patrick.net

joshuatrio says

Shocking isn't it?

Yeah, your just now beginning to get what the Baltimore - DC area has had for decades.

zzyzzx says

I lived in Atlanta for 20 years, and IMO, it's a pretty fucking boring place to live.

I'm not one to dislike comments, and I didn't dislike that comment, but having lived in Baltimore for 3 months in the past 2 years and Atlanta for over the past 2 years, I would rank Atlanta far higher in terms of Arts and dining and quality open space. Traffic is insufferable in both places, but slightly better in Baltimore since it is much smaller.

5.5 million on roads designed for 1.8 million people in Atlanta.

As I once mentioned, the authentic Napolitano style pizza in Atlanta (Varuni Napoli, Antico) puts the best in NYC (Artichoke) to shame. Best Pizza in NYC is Giove's in Staten Island, where the chef beat bobby flay twice on his show.

Far more James Beard Foundation regarded chefs in Atlanta than Baltimore. Not even close

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/dining-news/breaking-atlantas-james-beard-award-nominees-2015/

I'm checking out Book of Mormon next month at the Legendary Fox theater

Atlanta is much more ethnically diverse than Baltimore also.

Strategist says

Would you have moved if you had purchased a home in 2012 or thereabouts? Because your numbers would have been different.

Good question. I was thinking about that today as I had to come out to LA for the week, and am in the state today.

Ultimately, I would still want to leave.

While I immediately missed the clear blue sky and the mountains, I didn't miss all the trash on the sides of the roads, the large homeless population walking around with nothing to do, the cost of living, the razor wire on road sign poles (to prevent graffiti), and the wealth disparity - as in a high dollar apartment complex next to the slums, and the wealthier ignoring the problems immediately surrounding them.

In a few years, California is going to resemble central america, with gated communities in the middle of slums.

MMR says

Where are they selling mcmansions in the Greater Atlanta Area for 75/sqft? Total BS

Look in Kennesaw and Marietta. 3700 sq ft for 280k. It's dirt cheap in the burbs. Not bs. Search mls yourself.

The Strategist sounds like he's coming from the perspective of The Asian Contagion in the Bay Area.
From where they come, the horribly overcrowded and overexpensive (and Cool And Hip) Bay Area is the Wide Open Prairie, at Bargain Prices.
They cannot fathom there's a higher quality of life in other parts of the US, and cannot fathom that there's other stuff of Value besides the Money, The Equity, the API, etc.

B.A.C.A.H. says

The Strategist sounds like he's coming from the perspective of The Asian Contagion in the Bay Area.

From where they come, the horribly overcrowded and overexpensive (and Cool And Hip) Bay Area is the Wide Open Prairie, at Bargain Prices.

They cannot fathom there's a higher quality of life in other parts of the US, and cannot fathom that there's other stuff of Value besides the Money, The Equity, the API, etc.

you know you're a californian when... this makes sense.

What did you accomplish here in California? What is your legacy?

joshuatrio says

Look in Kennesaw and Marietta. 3700 sq ft for 280k. It's dirt cheap in the burbs. Not bs. Search mls yourself.

Which school district in Marietta? Walton or wheeler, other schools there are not good....those will be closer 150-200/sq. ft. If it's under 100/sf it's prob going to need significant work, penny wise, pound foolish unless you are handy IMO.

Average price per square foot for Marietta GA was $117, an increase of 6.4% compared to the same period last year.

As I said in the second part of the post, you would be commuting from an hour out most days unless commuting off-peak, which Kennesaw certainly is. Also schools in Kennesaw are crap as far as I can tell. Also shit ton of rednecks in parts of Marietta and more so the further north you go.

Go to Marietta diner sometime and tell me what you see if you don't believe me or J Christopher in Kennesaw when it's kind of busy.

Price per sq ft avg in Kennesaw (1hr north of downtown Atlanta, longer if there is an accident): The average home price in Kennesaw is $259,900, which is 33.3% higher than the average sold price in Kennesaw ($195,000) . The average home price per square foot in Kennesaw is $98 and about 4% of all homes in Kennesaw sold in the last 6 months.

http://www.realtor.com/local/Kennesaw_GA/home-prices

If you did the same thing from an hour out of the Bay Area you would find more reasonable prices although definitely not 75/sq ft

If you are commuting from San bernardino county or riverside county you could find houses for about 125/sq ft

To your point, there is value to be had but for someone who has managed to survive living in California and can come to the Atlanta area without a drop off in income, Kennesaw is a step down in demographics/schools compared to looking inside the perimeter or better suburban neighborhoods if you have kids. If you are single without kids, pretty much anyplace outside the perimeter is just big box stores and typical suburbia.

zzyzzx says

Laughable

When was the last time you came to Atlanta? I went to school her 20 years ago as an undergrad at emory and it is far different today.

My townhome had gone up to 400K and dropped all the way to 180 and I bought at 234k....which was 86/sq ft. Today the units are selling at 135/sq ft. The average for my zip is 158 and is close to the cdc emory etc.

Most of the new construction town homes are going for 200/sq ft and averaging 450-500k asking price.

Downtown Decatur , a place that was a ghetto when you lived here 20 yrs ago is a pretty well developed and gentrifying area today. Tons of restaurants and lot of high density housing and fixer uppers running 1 million dollars for 3000 sq ft homes. Some of the town homes in downtown Decatur have a 700k asking price

Downtown Decatur is a combination of hipsters/artists, college students and families with young children moving for the high quality public schools, some of the most highly ranked in the metro Atlanta area.

Lot of properties in Downtown Decatur are commanding 300/sq ft. I'm skeptical as to the level of demand driving these prices but they are going up for the foreseeable future. I suspect another bust cycle in the near future but people are going to continue to move to Atlanta a lot more than Chicago, Boston or pretty much any city in the northeast other than NYC.

Atlanta was about 3 million in the early 90s when the growth started and today it is almost double that.

zzyzzx says

At least you didn't move to Raleigh, that place is much worse and probably more expensive than Atlanta. I've lived there too.

When was the last time you were in Raleigh?

MMR says

Downtown Decatur , a place that was a ghetto when you lived here 20 yrs ago is a pretty well developed and gentrifying area today. Tons of restaurants and lot of high density housing and fixer uppers running 1 million dollars for 3000 sq ft homes. Some of the town homes in downtown Decatur have a 700k asking price

That is almost bay area pricing?

ja says

When was the last time you were in Raleigh?

Around 1994. And my biggest complaint was that it was more expensive to live there than Baltimore (or Atlanta or Charlotte) but it was a much smaller metro area. IBM had moved a bunch of people there right before I got there, and that made the rents higher than they otherwise would have been, but even stuff in the stores was more expensive too. That and the apartment I had was uninsulated, so it totally sucked, despite being expensive. That and the place is pretty fucking boring.

Lots of constzzyzzx says

Around 1994. And my biggest complaint was that it was more expensive to live there than Baltimore (or Atlanta or Charlotte) but it was a much smaller metro area. IBM had moved a bunch of people there right before I got there, and that made the rents higher than they otherwise would have been, but even stuff in the stores was more expensive too. That and the apartment I had was uninsulated, so it totally sucked, despite being expensive. That and the place is pretty fucking boring.

Lots of constructions since then.
If you had such a bad apartment perhaps you went to the getho area. Lots of types of housing to choose from. You can check pice/sqfeet today. It's a bargain if you look at most America today and people from CA or Washington are looking forward to move in.
Perhaps you don't like the outdoors, but with 3 major universities, a tech/pharmaceutical campus, lots of internationals, one of the highest PhD concentrations of the country, you just have to look harder if you want entertainment. If you want to be full suburban, it's your option.

You can get a burguer for $9-$10. Is it cheaper in Atlanta?

-J

MMR says

If you did the same thing from an hour out of the Bay Area you would find more reasonable prices although definitely not 75/sq ft

I don't think you get it. The large majority of public schools in CA are garbage. We were already sending our kids to private, so if we do that in GA, no biggie. An expense we are prepared for. A house with good schools in CA will fetch $600-800k usually. You can get east Cobb schools and a decent home for $250k.

We can go back and forth, but your money goes a lot further out here and my commute isn't any longer because I was already dealing with traffic in CA.

Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges. They are nothing alike and one is 2-3x the cost for less amenities.

Joshua, I think you meant comparing apples to rotten oranges.

ja says

If you had such a bad apartment perhaps you went to the getho area.

Not really, it was 50% more expensive than Baltimore. And it's not like you have any way of knowing in advance if a rental unit is properly insulated. It's not like the building was particularly old. It even let in too much humidity which damaged some of my personal belongings (and made it difficult to add gas to my car once).

B.A.C.A.H. says

The Strategist sounds like he's coming from the perspective of The Asian Contagion in the Bay Area.

From where they come, the horribly overcrowded and overexpensive (and Cool And Hip) Bay Area is the Wide Open Prairie, at Bargain Prices.

They cannot fathom there's a higher quality of life in other parts of the US, and cannot fathom that there's other stuff of Value besides the Money, The Equity, the API, etc.

Hello B.A.C.
I look at the BA and California from a different point of view. The BA is actually the cheapest place to purchase a home in all of America. Where can you get 6%+ appreciation, at a cost of 4% for the loan. You are actually getting paid to live there. :)

Yep.
Told'ya. It's all about The Money, The Equity, (and maybe The Standardized Test Scores in your neighborhood School, fancy German Sedan). At Bargain Prices!
You think the rest of the USA has more to offer in Quality of Life? You Stupid Podunk Haolie Devils!

Strategist says

I look at the BA and California from a different point of view. The BA is actually the cheapest place to purchase a home in all of America. Where can you get 6%+ appreciation, at a cost of 4% for the loan. You are actually getting paid to live there. :)

You get the 6% appreciation maybe for a 10 year max boom cycle (if you're lucky), but the mortgage at 4% interest is usually 30 years. The time to get out is near. Take a look how fast prices and rents crashed in 2008, there wasn't much time to react. Watch the venture money, once it starts drying up get the hell out of dodge. The cracks are already visible.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Yep.

Told'ya. It's all about The Money, The Equity, (and maybe The Standardized Test Scores in your neighborhood School, fancy German Sedan). At Bargain Prices!

You think the rest of the USA has more to offer in Quality of Life? You Stupid Podunk Haolie Devils!

California, especially So. California has the best quality of life. It's December and I can hike with just a T-shirt. And getting paid 6% appreciation at the same time. If that makes me stupid, I'm glad to be stupid.
And you ought to be ashamed of being a racist. You will never amount to anything in your life with that bitter attitude.

mell says

Strategist says

I look at the BA and California from a different point of view. The BA is actually the cheapest place to purchase a home in all of America. Where can you get 6%+ appreciation, at a cost of 4% for the loan. You are actually getting paid to live there. :)

You get the 6% appreciation maybe for a 10 year max boom cycle (if you're lucky), but the mortgage at 4% interest is usually 30 years. The time to get out is near. Take a look how fast prices and rents crashed in 2008, there wasn't much time to react. Watch the venture money, once it starts drying up get the hell out of dodge. The cracks are already visible.

Honestly, all I see is a very bright future in the next 20 years. We will have:
A long period of growth.
Energy costs, especially with solar will drop like a rock.
New inventions will make life better for all.
Our living standards will jump.

Sticks and stones!
You'd be surprised. There's a whole lotta non-white Californian Americans, including maybe even me, who aren't impressed when someone Pulls The Race Card.
It ain't about race, pal. There's Americans of all Colors and all Stripes, including ethnic Asians, getting priced out and pushed out by the tsunami in recent years.
It's not race.
It's culture. And it's a
Subset of Culture, "The Elites".

B.A.C.A.H. says

Sticks and stones!

You'd be surprised. There's a whole lotta non-white Californian Americans, including maybe even me, who aren't impressed when someone Pulls The Race Card.

It ain't about race, pal. There's Americans of all Colors and all Stripes, including ethnic Asians, getting priced out and pushed out by the tsunami in recent years.

It's not race.

It's culture. And it's a

Subset of Culture, "The Elites".

Then what was the point of making silly racist remarks? If you are getting priced out, move to where you said the quality of life was better.

You sound more confident and lucid joshuatrio, have you been working out?

Something different about you...

joshuatrio says

MMR says

If you did the same thing from an hour out of the Bay Area you would find more reasonable prices although definitely not 75/sq ft

I don't think you get it. The large majority of public schools in CA are garbage. We were already sending our kids to private, so if we do that in GA, no biggie. An expense we are prepared for. A house with good schools in CA will fetch $600-800k usually. You can get east Cobb schools and a decent home for $250k.

We can go back and forth, but your money goes a lot further out here and my commute isn't any longer because I was already dealing with traffic in CA.

Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges. They are nothing alike and one is 2-3x the cost for less amenities.

Congratulations on your move. If what you have isn't working for you, then you have to find something that does and I'm happy for you that you found it.

bdrasin,
Your remark.... That's the difference, you're not some Smarty-Pants who wants to Prove Joshua Wrong for his Balanced Perspective on deciding What's Best for His Family.
One thing's for sure: They won't be Pressure Washing the flesh of Joshua's kids from the Caltrain rails.

B.A.C.A.H. says

One thing's for sure: They won't be Pressure Washing the flesh of Joshua's kids from the Caltrain rails.

Ha ha ha. You are just as funny as you are crazy. The best thing that ever happened to you was to be born in America. If you were a Saudi, you would have been a suicide bomber.

Yep, Keeping Face and Getting In The Last Word, part of the Recently New Reality in the Coveted Bay Area!

zzyzzx says

Not really, it was 50% more expensive than Baltimore. And it's not like you have any way of knowing in advance if a rental unit is properly insulated. It's not like the building was particularly old. It even let in too much humidity which damaged some of my personal belongings (and made it difficult to add gas to my car once).

Sounds to me you were unlucky

Today there is lots of people who move thinking on the (relatively) low price or housing. It's an oasis in the middle of redneck country. Still lots of land to build
https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-raleigh-rent-trends/
https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-baltimore-rent-trends/

joshuatrio says

And damn it feels good to finally get out of that state after 8 years

I left in 2019 and made it to somewhere near water (but not too close) in central Florida. I always remembered this post. I wish I had made it here sooner. Its like heaven on earth for my family and I compared to California.
As you said - gas is cheaper, tons of food options (getting surprisingly good), job is remote, gun laws are not perfect but way better than California, friendly people, no income taxes and I've been here a while and its a decent place to set up shop. Traffic is a fraction of what I was used to. If I had made it here in 2015 instead of buying in 2018 I would probably have 3 houses instead of one. Now my house is paid off and kept the same job I had in California.

Metro-CA can be pretty awesome if (and only if) your household income is at minimum in the ballpark of $400k and/or you are grandfathered in with real estate.

Otherwise, no, I would leave.

Spent my days with a woman unkind
Smoked my stuff and drank all my wine
Made up my mind to make a new start
Going to California with an aching in my heart
Someone told me there's a girl out there
With love in her eyes and flowers in her hair

Took my chances on a big jet plane
Never let 'em tell ya that they're all the same

Oh, the sea was red and the sky was grey
I wonder how tomorrow could ever follow today

The mountains and the canyons start to tremble and shake
The children of the sun begin to awake
Watch out

It seems that the wrath of the gods got a punch on the nose
And it's startin' to flow, I think I might be sinkin'

Throw me a line, if I reach it in time
I'll meet you up there, where the path runs straight and high

To find a queen without a king
They say she plays guitar and cries and sings, la-la-la
Ride a white mare in the footsteps of dawn
Tryin' to find a woman who's never, never, never been born

Standin' on a hill in the mountain of dreams
Tellin' myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems

I'm out this week!

just_passing_through says

I'm out this week!

Congrats man. Hope you’ll like your new place. Both sides of our family are here so I don’t see us moving anywhere. It is what it is. Make the best of it here.

just_passing_through says

I'm out this week!

To?

I left CA for TN in late June. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAPPY!

BayArea says

To?

SA, Tejas

joshuatrio says

I don't think you get it. The large majority of public schools in CA are garbage. We were already sending our kids to private, so if we do that in GA, no biggie.

Yes, I could not believe I saw the US News rankings for public schools K-12 and California is ranked near bottom at 40 and Florida is ranked 16.

When did California become that much of a sh*thole because I recall years ago when California was praised for having the best K-12 public school system.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

.

The public schools in CA are great… if and only if you live in a neighborhood where the median home price is around $2M or greater.

Read my post above about needing an absolute minimum of $400k household income to start to live well in CA. Yes, I said start to.

Trying to make it in metro CA on $300k, $200k, or $100k is insane. I would leave instantly

BayArea says

The public schools in CA are great

California has been ranked near bottom for several years as far as public K-12.

All of what you wrote does not change that California is ranked near the bottom with New Mexico and Mississippi.

,

You completely took what I said out of context, why?