patrick.net

rando says

Those things are not in the same categories and certainly not all applicable to a blog.

They are all restrictions on speech though, with the inherent consequence that speech is never entirely "free."

Also, I have not used the word "incivility," which I hardly even care about anyway. I was thinking in terms of particular users, e.g. TOB. You have banned certain Users, based on your own decision. When a Nazi says he wants you dead, and your family and readers too, that's a good reason to ban him. Also, his alter ego rootvg, and maybe their "friend" Fortwhine. Online as in life, you choose whom you want to associate with. If you want to tolerate incivility, that's up to you, but promoting self-declared Nazis and obvious racists and homophobes comes at a cost. They have already other sites for their stupidity, so the question is whether you want to add your name to their list.

curious2 says

They are all restrictions on speech though, with the inherent consequence that speech is never entirely "free."

Yes, we actually agree more than we think. Remember I do have 5 forbidden categories of speech:

personal threats or incitement to violence
child porn
spam
copyright violations (upon notice)
personally identifying information

curious2 says

When a Nazi says he wants you dead, and your family and readers too, that's a good reason to ban him.

Here's his post: /I+hope+you+all+die

He did not actually threaten anyone, or incite anyone to violence.

I think it's super-important not to ban Nazis and homophobes from speaking, because those terms and many others are routinely used to shut down legitimate debate by the guardians of political correctness ( our very own zampolit ).

rando says

those terms and many others are routinely used to shut down legitimate debate by the guardians of political correctness

You have a point there, and I have witnessed the sometimes debilitating effects. That's why I don't focus on indivual comments or posts. I look at the pattern, and what inferences the pattern supports. TOB is a Nazi, supports Hitler and calls him "a genius," and advocates civil war, as does his alter ego rootvg, who bragged his house was "well fortified" and looked forward to bringing a concealed weapon to San Francisco. The fact he says openly he hopes we all die is only one more data point confirming that pattern. Arguing with such people is a waste of time. The world can always crank out morons faster than you can type. The question is, do you want to spend your life promoting them?

Like creationists pushing "intelligent design," Nazis look for ways to wedge their way into respectability. We've seen a few attempts here already, e.g. TWP, and sadly they seem to fool initially some software engineers, who read literally but don't always recognize the intent behind the words.

curious2 says

The question is, do you want to spend your life promoting them?

I don't see the site as promoting them, but merely as not censoring them.

curious2 says

TOB is a Nazi, supports Hitler and calls him "a genius," and advocates civil war, as does his alter ego rootvg

I can't see any evidence on the server side that those two are the same person. They use different IP addresses at least.

curious2 says

Arguing with such people is a waste of time.

OK, so don't argue with him. Put him on ignore. But don't ask me to prevent other people from hearing what he has to say, no matter how odious.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.

rando says

But don't ask me to prevent other people from hearing what he has to say, no matter how odious.

Fair enough, but I think his vandalism of your home page and your Wikipedia article is a principal reason why the latter got deleted. Wikipedia speedily deletes vandals, with good reason. You can choose to give them a platform if you want, but you shouldn't expect everyone to have the same priorities.