patrick.net

socal2 says

Some people around here seem to think that all Christians read the Bible as literal as Muslims or something. Newsflash, the Old and New Testament were written around events thousands of years ago when a whole lot of shit that we think is crazy was the norm in both religious and secular society.

I really like what you said here. That is how societies the world over was at that time. You must admit, if the Bible reflects a bygone era, it must have limited use in today's world. It also requires a lot of reinterpretation, with some not willing to do so. And there is our problem. Too many Muslims don't reinterpret their Koran, which is why we have this problem on our hands.

socal2 says

Because American Christians were the driving force behind the Abolitionist movement.

That may have been so, but Christians can't take credit for ending slavery in America, if they instigated it in the first place.

Strategist says

I really like what you said here. That is how societies the world over was at that time. You must admit, if the Bible reflects a bygone era, it must have limited use in today's world.

Some things are timeless. Much of ancient Greek Classical philosophy from Aristotle and Plato holds up today. Same with the 10 Commandments and Jesus' Golden Rule.

Strategist says

That may have been so, but Christians can't take credit for ending slavery in America, if they instigated it in the first place.

That's just dumb. Christianity didn't create or instigate slavery. Us apes were practicing slavery long before Abraham, Moses or Jesus were around. Virtually every society on the planet regardless of their religious or lack of religious beliefs had slavery. The ancient Greeks had slaves. The Ancient Romans and Egyptians had slaves. The Mayans and Aztecs had slaves. The Native American Indians had slaves.

But it was largely Christian groups and Christian dominated countries that were FIRST to abolish slavery around the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

Strategist says

That may have been so, but Christians can't take credit for ending slavery in America, if they instigated it in the first place.

Jesus Strategist, you made a good point.

socal2 says

But it was largely Christian groups and Christian dominated countries that were FIRST to abolish slavery around the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

They introduced it all over their colonies. What killed it wasn't Christianity, but the fallout from the Enlightenment, Christianity's most hated development.

The most Christian states, the least Pluralistic states (ie One Denomination Christian States), and the ones that felt the Enlightenment was a Satanic-Jesuit-Jewish-Masonic Plot were the last to repeal it, see Spain and Portugal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_reduction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Brazil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_the_Society_of_Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Latin_America

The history of the Counter-Enlightenment is very interesting. For all the bullshit claims that Fascism descends from Liberalism, it is much more aligned to the Counter-Enlightenment's love of Medievalism. The Counter-Enlightenment of Throne and Altar continues to spew bullshit to this day. Bgamall is totally in hoc to it's ideology.

socal2 says

Strategist says

That may have been so, but Christians can't take credit for ending slavery in America, if they instigated it in the first place.

That's just dumb. Christianity didn't create or instigate slavery. Us apes were practicing slavery long before Abraham, Moses or Jesus were around. Virtually every society on the planet regardless of their religious or lack of religious beliefs had slavery. The ancient Greeks had slaves. The Ancient Romans and Egyptians had slaves. The Mayans and Aztecs had slaves. The Native American Indians had slaves.

But it was largely Christian groups and Christian dominated countries that were FIRST to abolish slavery around the world.

No no no no no.
The God of the Bible says you should treat slaves kindly.
Strategist, the hard core atheist going to hell says, you shall have no slaves.
Who do you agree with Socal2? Who has the superior morals here? The Atheist, or the God?
I bet you will never be able to give an honest answer to this question.

thunderlips11 says

Jesus Strategist, you made a good point.

I'm an atheist. What did you expect? :) :)

This is a great debate. You Boyz keep at it. I'm going to make a fried spam sandwich...

SoftShell says

This is a great debate. You Boyz keep at it. I'm going to make a fried spam sandwich...

What, don't you have a couple of hours to go, or is that Socal?

SoftShell says

This is a great debate. You Boyz keep at it. I'm going to make a fried spam sandwich...

Damn you. Now you got me hungry for a spam samich.

"I have not come to bring peace, but with a sword... to set father against son, brother against brother, etc. etc." - Jesus, Paraphrased.

Yet he is billed as either "Love" and/or the "Prince of Peace" in the same document.

thunderlips11 says

Paraphrased.

The quotation you are looking for is:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household."

In fairness, the context seems probably to imply a metaphorical sword, cleaving family relationships but not bodies.

If Jesus lived as an actual person (which Paul seems not to have believed), then Mark 3:21 describes him as what we would call schizophrenic: "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself." Back in those days, religious people prone to believe in unseen spirits believed that the symptoms of schizophrenia resulted from demons, i.e. demonic possession. That made sense to them because schizophrenia manifests usually around age 20, when around 1% of the population start hearing voices and suffering delusions of grandeur and persecution. The character Legion ("for we are many") seems clearly to be suffering from schizophrenia. Schizophrenics can be otherwise brilliant (e.g. John Nash), somewhat like the autistic idiot savant character in Rain Man had extraordinary counting ability. Most people recognize that schizophrenics are clearly delusional, but the early Christians seem to have made a different choice: to present schizophrenic delusions as fact. That turned out to be much more lucrative than any other approach (until PhRMA came along and turned anti-psychotic drugs into a booming industry, including ads on TV for suckers who had been fooled into buying toxic SSRI placebos; when the SSRIs don't work, it means the patient must be psychotic and need aripiprazole). Monetizing mental illness goes back a long way, from faith healers casting out demons to the current Vatican priests selling exorcisms and Obamneycare mandating prepayment for toxic and disproved pills.