patrick.net

Logan Mohtashami says

I still can't believe you guys are taking the bait here

Do you realize I just TROLLED YOU & YOU took the bait.

What's your true wealth in FIAT CURRENCY?
Valuing everything one owns in worthless paper is FINANCIAKL GENIUS.
Some aren't dependent on what a rigged market or economy does,collapses.
How many are finankally independent?
Who's got readily available assets? There are some who understand
the hidden meaning is this question.
Great american ENTREPRENEURS pay cash for healthcare.
How's that lung & liver cancer from smoking & drinking coming along?

Manufacturing is the 4th biggest employment sector in the U.S. but it makes up less than 9% of total jobs in the U.S.

This is why the PMI recession bears of 2015 and 2016 will go down in history as one of the worst collapse economic calls we have seen in modern day history

now that oil is up, world trade picking up

HEY YOU says

FIAT CURRENCY?

I will be on... Yes I can't believe I am doing this

I will be on the Real Progressive Live show on Friday night speaking about the Fiat currency

I understand and can respect why someone would hate the Fiat currency model, especially if you're on the mid set of 1913.

I get it

But the U.S. isn't at risk of a currency induced inflation run.... for the 20 Trillion in debt we have

most is own by us

and our economy is 125 Trillion plus in GDP and financial assets we will be fine

HEY YOU says

Who's got readily available assets?

The people with the highest nominal debts have the highest income, assets and education.. they will fine

You have to worry about high school drop outs, drug addicts, criminal active people, they need federal intervention

Sorry--here is a better one.

Logan--you never addressed it. What does the rising inequality mean to the US economy, in your opinion?

Belgium and Ireland hold 2.2% of US debt? That's kind of weird, since combined they have only about 15 million people.

joeyjojojunior says

Sorry--here is a better one.

In 2013 Professor Sufi from Chicago Booth and I used this chart and actually it's the 0.01% that owns a lot more than the 1%

However, the mistake that is made is that only the rich have all the assets, most educated middle class Americans have homes, 401K plans

It's the lower educated and skilled gap that doesn't

This is why the U.S. economy is growing and had the best domestic economy in the world for a mature economy because it has better demographics

I fear that the people who keep on putting this chart up are waiting for some 1929 crash and the economy now is so much different than before ... just basic S.S. wasn't even around in 1929

rando says

2.2% of US debt?

government purchases

One thing at that conference the Chinese and Japanese love Ginne Mae debt because it has a juicy yield compared to most yielding product out there

"However, the mistake that is made is that only the rich have all the assets, most educated middle class Americans have homes, 401K plans"

Does it really matter? When 1% or 0.01% own 25% of the assets, you don't see that as a problem?

"I fear that the people who keep on putting this chart up are waiting for some 1929 crash and the economy now is so much different than before ... just basic S.S. wasn't even around in 1929"

OK great. Please detail the differences and why it means that the economy can now survive with such large chunk of assets (and buying power) is in the hands of such a few. Please limit the charts to ones that directly show the important differences between 1929 and now. I agree the safety net will keep us from having another Great Depression, but it won't keep us from having a very long, very deep recession.

joeyjojojunior says

Please detail the differences and why it means that the economy can now survive with such large chunk of assets (and buying power

Because for many reason the poor money velocity people who said Americans are too poor and not educated to spend ... missed that

A. retail sales are at cycle and world record highs today
B. Home sales today are at cycle highs with the highest mortgage buyers in this cycle

If the money velocity thesis held water we would look like Japan and Europe 20 years ago.. because the middle class makes money to service debt and has assets on top of that

This is why this chart hasn't failed... this chart is the big defeat of the American Bears

So telling everyone that death is coming, Americans are broke, poor stupid, lazy... etc etc

Once you adjust to demographic over lays, things have looked the same for decades

Obviously older Americans don't spend like they did once they were younger they become net savers and that is a demographic deflationary thesis

but because people can't read data properly a lot of these death calls haven't panned out

It's admirable what you liberals on this page are trying to do, I hear you, but over playing the capitalism card has consequences.. boy who cried wolf

Obviously my fellow conservatives have too much fear on the other side that government is too big

Logan--

OK, so you posted charts showing retail sales and AVERAGE hourly earnings (I thought you said you never used averages, oh well). Those show the past, not the future. How about you show those SAME charts for the period 1920-1929? Let's see how differently things looked back then.

"So telling everyone that death is coming, Americans are broke, poor stupid, lazy... etc etc"

Nice strawman. Nobody is saying Americans are stupid, or lazy. They are, however, being exploited by the 1%. As workers' productivity continue to rise, their pay doesn't.

Logan Mohtashami says

Obviously my fellow conservatives

LIBERALS BOYCOTT ALL CONSERVATIVES.
Shrink their wallets.
They have no control. They can't stop FREEDOM.

joeyjojojunior says

1920-1929?

I am telling you as I have told all my extreme right and left wing friends, comparing the roaring 20's to know is a mistake, benefits now as a part of wages wasn't even a part of America back in 1920's

20 years I have seen these same 1929 theories they don't work

joeyjojojunior says

As workers' productivity continue to rise, their pay doesn't.

The way people are reading income is incorrect this is why the Great American collapse theories doesn't hold merit

Educated Americans the middle class is the bigger reason why the middle class shrunk because they make over 100K

educated women now make money.. dual income power wasn't even story back the 20's

The 1929 collapse theory people are economically sexist because they discount the role of women, our educated ass kicking American women... :-)

Don't bet against us

Logan's chest thumping and name dropping reminds me an observation that I made some years ago.

My wife and I did our grad studies at an Ivy university. In in the parking lot in front of the business school where she studied, one could always see an array of flashy luxerous cars. In front of the Physics dept where I studied there was a small parking lot with mostly 5-10 year old toyotas and hondas. Yet among them were the cars of four Nobel prize winners.

"I am telling you as I have told all my extreme right and left wing friends, comparing the roaring 20's to know is a mistake, benefits now as a part of wages wasn't even a part of America back in 1920's"

OK-- benefits weren't a part of wages. Show me the retail sales from 1920-29 and real wage growth back then and make an adjustment for benefits and then show me why it's different now vs. then.

"Educated Americans the middle class is the bigger reason why the middle class shrunk because they make over 100K, educated women now make money.. dual income power wasn't even story back the 20's The 1929 collapse theory people are economically sexist because they discount the role of women, our educated ass kicking American women... :-) "

OK, it's different now because women work. Is that your premise?

FP says

Logan's chest thumping and name dropping reminds me an observation that I made some years ago.

Chest thumping is for people that haven't been there... FP

I am curious, haven't you ever ???

How is it that a lonely little loan officer from Irvine CA with a degree in history working for mommy and daddy with no connections to wall street, the media, college professors, economist and big business ...

How did he... get it right?

I was thinking the stocks picks for 2016 would jar some curiosity.... wink... wink...

I mean in theory I have no training in economics, data mining ....right... if you were to believe the self narrative thesis ....

limf (x) = sky
x-a

joeyjojojunior says

OK, it's different now because women work. Is that your premise?

You're asking the wrong question ....

Have to ask yourself why isn't America a failed state since the chart you use would imply the decline of society from 1978 ... shocking it runs right with civilian labor force growth

I can only guide you to answer, you have to know why yourself

Logan Mohtashami says

I wonder how much of the increased percentage of household making over 100K has to do with two income households. Perhaps all of it.

If you factor in health care, college education costs (both way above CPI) and the loss of pensions you basically have people barely doing better with two incomes, than they used to do with one.

marcus says

Perhaps all of it.

Education = Income = wage inflation = demographic adjusted wages

Peak earning income years are 45-54 ;-)

No matter what you guys or gals shoot at me the direction is still up ....

I have no oath to ideological views but to mother economics

She is a serial killer ... she wants to get caught, she can't help herself ... she will always leave crumbs ...

The trick is being disciplined to follow the crumbs

"You're asking the wrong question ...."

I don't believe I am, but if you can present a rational argument then I will reconsider.

"Have to ask yourself why isn't America a failed state since the chart you use would imply the decline of society from 1978 ... shocking it runs right with civilian labor force growth"

This is easy. The US in 1978 was actually humming along very well. It's been in a slow decline since but it started from a good spot so it had a long way to go before it got critical. But the main reason why America isn't a failed state has been the growth in credit. The 1% has loaned back its assets to the 99% (and the government) so demand doesn't fall too precipitously. Unfortunately, at some point, the capacity of the 99% to take on any more debt will be exhausted. And things will get worse.

joeyjojojunior says

The US in 1978 was actually humming along very well.

You mean stagflation was a good thing ... because more of your $ were going to your food purchases right

That the expansion on banking and credit has demised the U.S. to the most powerful economy in the world ... this is a bad thing because it allows educated people to do better than uneducated people...

It's not fair that skills and education allows you the purchasing power to be able to service debt

Man... this is a hard sell.. because of this

"You mean stagflation was a good thing ... because more of your $ were going to your food purchases right"

I'll take the economy of 1978 over now any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Anyone who knows anything about economics would.

joeyjojojunior says

I'll take the economy of 1978 over now any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Anyone who knows anything about economics would.

Of course because liberals love the high inflation thesis of 1978 but don't adjust to the expansion of incomes, jobs and wealth of the next 4 decades

and they all live here..

Shocking that educated liberals working and living in coastal cities are the ones doing well but they hate it ... they hate what America has become

"Of course because liberals love the high inflation thesis of 1978 but don't adjust to the expansion of incomes, jobs and wealth of the next 4 decades and they all live here.. Shocking that educated liberals working and living in coastal cities are the ones doing well but they hate it ... they hate what America has become"

What does this jibberish even mean? Do you have a point to make here?

And getting back to the original topic we were discussing--how do the retail sales and hourly earnings growth from 1920-29 compare to the last 10 years?

joeyjojojunior says

how do the retail sales and hourly earnings growth from 1920-29 compare to the last 10 years?

If you understand this chart you would realize how useless it is to promote a 1929 crash...liberal wet dream of capitalism dying ..and hoping for the failed state like there beloved government socialist economies of before

Hint:

Marx failed, his grandchildren failed.... The old style of socialism died with the Soviet Union , every economy is a private and public corporation which drives the left mad ... simply mad because if forces you to get an education, work, and stay off drugs

Shocking most Americans are hard working people who don't cry and beg every day... how can this be...

Its a shame that Marx and Malthus aren't alive to watch their epic calls fail

Humans progressed, poverty is down

Logan is giving seminar in real time ON HOW TO BE WORLD'S BIGGEST DOUCHEBAG!!!

freespeechforever says

ON HOW TO BE WORLD'S BIGGEST DOUCHEBAG!!!

Douchebad, mommy and daddy, idiots, countless name calling...

I mean I must be doing this for a reason ... if America doesn't collapse in the next 10 years, every worthless liberal and conservative thesis on this Hell Hole of a site is time stamped

Don't worry I have hustled a lot better ball players than you guys...

Better get that American crash and poverty blow up soon... you don't want to sound like a Chump right????

freespeechforever says

douchebaguette.

"If you understand this chart you would realize how useless it is to promote a 1929 crash...liberal wet dream of capitalism dying ..and hoping for the failed state like there beloved government socialist economies of before"

This is where you make me laugh. Why would you post that chart with some cryptic sentence about liberals, wet dreams, and socialists? Are you incapable of making a cogent, logical argument? Are the people at your conferences so dizzied by colors and pie charts that they don't care if you actually make sense? Please elaborate on what YOU think that chart says and how it is applicable to the discussion at hand.

"Shocking most Americans are hard working people who don't cry and beg every day... how can this be... "

Of course they are. Americans are great. The problem isn't that people are lazy. The problem is that the system is rigged for the 1%.

Logan Mohtashami says

I am curious, haven't you ever ???

Haven't I what? Don't understand your question.

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

Hey, everyone, call this outfit and ask how much it costs for a speaking slot at their Fast Forward scamference. Details below.

Awwww poor baby

Little troll who hides behind a fake is upset that mommy and daddy didn't give him a real name

I am so sorry.. it's ok... maybe we can have a spelling B contest here and you guys can beat me on that

Call David Stockman and ask him how much he paid to speak

and Christopher Whallen

Also

Call the President of Ginne Mae, Mark Fleeming the head economist at first american and ask them how much they paid

Call the President of Radiant and ask her how much she paid

Come on

I dare you I double dare you to do this

FP says

Haven't I what? Don't understand your question.

that I am just giving the illusion of being just a loan officer ...