patrick.net

tatupu70 says

lol. Dan--you realize that a billionaire is a subset of millionaires, right? Someone with 1000 millions is still a millionaire.

lol, your data doesn't generalize to billionaires.

tatupu70 says

The middle class has as much (or more) debt as savings so they will be OK.

yes, the 1970s was an immense gift to the middle class who had bought by 1974. The boomers were at most age 28 then, so not many had mortgages, alas, and of course revolving was miniscule then. So I guess the leading edge of the baby boom got discounted cars thanks to the 70s inflation.

But a $30,000 loan in 1970 was being repaid in 1/3 as valuable dollars by 1985 . . .

I'd rather keep the economy alive in the small hope that Americans come to their senses and make the necessary changes.

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I guess it depends on what your definition of 'the economy', is.

Whats so special about 'The Economy', that youre fighting so hard to save? The way i see it, when people refer to 'The Economy', they're referring to the complex system of bullshit and financial gimmicktry; is it really worth saving?

Dan8267 says

lol, your data doesn't generalize to billionaires.

That would be a more effective argument if you actually had some data or sources to support such a statement.

Here's one that doesn't support you:

money.cnn.com/.../billionaires-hoarding-cash.../index.html

"Each uber wealthy person boosted their cash holdings by an average of $60 million over the past year, according to the 2014 Billionaire Census published by Wealth-X and UBS (UBS)."

"The Wealth-X and UBS report shows that on average, $600 million, or 19%, of billionaires' assets is sitting in cash."

tatupu70 says

That would be a more effective argument if you actually had some data or sources to support such a statement.

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2007/06/12/how-the-rich-invest/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102196033

Will you shut up now, or do you need to have the last word?

Dan8267 says

Will you shut up now, or do you need to have the last word?

I'm fine with you getting the last word, but that source doesn't say what you think it says. Showing how the rich invest in mutual funds doesn't prove that they don't keep significant dollars in cash. Do you disagree with the source saying that 19% of billionaires assets are in cash? That's $190MM+ per billionaire.

For someone as well versed in logic as you, I'm surprised at your posts here.

errc says

Whats so special about 'The Economy', that youre fighting so hard to save? The way i see it, when people refer to 'The Economy', they're referring to the complex system of bullshit and financial gimmicktry; is it really worth saving?

Agreed--the financial gimmicks economy isn't worth saving. That would be the part that needs fixed. When I refer to the economy, I'm referring to the overall system where my labor is translated to money that can be exchanged for goods and services.

tatupu70 says

Do you disagree with the source saying that 19% of billionaires assets are in cash? That's $190MM+ per billionaire.

You clearly don't read the articles that you quickly Google to support your suppositions. From your article,

According to research from American Express Publishing and Harrison Group, the savings rate of the wealthiest 1 percent soared to 37 percent in the second quarter.

The article you referenced is making the case that in 2013, when the article was written, some of the 1% were drastically increasing their cash reserves. The article speculates that the reason for this is that those individuals were profit-taking after recent stock market rallies and perhaps preparing for a stock plunge and buying opportunity. This move to liquidity was covered on many news outlets including NPR in 2013-2014. Once in a while big players make big moves into and out of markets including real estate, stocks, gold, and cash.

You really need to adjust your Google searches so that you aren't causing confirmation bias in your results.

Here are two articles that explain why currency debasement -- they refer to it as inflation -- hurts the poor more than the rich.
Why Inflation Affects the Poor More Than the Rich
Inflation May Hit the Poor Hardest

And then there's the common sense argument. The bankers are the ones making money off of currency debasement. I allows them to get interest on money they just printed out of thin air -- well, that the Fed printed out of thin air and lent to them at a deep discount like 0.25%. The bankers charge our government and private citizens way more than the 0.25% interest they owe to the Fed, so the bankers end up making huge profits using money they didn't earn and having little skin in the game. If I could borrow $1 trillion from the Fed at 0.25% interest and loan it out to the government at 3.75% interest, I'd never work again. But the bottom line is that accounting ticks are zero-sum games; the don't increase the economic pie, rather, they just redistribute it

Dan8267 says

You clearly don't read the articles that you quickly Google to support your suppositions. From your article,

According to research from American Express Publishing and Harrison Group, the savings rate of the wealthiest 1 percent soared to 37 percent in the second quarter.

The article you referenced is making the case that in 2013, when the article was written, some of the 1% were drastically increasing their cash reserves

I read that. That's why didn't make a big point about the 37% number. Whether it's 10%, 19%, or 37%-it's a HUGE number and dwarfs the amount of cash that the middle class is saving. To claim that the rich don't have cash is just ridiculous--I'm shocked that you continue to make such a claim. Rich have diversified portfolios that will always include a fair percentage of cash. And a fair percentage of a LOT of money is a LOT of cash.

The first of those articles is poorly written and makes the same incorrect assumptions that others on here have made--primarilly that real wages increase less in inflationary times.

The second article is much more interesting--did you read it though? Its point is that, right now, is an unusual time because the inflation rate on the typical basket of goods for poor people seems to be increasing more than the basket for a typical rich person. It's speaking only to a very unique situation that may be occurring now (last 2 years) and is not generalizing that inflation affects poor people harder than rich.

Dan8267 says

The bankers are the ones making money off of currency debasement

Bankers make money regardless of what the currency does. They pay less in savings than they charge for loans.

Dan8267 says

I allows them to get interest on money they just printed out of thin air -- well, that the Fed printed out of thin air and lent to them at a deep discount like 0.25%.

The Federal Reserve doesn't loan money to banks. Almost NEVER. It's a sign of weakness so banks very, very rarely ever take a loan from the Fed.