disgusting. OK, it's a free country, we won't take off your head for disagreeing.

Bigsby says

It's not an issue of defending Islam. It's an issue with the fact that so many people on here and elsewhere seem to have turned a completely blind eye to why things have deteriorated so badly and so quickly and simply want to blame Islam for that. Muslims seem to be filling the role of the new blacks for many. How much experience do people on here have of Muslims, their way of life, the beliefs that they adhere to in day-to-day life? Too many people seem all too willing to tar all with the same brush when the extremists causing all this havoc wouldn't even fill an average size Premiership football stadium.

Here are some facts....
99.99% of suicide bombers are Muslim.
There isn't a nation, that has Muslims, does not experience their terrorism.
The tens of thousands that rushed to join ISIS were ALL MUSLIMS.
My question to you Bigsby, is, do you believe Islam is a peaceful religion? I await an honest answer.

Strategist says

So why blame America?

Oh FFS, who do you think completely destabilized Iraq? Who disbanded the Iraqi army? Who put in power a leader who utterly sidelined the Sunni population in favour of the Shias? etc. etc.
Strategist says

LOL. That does not make Islam any less barbaric.

You may as well say every religion is barbaric. It's people who are barbaric.

Strategist says

Still defending Islam. Absolutely disgusting. OK, it's a free country, we won't take off your head for disagreeing.

WTF are you talking about? Its not an issue of defending Islam. It's an issue of looking at how situations have arisen from all aspects rather than simply jumping up and down and shouting 'It's Islam's fault. It's Islam's fault.'

Bigsby says

WTF are you talking about? Its not an issue of defending Islam. It's an issue of looking at how situations have arisen from all aspects rather than simply jumping up and down and shouting 'It's Islam's fault. It's Islam's fault.'

I ask you again....
My question to you Bigsby, is, do you believe Islam is a peaceful religion? I await an honest answer.

Strategist says

Here are some facts....

99.99% of suicide bombers are Muslim.

There isn't a nation, that has Muslims, does not experience their terrorism.

The tens of thousands that rushed to join ISIS were ALL MUSLIMS.

My question to you Bigsby, is, do you believe Islam is a peaceful religion? I await an honest answer.

Suicide bombings have been used during other conflicts as well. It strikes me as an act of desperation by a very small number of extremely fucked up/brainwashed/coerced people. It's Muslims who are fighting, so they are Muslim suicide bombers...
Most Muslim countries have had very few acts of terrorism in their borders. The countries that have the biggest terrorist problems also have the biggest problems in general.
Yes, Muslims joined a Muslim force. Remarkable. Why do you think these young people have been radicalized? What have they been exposed to over the last 15 years?
I don't believe Islam is particularly different to any religion. They can all be manipulated any way you like. It's people who are not peaceful. And if you create the circumstances for unrest, then you will get unrest, and it doesn't take very many radicalized/psychotic/murderous... people with guns to drag everyone down with them. You can take a look at plenty of non-muslim countries over the centuries to see how quickly things can fall apart.

Call it Crazy says

Hmmm... How many blacks have you seen lately beheading people??

How many black have been suicide bombers lately?

For that matter, how many Germans behead people this month? Any Irish people do some beheadings?

How many Italians over-ran and took over cities in Iraq the past year?

Just wondering...

A typically idiotic post from you. What a surprise.

Strategist says

I ask you again....

My question to you Bigsby, is, do you believe Islam is a peaceful religion? I await an honest answer.

You seem to want to argue that because a few tens of thousands of Muslims are creating chaos that Islam is somehow a religion of war? Is that what you are saying? Which countries have created the most chaos on the planet during human history? What religion was practiced in those countries? Is Christianity a peaceful religion then?
The vast majority of Muslims live in peace. That is a simple and obvious fact, so on that basis, Islam is a religion of peace to the vast majority who practice it.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

I ask you again....


My question to you Bigsby, is, do you believe Islam is a peaceful religion? I await an honest answer.

You seem to want to argue that because a few tens of thousands of Muslims are creating chaos that Islam is somehow a religion of war? Is that what you are saying? Which countries have created the most chaos on the planet during human history? What religion was practiced in those countries? Is Christianity a peaceful religion then?

The vast majority of Muslims live in peace. That is a simple and obvious fact, so on that basis, Islam is a religion of peace to the vast majority who practice it.

OK :) :) :)

Call it Crazy says

So, I take it that your answer would be none? Or were the questions too hard for you to answer?

No, they were just too stupid to bother answering.

Bigsby says

How much experience do people on here have of Muslims, their way of life, the beliefs that they adhere to in day-to-day life?

My next door neighbor is Iranian and fled with his family in 1979 when the crazy Mullahs took over.

Several of my clients are Iraqis and Kurds who fled Saddam in the 1990's. One of them was finally able to move back home to be with his family in 2008 when things were peaceful.

All were supportive of overthrowing Saddam.

socal2 says

Several of my clients are Iraqis and Kurds who fled Saddam in the 1990's. One of them was finally able to move back home to be with his family in 2008 when things were peaceful.

All were supportive of overthrowing Saddam.

Of course they were. They fled Saddam. And Iraq was hardly peaceful in 2008.

And I somehow doubt those people would serve to reinforce Strategists perception of Islam as a religion of terror. A good number of Kurds are actually very socialist in their outlook...

Like I said, a bit of contact with some clients is hardly much experience of Muslims, and I'd guess that is more than many on here.

Bigsby says

Like I said, a bit of contact with some clients is hardly much experience of Muslims, and I'd guess that is more than many on here.

To be fair, any contact Americans have with Muslims here in America is not all that credible of an experience as we tend to get the best and brightest and more secular variety.

Does Saudi Arabia represent "true Islam".

How about Egypt and Pakistan?
"Majorities of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan support the death penalty for leaving Islam"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/01/64-percent-of-muslims-in-egypt-and-pakistan-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/

Does the intolerant and hateful stuff preached in numerous UK mosques represent "true Islam"?
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/aug/22/channel4.islam

socal2 says

Does Saudi Arabia represent "true Islam".

How about Egypt and Pakistan?

You answer it yourself. Everywhere is different. What's true Christianity? A good number of your Bible belt hold views abhorrent to Europeans for example.
socal2 says

"Majorities of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan support the death penalty for leaving Islam"

That doesn't make it a religion of terror. It simply shows that those are very conservative and religious societies, something that is reinforced by the poor educational standards and levels of poverty there.

socal2 says

Does the intolerant and hateful stuff preached in numerous UK mosques represent "true Islam"?

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/aug/22/channel4.islam

Your religious right also spouts hateful and intolerant stuff and has hardly had the kind of forces at play pushing the more outspoken radicals to the forefront. You also have youth in Western countries caught between the conservatism of their families and the liberalism they see around them in day-to-day life. Like many young, they can be led by people manipulating them and playing on their anger at the perceived injustices done to Muslims. The internet has made that process far easier.

Bigsby says

It's a stupid question. You answer it yourself. Everywhere is different. What's true Christianity? A good number of your Bible belt hold views abhorrent to Europeans for example.

FFS - you can compare Christianity around the planet from the Catholics, Evangelicals, Eastern Orthodox from Europe, South America to Asia and you will find NOTHING as extreme as the beliefs in terms of large percentages about killing apostates and other extreme beliefs commonly found in the Muslim/Arab world. Not even remotely the same league.

Bigsby says

That doesn't make it a religion of terror. It simply shows that those are very conservative and religious societies, something that is reinforced by the poor educational standards and levels of poverty there.

The majority of world's Muslims live in poor and backwards societies. Some could even argue that it is specifically Islam that is holding them back.

socal2 says

FFS - you can compare Christianity around the planet from the Catholics, Evangelicals, Eastern Orthodox from Europe, South America to Asia and you will find NOTHING as extreme as the beliefs in terms of large percentages about killing apostates and other extreme beliefs commonly found in the Muslim/Arab world. Not even remotely the same league.

You don't have to go that far back to have exactly those sort of views expressed (and enforced) in Christianity. Remind me again how many centuries older Christianity is compared to Islam. There is that difference in age and that the West went through the enlightenment. Many parts of the Muslim world are little changed culturally to how they were centuries ago. That outlook needs to change and hopefully it will, but what is happening now is hardly going to encourage that. It is also more difficult in Islam because the Quran is viewed as the literal word of God. Christians ceased viewing the Bible like that centuries ago.

socal2 says

The majority of world's Muslims live in poor and backwards societies. Some could even argue that it is specifically Islam that is holding them back.

Some or you?

Bigsby says

Many parts of the Muslim world are little changed culturally to how they were centuries ago. That outlook needs to change and hopefully it will, but what is happening now is hardly going to encourage that. It is also more difficult in Islam because the Quran is viewed as the literal word of God.

The only thing that remotely civilized the Muslim/Arab world was European colonialism. And that certainly wasn't a complete success as we call all attest.

Saudi Arabia still had slavery in the 1960's until the US pressured them to ban it.

There is no way the Muslim/Arab world is going to modernize by itself in our lifetime. Or several lifetimes. If anything it's regressing right now. Larger percentages are more religious now with more women in Afghanistan, Iran and Egypt wearing full burqas now than they did in the 1970's.

socal2 says

The only thing that remotely civilized the Muslim/Arab world was European colonialism. And that certainly wasn't a complete success as we call all attest.

We didn't civilize them, we oppressed them and/or used them as part of the power struggles in the region.

socal2 says

There is no way the Muslim/Arab world is going to modernize by itself in our lifetime. Or several lifetimes. If anything it's regressing right now. Larger percentages are more religious now with more women in Afghanistan, Iran and Egypt wearing full burqas now than they did in the 1970's.

And why do you think that's the case? The meddling of the West this century and last has stoked exactly that.

Bigsby says

We didn't civilize them, we oppressed them and/or used them as part of the power struggles in the region.

So - did we "oppress" the Saudis when we pressured them to stop legalized slavery just a few decades ago? Did we oppress the Saudis by giving them the technology to become gazillionaires?

Did the British oppress the Indians when they told them they could no longer burn their widows alive next to their dead husbands?

Bigsby says

And why do you think that's the case? The meddling of the West this century and last has stoked exactly that.

Keep making excuses for them.

I guess we are to believe majority of Egyptians and Pakistanis think it's cool to murder apostates because of western meddling?

Has NOTHING to do with Islam - right?

socal2 says

Keep making excuses for them.

I guess we are to believe majority of Egyptians and Pakistanis think it's cool to murder apostates because of western meddling?

Has NOTHING to do with Islam - right?

Except I said that Western meddling had contributed to the rise in conservatism, which isn't the same as '...majority of Egyptians and Pakistanis think it's cool to murder apostates because of Western meddling. Has NOTHING...,' is it?

socal2 says

So - did we "oppress" the Saudis when we pressured them to stop legalized slavery just a few decades ago? Did we oppress the Saudis by giving them the technology to become gazillionaires?

Did the British oppress the Indians when they told them they could no longer burn their widows alive next to their dead husbands?

That is a ridiculous comment. I guess from that your forefathers didn't oppress the native Americans because your country later allowed them to build casinos.

Bigsby says

socal2 says

Keep making excuses for them.

I guess we are to believe majority of Egyptians and Pakistanis think it's cool to murder apostates because of western meddling?

Has NOTHING to do with Islam - right?

Except I said that Western meddling had contributed to the rise in conservatism, which isn't the same as '...majority of Egyptians and Pakistanis think it's cool to murder apostates because of Western meddling. Has NOTHING...,' is it?

Bigsby says

socal2 says

So - did we "oppress" the Saudis when we pressured them to stop legalized slavery just a few decades ago? Did we oppress the Saudis by giving them the technology to become gazillionaires?

Did the British oppress the Indians when they told them they could no longer burn their widows alive next to their dead husbands?

That is a ridiculous comment. I guess from that your forefathers didn't oppress the native Americans because your country later allowed them to build casinos.

Your stone fast arguments sympathizing with Sharia laws are disgraceful at best. Sharia laws are much too barbaric for humanity.

Strategist says

Your stone fast arguments sympathizing with Sharia laws are disgraceful at best. Sharia laws are much too barbaric for humanity.

You don't half post some cobblers. Where did I sympathize with Sharia law?

Bigsby says

Yes, Muslims joined a Muslim force. Remarkable. Why do you think these young people have been radicalized? What have they been exposed to over the last 15 years?

I don't believe Islam is particularly different to any religion. They can all be manipulated any way you like.

A religion is only as good as it's founders.
Mohammad who founded Islam was the most brutal barbarian ever to walk the earth. Murder, rape, slavery, and violence was his legacy. No wonder Islam carries on his legacy. As humans, we cannot and will not allow this 7th century barbarism to be practiced on our planet. As I said before, Islam is the breeding ground of terrorists and barbarism, and we will stop it one way or the other.
People like you who steadfastly stand up for this sick religion in the West are only contributing to the problem, should be ashamed of themselves.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

Your stone fast arguments sympathizing with Sharia laws are disgraceful at best. Sharia laws are much too barbaric for humanity.

You don't half post some cobblers. Where did I sympathize with Sharia law?

Oh stop it. You are an excellent debater, I grant you that. If your goal is to simply win an argument, I would not be able to compete with you. But you will never be able to prove that Islam is a brutal and barbaric religion.

Strategist says

But you will never be able to prove that Islam is a brutal and barbaric religion.

I thought that was what you were trying to prove.

Strategist says

Mohammad who founded Islam was the most brutal barbarian ever to walk the earth.

You are embarrassing yourself with comments like that.

Strategist says

People like you who steadfastly stand up for this sick religion in the West are only contributing to the problem, should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm not standing up for it. I'm an atheist. I have no fondness for any religion. I'm pointing out that we are the ones that have contributed substantially to the rising conservatism, and that your sweeping generalizations about Muslims as a whole are just that and entirely inaccurate for most of the adherents of that religion.

How many Muslims do you know, let alone are actually friends with?

Bigsby says

Strategist says

Mohammad who founded Islam was the most brutal barbarian ever to walk the earth.

You are embarrassing yourself with comments like that.

Both of you are right to some extent.

"Islam-Ex Muslim., Allah is a Gangster": http://youtu.be/Vl641IFO10g