patrick.net

Maybe they should call them MacBook cons instead of pros.

I had only Linux laptops for about 20 years, and finally gave up and bought a MacBook Air because my wife loves hers so much and I was sick of configuring Linux.

The Air really is great, but I was super-annoyed at first that there is no ethernet jack, only wifi. And no user-replaceable disk or battery. Nonetheless, it has worked out well for the last year.

Can't quite tell if Apple has a bright future or not.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Glad I kept up the maintenance on the old 17 inch.

That's just begging for some snarky comment...

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

Glad I kept up the maintenance on the old 17 inch.

www.opT_JGssUVk

rando says

That's just begging for some snarky comment...

Darn, you beat me...

jazz music says

The best hp laptop still uses 6th generation computers so I don't see your point.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/hp-upgrades-spectre-x360-and-envy-13-laptops-with-kaby-lake-and-that-s-not-all

they look good but prices are too high for 13" with touch bar.

Don't say you appleFanzBoyz weren't warned about closed communist systems...

OK hope you enjoy overheat graphic card/CPU, stuck/broken keyboard, exploding battery, cheap plastic, crashes, viruses and a whole bunch of other awesome features the other brands can offer...

Heraclitusstudent says

4 unusable ports, 0 usable ones. I say "unusable" because after all 99.99% of the hardware you either own or can buy can't use these ports.

-- Furthermore this may never change. After all no one switched to thunderbolt just because Apple did.

-- there is a fine line between moving forward and being unusable. This is not even close.

-- Even Apple own iphone can't connect to these macs

-- in fact, if you bought an iphone 7, you can't even use the headphones on this mac.

Other than display, what else do you connect to the MBP?
To connect iPhone to Mac, just use an USB-C to lightning instead of USB to lightning cable.
EarPods? You use that for Mac?

Heraclitusstudent says

azz music says

The best hp laptop still uses 6th generation computers so I don't see your point.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/hp-upgrades-spectre-x360-and-envy-13-laptops-with-kaby-lake-and-that-s-not-all

Those are the lower power versions of Kaby Lake, not the kind that would be used in a Macbook Pro - they come out early next year. Still very expensive laptops - rather inflated price points - 8GB RAM and 256GB storage are pretty laughable pro specs in this day and age, especially given the price.

rando says

I had only Linux laptops for about 20 years, and finally gave up and bought a MacBook Air because my wife loves hers so much and I was sick of configuring Linux.

The Air really is great, but I was super-annoyed at first that there is no ethernet jack, only wifi. And no user-replaceable disk or battery. Nonetheless, it has worked out well for the last year.

Can't quite tell if Apple has a bright future or not.

Maximising profit at the cost of innovation - not a good thing in the tech world long-term. They've got a helluva lot of cash though.

I've been an apple fan forever, but I knew they were done innovating when the iPad was released followed by non-touch screen laptops. In other words, while Jobs was still alive and pulling the strings.

They will continue making money, perhaps forever, but unless they acquire some ground breaking new technology from fresh minds, I see nothing but predictable moves from here on out.

What I personally want to see is an operating system with super efficiency, one twentieth the features most people never use, one tenth the memory footprint (both in download size AND runtime memory), and heavy innovation in procedural user configurations rather than endless app overlap and functionality bloat.

"The new OS for 2020 and beyond! Now with fewer apps, fewer controls and fewer functions than ever before! Why we've lost so much weight you'll think we're olympians! A new OS built on efficient multi-core processing procedures rather than dozens and dozens of independent apps with 90 percent of each app functionality being redundant!"

"Everyone knows that despite incremental improvements in networking speeds, that bandwidth is still the gigantic choke point with modern computing. Most of the time your computer is only using 30 percent or less of its processing power, while the download and memory footprint gets bigger and bigger and bigger!

Alas...only a dream.

I know it's apples and oranges so to speak, but I remember back when Macwrite, MacPaint, MacDraw AND the entire OS fit on one 800k floppy disk. Now that is efficiency.

They could absolutely create an efficient procedural, object-oriented OS that would be meaner, leaner, and more user-empowering than anything we've ever seen. The very same OS could control the mobile's AND PC's.

Do they know this? Yes. Is it inevitable? Yes. Who will be the first to do it? Anyone but the new Big Brother...Apple Computer. Stubborn was the perfect word.

Freedom always comes at a price...

Mark D says

OK hope you enjoy overheat graphic card/CPU, stuck/broken keyboard, exploding battery, cheap plastic, crashes, viruses and a whole bunch of other awesome features the other brands can offer...

Rashomon says

Those are the lower power versions of Kaby Lake, not the kind that would be used in a Macbook Pro

No, they aren't. They are dual cores appropriate for the 13''. So Apple could at least have the 13 inches on kaby lake.
Besides is what they wanted was to update to skylake, they could have done it in March, and waited 2017 to release Kaby Lake.
The fact that they are not tells you they are deliberately shipping older processors to save a few bucks - and to accelerate the obsolescence of their products.

Rashomon says

8GB RAM and 256GB storage are pretty laughable pro specs in this day and age, especially given the price.

Exactly, and it's $200 up for 8 extra GB.

They also saved maybe $10 bucks on laser cutting the logo.

Under Cook, it's a company sitting on hundreds of billions in cash but saving pennies at the detriment of the users.

hanera says

Other than display, what else do you connect to the MBP?

- a camera,
- numerous mobile drives,
- usb keys,
- a GPS sport watch
- a TV
- an iPhone

Heraclitusstudent says

No, they aren't. They are dual cores appropriate for the 13''. So Apple could at least have the 13 inches on kaby lake.

You maybe could make that argument for the 13", but you definitely couldn't for the 15", and it wouldn't look good having a more modern processor in the lower priced product even if it was less powerful than the quad-core Skylake in the 15".

Heraclitusstudent says

Besides is what they wanted was to update to skylake, they could have done it in March, and waited 2017 to release Kaby Lake.

The fact that they are not tells you they are deliberately shipping older processors to save a few bucks - and to accelerate the obsolescence of their products.

No, it doesn't. It tells me they are waiting for a product that can go into the 15" before they upgrade both sizes to the next generation.

Rashomon says

it wouldn't look good having a more modern processor in the lower priced product even if it was less powerful than the quad-core Skylake in the 15".

Except they already had a more recent processor on 13'' than on 15''. (broadwell vs haswell)

Rashomon says

No, it doesn't. It tells me they are waiting for a product that can go into the 15" before they upgrade both sizes to the next generation.

They were definitively not "waiting" for skylake processors because they were already on offer a year back.

Heraclitusstudent says

Except they already had a more recent processor on 13'' than on 15''. (broadwell vs haswell)

That was because of a delay in the quad-core Broadwell, and also, more relevantly, it was not a new form factor, merely an update (that was also done at different times between the two sizes).

Heraclitusstudent says

They were definitively not "waiting" for skylake processors because they were already on offer a year back.

I didn't say they were. I said that they can't go to Kaby Lake now because the current crop are low power processors.

rando says

I had only Linux laptops for about 20 years, and finally gave up and bought a MacBook Air because my wife loves hers so much and I was sick of configuring Linux.

I switched to mac from linux shortly after OS X was first released because I was tired of firing vmware whenever some secretary would send me a MS word attachment.

Passing my old macs down to my parents has worked out well; haven't had to deal with viruses yet.

I miss the 17"

Where's the "any" key?

Rashomon says

That was because of a delay in the quad-core Broadwell, and also, more relevantly, it was not a new form factor, merely an update (that was also done at different times between the two sizes).

This is exactly the situation today: the dual core is available but not the quad-core. They have used Broadwell dual-cores and Haswell quad-cores, today they could use Kaby-lake dual-cores and Skylake quad-cores. The form factor doesn't change this.

Rashomon says

I said that they can't go to Kaby Lake now because the current crop are low power processors.

Yes and if all they wanted was to update both models at the same time they could have provided a Skylake update almost a year back, when Skylake quad-cores became available. They didn't need a form factor update. So the fact remains that they deliberately forewent the update and continued to sell older processors.

If you are Cook and all you care about is penny pinching your supply chain, think about the advantages: no new bill of materials, cheaper components, no inventory transition from 1 model to the next. What's not to like?

Heraclitusstudent says

This is exactly the situation today: the dual core is available but not the quad-core. They have used Broadwell dual-cores and Haswell quad-cores, today they could use Kaby-lake dual-cores and Skylake quad-cores. The form factor doesn't change this.

Of course it does. It's a completely new laptop, not an update of an existing model. When has Apple ever released a completely new Pro form factor with two different generations of processors?

Heraclitusstudent says

Yes and if all they wanted was to update both models at the same time they could have provided a Skylake update almost a year back, when Skylake quad-cores became available. They didn't need a form factor update. So the fact remains that they deliberately forewent the update and continued to sell older processors.

So? That's their choice. That hasn't got anything to do with why they haven't got Kaby Lake in them now. They don't have them because they aren't available.

Rashomon says

Heraclitusstudent says

This is exactly the situation today: the dual core is available but not the quad-core. They have used Broadwell dual-cores and Haswell quad-cores, today they could use Kaby-lake dual-cores and Skylake quad-cores. The form factor doesn't change this.

Of course it does.

So you can have 2 different processors only if the design doesn't change.
You're just making this up aren't you?

Rashomon says

So? That's their choice.

Absolutely it's their choice - to deliberately ship older CPUs than they could have.

Heraclitusstudent says

So you can have 2 different processors only if the design doesn't change.

You're just making this up aren't you?

Good grief. Where did I say that? It makes better commercial sense to release a brand new Pro line with the same generation processors. Or do you think it would have been good for Apple to have a 7th generation in the cheaper model and a 6th (albeit more powerful) generation in the more expensive one? How exactly would that have looked? They'll no doubt do a minor update of these models 2nd quarter or so.

Heraclitusstudent says

Absolutely it's their choice - to deliberately ship older CPUs than they could have.

Congratulations on stating the obvious. Why is that a problem for you? Just don't buy the product.

Rashomon says

Congratulations on stating the obvious. Why is that a problem for you? Just don't buy the product.

Congratulations on stating the obvious. Why do you read this? Just don't read this if you don't like the rant.

Heraclitusstudent says

Congratulations on stating the obvious. Why do you read this? Just don't read this if you don't like the rant.

Oh, right and there I was thinking you were complaining before about there not being a Kaby Lake in the Pro. Oh, hang on, you were. And once again, there's a very good reason they aren't in the new model - only the low power versions are available. Now, apparently, you're complaining about them not updating the model a year ago. Perhaps you should have started a thread then.

Rashomon says

And once again, there's a very good reason they aren't in the new model - only the low power versions are available. Now, apparently, you're complaining about them not updating the model a year ago. Perhaps you should have started a thread then.

No I'm just explaining to you that your "very good reason" is in fact very bad because:
1 - they could have shipped different processors AS THEY HAD UNTIL NOW.
2 - they could have updated earlier in the year AND shipped the new form factor later, IF they really needed to adhere to YOUR arbitrary notion that 2 models need to have the same processor level when the form factor is changing.

Bottom line: My initial point that they are deliberately shipping older processors stands. And you now admit it was obvious but you are apparently too dense to note a basic point and move on.

Heraclitusstudent says

2 - they could have updated earlier in the year AND shipped the new form factor later, IF they really needed to adhere to YOUR arbitrary notion that 2 models need to have the same processor level when the form factor is changing.

What? Obviously they could have done that. So what? They decided not to. And it's not my arbitrary notion. You show me a company that has released a brand new line of laptops with different generation processors between the sizes. This is in the full glare of the world's press, not some minor mid-cycle upgrade that resulted in the two sizes having differing processors simply because Intel couldn't bring the quad-core version out on schedule.

Heraclitusstudent says

Bottom line: My initial point that they are deliberately shipping older processors stands. And you now admit it was obvious but you are apparently too dense to note a basic point and move on.

Good grief. Your point was wrong. They aren't deliberately shipping this new laptop with an under powered processor. The I7 is what is available to them until the Kaby Lake version comes out 1st quarter next year. You're the one who can't accept a simple point and move on FFS.