patrick.net

Obviously there are people who like to gamble with their homes and buy pointless status symbols that depreciate instantly. That's why God invented Orange County.

Bigsby says

You're spending $30k more on hookers over 3 years than he is...

Here's my financial spiel ... you don't pay for hoes for 1 to 3 years up front. Ok, this isn't some season ticket pass to see the Patriots.

For a car, you either pay the whole thing upfront, or get a monthly payment program which is a loan.

Ok, now here's how a DRIP (dividend reinvestment) works. If you have $40K in tobacco, each quarter you get a piece of those earnings. If it's 4% per year you get some cash, like $400, every quarter. That $400 buys let's say another 10 shares. Your brokerage account can automate this for you. At year's end, with the compounding shares, that's $41.6K. In three years, $45K. In ten years, ~$60K and this assumes a completely sideways market, which is seldom the case. And it assumes no other additional funds.

Now, I have a lot more than $40K parked away, so splurging once in a while, is no big deal.

For this person, or someone like him, after paying $60K ... for one, the car will depreciate but at the same time, he'll still have to pay for maintenance, insurance, etc. In a very short time, the joyride thing (unless he's a racer) will wane whereas so far, I like meeting up with my friend for steak, for many years. The experience is more valuable than ownership.

And yes, boning a hottie, knowing that I don't need to buy her a ring or take her to Aruba, to gain her attention, is also of value. It makes my sex life very compartmentalized. It's the experience.

And that's the big difference. There's no real intrinsic value in that vehicle aside from the show off/status thing, which gets old.

Call it Crazy says

escape from the realities of his real life

Dude, you just need some spending money to do hoes. But yes, working in finance is a lame career though it puts food on the table.

Ceffer says

buy pointless status symbols that depreciate instantly

That's a big part of my point.

Rin says

Here's my financial spiel ... you don't pay for hoes for 1 to 3 years up front. Ok, this isn't some season ticket pass to see the Patriots.

For a car, you either pay the whole thing upfront, or get a monthly payment program which is a loan.

Ok, now here's how a DRIP (dividend reinvestment) works. If you have $40K in tobacco, each quarter you get a piece of those earnings. If it's 4% per year you get some cash, like $400, every quarter. That $400 buys let's say another 10 shares. Your brokerage account can automate this for you. At year's end, with the compounding shares, that's $41.6K. In three years, $45K. In ten years, ~$60K and this assumes a completely sideways market, which is seldom the case.

Now, I have a lot more than $40K parked away, so splurging once in a while, is no big deal.

He pays $55k for his car. You pay $25k. The difference is 30K. He keeps the car for say 6 years. During those 6 years, you spend nearly $60k on hookers. You can make all the comments about investments you like, but it's utterly irrelevant. If he buys the car, he's simply making a different choice about how to spend his money than you are. You aren't making more money over that period than he is. He's spending 30k more upfront on a car than you would. You are spending $60k more on hookers over the potential 6 year period that he keeps the car. How does that make your expenditure better than his? At the end of that 6 years, he's got a car to sell. You've just got medical bills to pay for your STDs.

Actually, my talk about investments is significant because for one, the quarterly cost of seeing hoes versus my portfolio accrual is shrinking. Actually, it's minimal right now. When this job is over, I won't have to work a day of my life again and can see hoes regularly and even buy a Porsche, if I really wanted.

The difference is that I know the difference between a status symbol and an experience. The escort is a beautiful woman in her 20s. Normally, I would have to spend much more money, taking such a gal out to high end places, just to keep her around. Instead, I've compartmentalized the entire experience into a short romp, on a road trip up north. Many guys in finance, date high maintenance women. That's not for me. I want to shag and get back to my routine.

This guy is not in my position because someday, he may run out of work. When that occurs, that annuity, which could help hold him over till social security, may come in handy. Plus, my car will retain more of its used value and so, that $25K gap is really closer to $15K, since I'd be selling the vehicle myself. Plus, he could buy a Civic from Hertz w/ added warranty for $14K and park those additional monies for a rainy day.

Rin says

The escort is a beautiful woman in her 20s. Normally, I would have to spend much more money, taking such a gal out to high end places, just to keep her around. Instead, I've compartmentalized the entire experience into a short romp, on a road trip up north. Many guys in finance, date high maintenance women. That's not for me. I want to shag and get back to my routine.

Also, I don't like pretending to be in love. That stuff ended 4 years ago, with a Canadian whack job girlfriend.

Live in Caligulan splendor. Buy M134's, lots of ammo, and yams.

Rin says

This guy is not in my position because someday, he may run out of work. When that occurs, that annuity, which could help hold him over till social security, may come in handy. Plus, my car will retain more of its used value and so, that $25K gap is really closer to $15K, since I'd be selling the vehicle myself. Plus, he could buy a Civic from Hertz w/ added warranty for $14K and park those additional monies for a rainy day.

You really are living in your own little dream world.

Bigsby says

Wow, a club of two. You and Strategist. Thank fuck I'm not invited.

Given the attention on my other thread, looks like Ceffer and others are also interested in this stuff.

You can take your Puritanical meanderings elsewhere.

Bigsby says

You really are living in your own little dream world.

That's right, there's no such thing as age discrimination.

Whatever a man earns in his prime, is what he'll earn for the rest of his life.

Say that to someone who's 55 and laid off from DuPont labs. Chances are, that guy will be working at Home Depot, for the rest of his days.

Rin says

Given the attention on my other thread, looks like Ceffer and others are also interested in this stuff.

You can take your Puritanical meanderings elsewhere.

What's puritanical about what I said? I said you aren't in a position to lambast someone for 'wasting' money on a car when you are spending $10k on hookers. Is that really so difficult to understand?

Rin says

That's right, there's no such thing as age discrimination.

Whatever a man earns in his prime, is what he'll earn for the rest of his life.

Say that to someone who's 55 and laid off from DuPont labs. Chances are, that guy will be working at Home Depot, for the rest of his days.

Do you have mental problems? What has that got to do with what I said? And aren't you supposed to be a busy investment banker? You don't half spend an inordinate amount of your work day on here.

Bigsby says

What's puritanical about what I said? I said you aren't in a position to lambast someone for 'wasting' money on a car when you are spending $10k on hookers. Is that really so difficult to understand?

I earn a ton of money and I invest it prudently. I will be fully financially independent when this job is done.

Most ppl do not have my circumstances. Many, if/when they lose their jobs, will suffer w/o a solid rainy day fund. So my steak/hoes/martial arts classes and other discretionary spending, which is based around quality of life experiences, pales compared to my rainy day fund.

You say $10K ... that $10K is spread over time. Do you not understand the value of time? Are you that dense? A car is an upfront cost, whether it's a cashier's check or a loan agreement but the entire thing is paid upfront. Then, if it's a loan, there are fixed monthly costs; you cannot decide not to pay. During the winter, I'd decided, thanks to the snow, not to drive to Canada. Don't you get the difference? I have much more control and flexibility in my life. In fact, due to the weather, I'd shaved a nice slice off that annual payout on hoes. You can't do that with a car loan agreement. But yet, during the winter, my dividends compounded. Now, I have even more money to spend on hoes, if I so chose.

Bigsby says

And aren't you supposed to be a busy investment banker? You don't half spend an inordinate amount of your work day on here.

Hello, do you know what an account manager is? It's a person who sits around, IMing clients and saying the same things to them. It's now a job of cutting/pasting the same presentations.

I use PatNet to keep myself from going nuts in this job. This is my relief valve.

Rin says

I earn a ton of money and I invest it prudently. I will be fully financially independent when this job is done.

So you keep saying. And you drive an Accord!

Rin says

Most ppl do not have my circumstances. Many, if/when they lose their jobs, will suffer w/o a solid rainy day fund. So my steak/hoes/martial arts classes and other discretionary spending, which is based around quality of life experiences, pales compared to my rainy day fund.

The original poster said he had $400k in cash...

Rin says

You say $10K ... that $10K is spread over time. Do you not understand the value of time? Are you that dense? A car is an upfront cost, whether it's a cashier's check or a loan agreement but the entire thing is paid upfront.

Duh. Your 10k is spread over a year. Wow. His potential car ownership is spread over a number of years. That's his expense. It doesn't make any difference that it's up front in regard to the comparison that is being made because a reasonable comparison is 30k up front vs your 60k over 6 years with nothing to show for it at the end of that period. How does that make your choice so much better than his?

Rin says

Then, if it's a loan, there are fixed monthly costs; you cannot decide not to pay. During the winter, I'd decided, thanks to the snow, not to drive to Canada. Don't you get the difference? I have much more control and flexibility in my life.

Er, he was talking about what he might do with his $400k CASH. What part of that refers to a loan? Clearly, you DON'T have 'much more control and flexibility in your life' because your scenario isn't the one that was outlined.
Seriously, you need to get your muddled reasoning in order. Aren't you supposed to be an investment banker?

Rin says

Hello, do you know what an account manager is? It's a person who sits around, IMing clients and saying the same things to them. It's now a job of cutting/pasting the same presentations.

So you say....

Bigsby says

Er, he was talking about what he might do with his $400k CASH. What part of that refers to a loan? Clearly, you DON'T have 'much more control and flexibility in your life' because your scenario isn't the one that was outlined.

Seriously, you need to get your muddled reasoning in order. Aren't you supposed to be an investment banker?

Yes, I know the situation. But I also mentioned the two ways which a car could be purchased. You apparently didn't get that. He could do the monthly payment, assuming that the other cash could be grown elsewhere. A lot of ppl do that. I didn't come up with this notion on my own.

Nonetheless, by doing so, the discretionary cash is locked away, every month, no flexibility there.

When the time comes for my Camry purchase, a sliver, yes, a sliver of my savings account will be put into a cashier's check to buy it. This doesn't change my circumstances.

Since I've already gave my annuity speech, I won't repeat myself. I've invested most of my earnings during the years I'd broken up with the Canadian, now almost 4 years ago.

Rin says

Yes, I know the situation. But I also mentioned the two ways which a car could be purchased. You apparently didn't get that. He could do the monthly payment, assuming that the other cash could be grown elsewhere. A lot of ppl do that. I didn't come up with this notion on my own.

You don't say. What has any of that got to do with it being a problem that he might want to buy a nicer car than you say you own?Rin says

When the time comes for my Camry purchase, a sliver, yes, a sliver of my savings account will be put into a cashier's check to buy it. This doesn't change my circumstances.

Since I've already gave my annuity speech, I won't repeat myself. I've invested most of my earnings during the years I'd broken up with the Canadian, now almost 4 years ago.

And there you go again. You're so special. A mere sliver indeed. Well done.

Bigsby says

And there you go again. You're so special. A mere sliver indeed. Well done.

Once you dump a whacked out girlfriend, it's a lot easier to focus on accruing one's wealth.

Rin says

Once you dump a whacked out girlfriend, it's a lot easier to focus on accruing one's wealth.

I wonder why I get the feeling she dumped you. Or perhaps that you never had a girlfriend in the first place...

Bigsby says

problem that he might want to buy a nicer car than you say you own

Once again, you're concerned about what other ppl think about. Personally, I don't care if others in trading, consider me to be some crusty New England bozo, for not buying a Lexus.

It's just that money is not being put to work, meaning providing life experiences and/or accruing wealth. Of course he's free to do whatever he wants, but he's not rich enough, to be able to take a hit during lean times.

Bigsby says

I wonder why I get the feeling she dumped you.

First I dumped her. Then we got back together (big mistake) and then she dished me. That's the last woman I'll ever date.

Rin says

It's just that money is not being put to work, meaning providing life experiences and/or accruing wealth. Of course he's free to do whatever he wants, but he's not rich enough, to be able to take a hit during lean times.

$400K in cash is not rich enough? My lord, what do you consider "rich enough" to take a hit during lean times?

Rin says

Once again, you're concerned about what other ppl think about. Personally, I don't care if others in trading, consider me to be some crusty New England bozo, for not buying a Lexus.

Eh? You've been complaining about him wanting to buy what you call a 'status' vehicle.

Rin says

It's just that money is not being put to work, meaning providing life experiences and/or accruing wealth. Of course he's free to do whatever he wants, but he's not rich enough, to be able to take a hit during lean times.

What a load of nonsense. You can accrue wealth AND buy things you want. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Notice how you claim to spend $10k on hookers and invest money. And WTF do you mean he's not rich enough to be able to take a hit during lean times? What planet do you live on? He said he's paid off 70% of a house worth $1.5m and has $400k in cash. I think that's more than enough to see a 2 salary couple through a little bit of a lean time, don't you? Yet here you are arguing the toss over him thinking about spending $35k more than you would on a car whilst you blow $10k on hookers. That's the fucking point, but of course, it will fly right over your head once again.

Rin says

First I dumped her. Then we got back together (big mistake) and then she dished me. That's the last woman I'll ever date.

You're either a complete bullshitter or you need to grow up. Or both.

tatupu70 says

$400K in cash is not rich enough? My lord, what do you consider "rich enough" to take a hit during lean times?

The kind of money an Accord driver stashes away...

Bigsby says

I think that's more than enough to see a 2 salary couple through a little bit of a lean time, don't you

I know of engineers, who after getting whacked by corporate R&D, had to find jobs at Home Depot and other such avenues. Nowadays, lean times are quite nasty esp for older workers. Why do you think I'm setting myself up to never work again?

$35K out of $400K is nearly 9-10 percent of one's cash portfolio. If all of that $400K were DRIP'ed, (10K shares x $40/share) it would be $595K in ten years. Using the same DRIP system, (9K shares x $40/share) is $535K, a difference of $60K. That's pretty much a 2 year rainy day fund. He can even re-locate to a new city/state and find work, without worrying, if the job market goes dry in his area.

Bigsby says

you need to grow up

Sorry, I'm done with dating.

Rin says

$35K out of $400K is nearly 9-10 percent of one's cash portfolio. If all of that $400K were DRIP'ed, (10K shares x $40/share) it would be $595K in ten years. Using the same DRIP system, (9K shares x $40/share) is $535K, a difference of $60K. That's pretty much a 2 year rainy day fund. He can even re-locate to a new city/state and find work, without worrying, if the job market goes dry in his area.

Which would be a relevant comment if he was proposing to buy a $400k car. As he isn't...

Rin says

Bigsby says

you need to grow up

Sorry, I'm done with dating.

Like I said...

Bigsby says

Rin says

Bigsby says

you need to grow up

Sorry, I'm done with dating.

Like I said...

We'll see, after your spouse takes you to the cleaners.

Rin says

We'll see, after your spouse takes you to the cleaners.

My wife makes about the same money as I do.

Rin says

During the winter, I'd decided, thanks to the snow, not to drive to Canada.

So instead of sitting on a heated leather seat in your car you decided to freeze your ass muddling through the slush on the streets and catching nasty bugs from fellow bus riders? Sounds weird for someone so hellbent on maintaining his quality of life.

It is beyond ridiculous for you to suggest that a guy with $400K in cash and 70% of a 1.5MM house paid off cannot afford to buy a $60K car. Seriously--get a grip.

tatupu70 says

$400K in cash is not rich enough? My lord, what do you consider "rich enough" to take a hit during lean times?

At least 3 Million.

Straw Man says

So instead of sitting on a heated leather seat in your car you decided to freeze your ass muddling through the slush on the streets and catching nasty bugs from fellow bus riders?

Last I'd checked, the heating in my car works fine. And I haven't taken a bus in years.

tatupu70 says

cannot afford to buy a $60K car. Seriously--get a grip.

He can do whatever he likes.

Right now, I can run down to the Porsche dealer and pick one up. I don't do it because I'm not interested in being observed by my old friends and neighbors as some showy guy. I like the low key lifestyle.

Don't you folks know the difference between buying experiences like workshops, travel, etc, versus objects? Most ppl's interest in those objects wane very quickly, unless your hobby is restoring classic cars or racing them. This is why for many, money doesn't buy them happiness because they don't use it, to actually enhance their life experiences.

Rin says

We'll see, after your spouse takes you to the cleaners.

Obligatory:

zzyzzx says

tatupu70 says

$400K in cash is not rich enough? My lord, what do you consider "rich enough" to take a hit during lean times?

At least 3 Million.

See ... zzyzzx knows what I'm talking about. He was a former electrical engineer, who'd seen his career get decimated and thus, has higher savings targets because once you're past your corporate America prime, you'll typically experience declining wages and job opportunities.

Rin says

He can do whatever he likes.

Right now, I can run down to the Porsche dealer and pick one up. I don't do it because I'm not interested in being observed by my old friends and neighbors as some showy guy. I like the low key lifestyle.

Don't you folks know the difference between buying experiences like workshops, travel, etc, versus objects? Most ppl's interest in those objects wane very quickly, unless your hobby is restoring classic cars or racing them. This is why for many, money doesn't buy them happiness because they don't use it, to actually enhance their life experiences.

Guess what--we're not talking about you. At some point before the conversation got derailed, we were talking about the OP. And he would like to have a nice car.

We all know the difference between buying experiences and buying objects, but even with that knowledge, most of us like to buy objects too.