patrick.net

Rashomon says

Which is a matter for the police. What happened doesn't give Trump the right to threaten the funding of the university.

Sure it does - they are failing to protect the students and the freeplay of ideas that are the cornerstone of a University.

T L Lipsovich says

And they can't make the Republican Students pay for everything either. Once the violence happens, it should become a state/university financial burden. That makes sure they don't let it get out of hand to begin with

So it should have been better policed. It was pretty obvious that something like this might happen - that it would attract radical groups from around the area.

T L Lipsovich says

Sure it does - they are failing to protect the students and the freeplay of ideas that are the cornerstone of a University.

No, they aren't. The talk was given the go ahead, so how is the university blocking free speech or practicing violence on innocents as Trump claimed? That is simply bullshit on his part.

Rashomon says

No, they aren't. The talk was given the go ahead, so how is the university blocking free speech or practicing violence on innocents as Trump claimed? That is simply bullshit on his part.

You answered your question - the police should have been better prepared. The Administration will have to do a better job when Milo returns soon :)

T L Lipsovich says

You answered your question - the police should have been better prepared. The Administration will have to do a better job when Milo returns soon :)

I notice how you and others have singularly failed to address the actual topic of the thread...

Rashomon says

I notice how you and others have singularly failed to address the actual topic of the thread...

If the University has a record of failing to protect Free Speech, they should lose funding.

T L Lipsovich says

If the University has a record of failing to protect Free Speech, they should lose funding.

I wonder who'll be the judge of that...

Next Time bring a red hat,

"Make the 1st Amendment Great Again"

Ironman says

Amazing how people are being TROLLED by this Rashomo dude....

Oh fuck off CIC. You are apparently some retired sad sack who spends his entire waking day on here doing nothing but posting the most idiotic, childish, petty trollish shite one could possibly imagine. Isn't it time you fucking grew up or are you so emasculated that this is all you can resort to? This trollish nonsense you post constantly gives you your only sense of empowerment, does it? How very sad you are.

Rashomon says

I wonder who'll be the judge of that...

The government. After all, elected officials control the purse according to the Constitution. If they can decide to drone bomb a country we aren't at war with without their permission, they can certainly cut off funding if they think a University is winking at Repression.

The unelected 4th Estate Neoconlib 5th Column is something else, however.

"It's okay to punch out Nazis. Therefore, this gay jew liberal who is opposed to special treatment for everybody and doesn't acknowledge the evil of white privilege is a nazi, therefore it is okay to punch him and his henchmen supporters."

T L Lipsovich says

The government. After all, elected officials control the purse according to the Constitution. If they can decide to drone bomb a country we aren't at war with without their permission, they can certainly cut off funding if they think a University is winking at Repression.

The unelected 4th Estate Neoconlib 5th Column is something else, however.

"It's okay to punch out Nazis. Therefore, this gay jew liberal who is opposed to special treatment for everybody and doesn't acknowledge the evil of white privilege is a nazi, therefore it is okay to punch him and his henchmen supporters."

You want Trump's administration to make that kind of decision? And based on what? That he wakes up in the early hours and says X university is responsible for preventing freedom of speech and bringing violence upon innocent bystanders when they did no such thing.
Some people seem awfully angry about what a handful of young people did. Personally, I'm more concerned that a number of you seem happy to totally ignore the threat that Trump so readily tweeted out, no doubt with his usual little to no thought.

In the same way that allowing ISIS to grow creates a vacuum in the areas they took over,

NAFTA and the millions of jobs lost created a backlash against the social engineering(job loss, career loss, massive welfare). The great irony is that the parents of these kids have lost good jobs, and the kids themself earning potential is cut just as the jobs have gone out, and the last 10 have seen reduction in average salaries.

This is as deceptive in many ways as the Bolshevik revolution, who promised power to the people, and a control of their destiny, a means of goverment production. Of course after 10s of millions of lives lost and Russia only recently emerged out of communism this was proved to be wrong.

Many of the kids protesting were not around when the wall came down in Berlin, and CNN and MSNBC dont report this. However the perception is that the wall we are building is too overzealous (and the drug culture and its negative side effects are not on the radar for these types of protestors).

When the protesters dont realize the why they are mad, what caused them to get in this position, this is the root of socialism and the path towards totalitarianism and dictator ship. We have seen a few dictators go in the Arab spring, but we need to see it through to the end.

Best medicine would be a 3 year Army stint to middle east ( but these flakes are way too special for this)!

Rashomon says

Some people seem awfully angry about what a handful of young people did. Personally, I'm more concerned that a number of you seem happy to totally ignore the threat that Trump so readily tweeted out, no doubt with his usual little to no thought.

I'm puzzled by your logic.

On one hand, you think the devolution of power from Oligrarchical Multinational Concentrated Media like Comcast, Fox, News Corp, Time-Warner, etc. is a bad thing, on the other hand you dismiss the recent outbursts of political violence as no biggie.

Rashomon says

It's interesting that you're more concerned with a few signs than the fact a sitting President is threatening the funding of a major university.

If the university producing retarded trans dykes, whatever that means, they are seriously wasting our tax dollars.

Pull the funding right away.

jvolstad says

(What the "F" is a Trans Dyke?)

I'm just guessing. But maybe it means that when Bruce Jenner became Kaitlyn Jenner, he, uh rather she, still likes women. MY feeling is that if a guy wants that, they've got too much time on their hands.

MY hat's off to you if you don't have to spend most of your time making a living like most of us. But can't you spend that extra time you have (due to your wealth and success) doing something more productive and useful than fantasizing about being a lesbian woman ? I can't help but wonder whether people such as Jenner maybe denied themselves pleasure too much in their youth or something along those lines.

Congratulations on needing to Google the meaning of rashomon. Personally, I thought it was an apt name given some of the posts people make on this site.
And CIC, Ironman, dipshit troll or whatever name you go by, isn't it time you changed your speil - it got old a very long time ago. But hey, if this is the best you can do to fill your pathetic excuse of a retirement, you have a miniscule amount of my sympathy.

T L Lipsovich says

I'm puzzled by your logic.

On one hand, you think the devolution of power from Oligrarchical Multinational Concentrated Media like Comcast, Fox, News Corp, Time-Warner, etc. is a bad thing, on the other hand you dismiss the recent outbursts of political violence as no biggie.

That's not what I was saying. I was making a general point about the changes in the way news is being accessed on multiple fronts. Newspapers were far more prevalent in the not too distant past, there was more nuanced journalism, more investigative journalism.... This is not about a few big media (primarily TV) companies, it's about an avalanche of information that has become less and less accurate, more and more superficial, and increasingly compartmentalised, drawing the same self-reinforcing viewership, who over time are seeming to become ever more entrenched in their outlooks, and ignore all evidence to the contrary no matter how overwhelming - the changing climate being one obvious example.

And we were talking about Berkeley, were we not? That wasn't exactly a huge disturbance, to me at least. Any violence is troubling, but that event is being reshaped into far more than it was in terms of attacking the university (see Trump's response) and students in general - anyone can take a couple of steps off the street into that square and get involved in causing a disturbance, and yet all I hear are people banging on about students being radicalised by professors etc., etc. From what I've read, the trouble was predominantly caused by an Oakland based anarcho group.

Ironman says

Rashomon says

isn't it time you changed your speil - it got old a very long time ago.

What, calling out assholes like you that continue with baseless spewing not backed up by FACTS....

Boo hoo... why don't you go cry to Patrick like the other pussies here.

Time for you to go off an whine and head to your Safe Space.

Blah, blah, blah, same old same old. Your trolling needs a refresh.

Blurtman says

He was banned from Twitter because Leslie Jones demanded that he be banned. Milo Tweeted her contact details, and Jones complained about the Tweets she was receiving, including racist Tweets, and so Milo was banned. (I can't believe I am using Tweet in a sentence). Milo did not encourage anyone to make racist Tweets. And now the MSM is reporting that Milo was banned for making racist Tweets directed at Jones.

Putting up someone's contact details is a form of harassment, is it not? He's basically inciting people to abuse her - he certainly can't plead ignorance to what would happen from doing that. According to the WP 'Twitter said he was permanently banned for a violation of the company’s rules “prohibiting, participating in or inciting targeted abuse of individuals."'

Speaking of Universities, guess what reason Washington State is claiming should trump a ban based on National Security?

www.youtube.com/embed/DEK8FCBMkMQ

Rashomon says

Putting up someone's contact details is a form of harassment, is it not?

Did he post her personal information, or just her Twitter address?

Here is what went down.

"Among Jones’ critics on Monday was Yiannopoulos — which ultimately led to the suspension of his account. Although Yiannopoulos’ tweets are not available anymore, Breitbart published a transcript of the duo’s Twitter interaction.

“If at first you don’t succeed (because your work is terrible), play the victim. EVERYONE GETS HATE MAIL FFS,” Yiannopoulos tweeted.

“Ghostbusters is doing so badly they’ve deployed @Lesdoggg to play the victim on Twitter. Very sad!” Yiannopoulos posted, followed by tweets that read: “Barely literate. America needs better schools!” and “rejected by yet another black dude.”"

http://college.usatoday.com/2016/07/25/the-whole-leslie-jones-twitter-feud-explained/

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/07/18/ghostbuster-leslie-jones-reports-milo/

Rashomon says

Putting up someone's contact details is a form of harassment, is it not?

I don't think so.

Rashomon says

He's basically inciting people to abuse her

I see no evidence of his inciting people. I know you think you know what he was thinking, and maybe you are right, but there is no proof of that in his tweets.

And Twitter can ban anyone they want. It's their business.

Blurtman says

Rashomon says

Putting up someone's contact details is a form of harassment, is it not?

I don't think so.

Rashomon says

He's basically inciting people to abuse her

I see no evidence of his inciting people. I know you think you know what he was thinking, and maybe you are right, but there is no proof of that in his tweets.

And Twitter can ban anyone they want. It's their business.

Rashomon says

I would say far too many people simply love posting hugely offensive shit anonymously

For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_academic-athletic_scandal

Anonymous speech is necessary to any functioning democracy, especially if it's controversial or at odds with what the "good people" believe.

Otherwise "Who is a Nazi it's okay to punch/ostracize/make unemployable" is gradually defined down and somebody who says "She said Dongle, huh huh" "Fork my repo, huh uh" in a Beavis/Butthead voice gets fired based on a tweet from a snoopy bystander.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/how-dongle-jokes-got-two-people-fired-and-led-to-ddos-attacks/

Rashomon says

Sending pictures of women covered in semen is not necessary.

If you mean when you look up some hot porn star, and you get a gallery of "Tribute" assholes holding up a picture of her with their semen all over it, yeah, that should be illegal.

Rashomon says

Except plenty of people jumped on that comment, while most of us simply ignored it for the stupid comment it was.

How about everybody demands an apology while HBO dumps her show and all advertisers pull out of all her events? That's what happens when the target isn't white or male.

Rashomon says

And you seemingly don't want to acknowledge that some of them might be.

Therefore all of them are?

Can I say Breast Meat instead of White Meat, or is that still declasse and so offensive?

Do women sweat? Or is that just horses. Women GLOW. Men Perspire. Only horses sweat, my dear. Now tighten your whalebone corset, we are high standard respectable people who do not brook uncouth offensive language, my dears.

T L Lipsovich says

Anonymous speech is necessary to any functioning democracy, especially if it's controversial or at odds with what the "good people" believe.

Otherwise "Who is a Nazi it's okay to punch/ostracize/make unemployable" is gradually defined down and somebody who says "She said Dongle, huh huh" "Fork my repo, huh uh" in a Beavis/Butthead voice gets fired based on a tweet from a snoopy bystander.

Your example isn't the same as what Leslie Jones went through - it's exactly the example that I put up and what Ronson talked about. The two things aren't the same.

Rashomon says

You're example isn't the same as what Leslie Jones went through - it's exactly the example that I put up and what Ronson talked about. The two things aren't the same.

Yeah, Leslie Jones didn't get fired. These guys, one of whom had kids to feed, did. Over a stupid, muttered under breath comment unmeant to be heard by anybody but his colleague that enraged the Social Justice / Womyn in STEM Crowd.

T L Lipsovich says

Therefore all of them are?

Eh? Where did I say all of them were?
T L Lipsovich says

Yeah, Leslie Jones didn't get fired. These guys, who have kids, did. Over a stupid, muttered under breath comment unmeant to be heard by anybody but his colleague.

Which is exactly my fucking point - words have consequences - these people, just like the London women, had their lives turned upside down as a consequence of a herd mentality - in their case for doing nothing but make an innocuous joke. Jones did nothing at all and was systematically targeted for racist and misogynistic abuse. They aren't the same type of examples.

Rashomon says

Which is exactly my fucking point - words have consequences - these people, just like the London women, had their lives turned upside down as a consequence of a herd mentality - in their case for doing nothing but make an innocuous joke. Jones did nothing at all and was systematically targeted for racist and misogynistic abuse. They aren't the same type of examples.

Words are Words, deeds are deeds and words should not have consequences 99.9999% of the time. As you know, I believe that Free Speech should apply everywhere, in workplaces and especially in universities, except military secrets by active and former personnel. The idea you don't have free speech at a workplace or university is a holdover from the feudal era where you are your bosses' property or somehow represent the university. No, you are trading your labor for money. Not your conscience.

T L Lipsovich says

Words are Words, deeds are deeds and words should not have consequences 99.9999% of the time. As you know, I believe that Free Speech should apply everywhere, in workplaces and especially in universities, except military secrets by active and former personnel. The idea you don't have free speech at a workplace or university is a holdover from the feudal era where you are your bosses' property or somehow represent the university. No, you are trading your labor for money. Not your conscience.

Words matter. Words lead to deeds. Responsibility for what one says should matter. Free speech doesn't apply everywhere whether you think it should or not - do you really want ISIS to be free to recruit on campus for example? I think there are limits, but then I'm not American, so maybe we just simply hold different perspectives.

Rashomon says

Words matter. Words lead to deeds. Responsibility for what one says should matter. Free speech doesn't apply everywhere whether you think it should or not - do you really want ISIS to be free to recruit on campus for example? I think there are limits, but then I'm not American, so maybe we just simply hold different perspectives.

Explain to me how calling an actress fat and untalented leads to any deeds?

If Trump is assassinated, do Rosa Brooks, Sarah Silverman, and others who have hinted at violent coups deserve to be charged with Accessory to Murder?

By the way, you can't believe this and be a liberal, since this entire line of thinking is fundamentally anti-liberal and totalitarian. Not authoritarian because authoritarians don't try to control what you think; obedience is enough (the entire point of contrast with traditional authorities in 1984) What are you?

T L Lipsovich says

Explain to me how calling an actress fat and untalented leads to any deeds?

If Trump is assassinated, do Rosa Brooks, Sarah Silverman, and others who have hinted at violent coups deserve to be charged with Accessory to Murder?

It creates a climate, don't you think? Pretty much every movement started off with words. They have power to influence.

T L Lipsovich says

By the way, you can't believe this and be a liberal, since this entire line of thinking is fundamentally anti-liberal and totalitarian. Not authoritarian because authoritarians don't try to control what you think; obedience is enough (the entire point of contrast with traditional authorities in 1984) What are you?

I guess that depends on what you mean by liberal. There have always been limitations on free speech in Europe, and for pretty good reasons in many cases (whether or not you agree with them), and those limitations have been widely supported. This isn't the defining point of being liberally minded, certainly not in Europe at least. I believe in the right of people to express their opinions, but I don't see why that can't be done in a civil manner, though I'll happily make an exception for one or two on this forum.

Rashomon says

I guess that depends on what you mean by liberal. There have always been limitations on free speech in Europe, and for pretty good reasons in many cases (whether or not you agree with them), and those limitations have been widely supported. This isn't the defining point of being liberally minded, certainly not in Europe at least.

Historically Europe has been a lot less interested in civil liberties, also.

T L Lipsovich says

Historically Europe has been a lot less interested in civil liberties, also.

It's also given people universal healthcare, better social services etc. etc. Take your choice.

Rashomon says

It's also given people universal healthcare, better social services etc. etc. Take your choice.

And started the world's bloodiest wars. And notably anti-democratic. The EU itself is an anti-democratic institution, designed to be an extra-level of governance limiting Democracy, just in case the Communists or Hard Left won a majority in Italy or France.

Rashomon says

Rockers

In the 50s, the levels of power encouraged and tolerated open bias against White Males?

T L Lipsovich says

Words are Words, deeds are deeds and words should not have consequences 99.9999% of the time. As you know, I believe that Free Speech should apply everywhere, in workplaces and especially in universities, except military secrets by active and former personnel. The idea you don't have free speech at a workplace or university is a holdover from the feudal era where you are your bosses' property or somehow represent the university. No, you are trading your labor for money. Not your conscience.

yes, it's a holdover and a horrible loophole used to arbitrarily DENY someone something. promotion, raise, bonus, steady pay, continuous employment, grade point average, degree, whatever.

what's insidious is that the claim doesn't even have to be true for the reprimand to be executed. further, THE STAIN NEVER GOES AWAY - people carry it on their reputation for the duration of their studies/employment at that institution.