patrick.net

anonymous says

TisT2 - on the LPNs unless they have the foresight etc. to look down the road and realize this is not a long term strategy and fail to work up to RN, they will be like many of the other "rust belt" workers are today which is unemployed but not do to outsourcing unless you consider the inevitable die off of the boomers outsourcing.

Yes, but the current MO is to reduce the number of RNs too with Nursing Aides. There's going to be a period when Millenials are still young, Gen Xers are old but far smaller in population and therefore little demand, and the Boomers are going to leave the Earth and medical services will hit a nadir. Business won't keep them on saying "oh, but in 20 years the millenials will be old." No, they'll lay people off.

We don't create skilled jobs, almost all the jobs we create are 3rd world tourism jobs and bottom, no-future service jobs. This has been going on for a long time, at least 15 years now, it's a trend that doesn't end, not temporary.

Some mix of this needs to happen:
1. How we can create more good paying jobs with a future
2. How to raise wages for the Buttwiping jobs we must have, since we need them and they should live a life of poverty (nor should the state have to make up the difference).

Enough with the laissez faire crap, it's only benefited the wealthy. It doesn't work.

There was no laissez faire anyway, the US Government under corporations deliberately pushed deindustrialization and globalization as a matter of policy. It's 0% Natural, 100% Lobbyist Invented.

Thunderlips is Tovbot2 says

Enough with the laissez faire crap, it's only benefited the wealthy. It doesn't work.

How would you know they haven't had that is a looong time.

It's more than corporate taxes.

First all, when US companies manufacture abroad they play accounting games and use inversions to make and keep the profits offshore, so they aren't taxed unless they bring it back to the states. Some say there is a trillion socked away in corporate cash overseas, some $2T.

If we let them bring the cash back at least we could tax some of the dividends via capital gains.

Secondly, when a US Company moves abroad it pays:
* No more property taxes on the plant, with vast annual contributions lost to the city/county government permanently at precisely the time the local government needs to help the laid off employees.
* No more state taxes
* Ex-employees no longer contribute to payroll taxes, or they do so at a shittier, lower paying, no benefit job and contribute much less.
* Many ex-employees end up entirely on the dole, discover they have a "disability", or qualify for medicaid and food stamps because their new job at the Walmart or the Wally Distro Center pays jack shit.
* Creates Knock-on effects: The Cafe shuts down but the employees are gone or don't make enough at their new job to eat lunch out. Consultants are no longer employed. Local Trucking, Garbage Collection, Water Works, and other services of all kinds lose the factory's business, putting pressure on them to cut.
* Breaks the chain of a virtuous cycle - wealthier middle class buys more shit, which propels more middle class manufacturing jobs. This is why the 50s and 60s were great times. In the Neoliberal vice cycle, As more factories close, wealthier people buy more shit from China, the difference mostly goes into the pockets of the wealthy and well-to-do, and the former lower middle class falls into the paycheck-to-paycheck working class. Families dissolve, children go fatherless, young men turn to crime.

Yes, we can and have had high tech electronics manufacturing on a massive scale in the United States.

And look how white and delightsome the workers are.

@thunder

Nobody is arguing that keeping jobs here is wrong. The problem is how it was done. By giving Carrier a reward for not moving jobs overseas, it opens the door for any and every company to threaten to move jobs overseas so they can get a similar deal.

It's analogous to why the US claims that it doesn't negotiate with terrorists. Of course it's better to pay the terrorist's ransom when you look in isolation, but if you do it, it encourages other terrorists to do the same.

joeyjojojunior says

By giving Carrier a reward for not moving jobs overseas, it opens the door for any and every company to threaten to move jobs overseas so they can get a similar deal.

Everyone will get a good deal.
Lower taxes as a incentive to stay.
Consequences, if they decide to leave.