patrick.net

Dan is a public denier and a private believer.
One can distill this from his posts.

FortWayne says

Oh shut up. You have faith too...liberalism is faith too. You just won't admit it.

Bullshit. Faith is the belief without, and often in spite of, evidence. Everything I believe, I can support with reasoning and evidence.

How many times do I have to show you this video?

www.youtube.com/embed/f8U_JveHS8E

PeopleUnited says

Actually Dan is not a liberal. A true liberal would encourage people to practice whatever faith they desired.

Also bullshit. A true liberal doesn't encourage people to practice a religion that performs unwilling human sacrifices. Nor would a liberal encourage any religion that infringes upon the rights of others, which is just about every religion. Nor does liberalism mean endorsing delusions, whether they be from drugs or religion.

Your comment is just one more example of people not knowing what liberalism is.

PeopleUnited says

I dislike labels but the problem with Dan's philosophy is that without a moral absolute (which by the way comes from God) there is no foundation from which to build.

Feel free to prove the assertion that morality is either absolute and unquestionable or arbitrary and meaningless. I'll have that debate any time. Easy win.

The fact is that science has solved how morality works, whereas religion has always failed to do this.

PeopleUnited says

But there is no point in arguing with someone so wise as him. You will only lower yourself by debating what is obvious to every successful culture around the world. There is a God and He knows more than we do.

Societies don't think. Individuals do. And individuals, even great numbers of them, can are are wrong. I've disproved the monotheistic god in other threads. Feel free to counter those arguments. You'll fail, especially since the only thing you're bringing to the table right now is baseless assertion.

BlueSardine says

Dan is a public denier and a private believer.

Another example of how the religious are delusional.

Strategist says

The causes of Islamic terrorism is really very simple.

Preaching hate and violence, in mosques and madrassas.

And what enables the teaching of irrational hate and violence?

Dan8267 says

And what enables the teaching of irrational hate and violence?

Islam.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

The causes of Islamic terrorism is really very simple.


Preaching hate and violence, in mosques and madrassas.

And what enables the teaching of irrational hate and violence?

People with irrational expectations that Allah wants them to conquer the world, and that it is their duty to destroy the non believers.
The same reasoning they have held for 1,400 years, well before USA was discovered. So don't foolishly blame America.

Strategist says

The causes of Islamic terrorism is really very simple.
Preaching hate and violence, in mosques and madrassas. If you get rid of the hate preachers, Islamic terrorism will start to fade.

I'd like to believe that, but I don't.

Hate is central to the Koran. Over and over, on every page, unbelievers are vilified and believers praised and pitied for having to live on the same earth as such unbelieving scum.

You want some quotes?

Strategist says

People with irrational expectations that Allah wants them to conquer the world,

Key word: irrational. That's the root of all problems with faith, not just one particular faith, but faith itself.

Lack of Sex, All-encompassing Ideology.

Lack of Sex is the #1 factor in most terrorism.

rando says

Koran

You mean Quran? I think the Koran is Kim Jong-un's manifesto.

rando says

Hate is central to the Koran. Over and over, on every page, unbelievers are vilified and believers praised and pitied for having to live on the same earth as such unbelieving scum.

How can I disagree? Most Muslims will still interpret that hate in a different/peaceful context. That is what we need. We don't want the preachers interpreting it the way Mohammad the pedophile intended.

rando says

You want some quotes?

Hell no. I don't want to throw up my dinner.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Lack of Sex is the #1 factor in most terrorism.

And what causes the lack of sex? Faith.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Lack of Sex is the #1 factor in most terrorism.

Did they run out of goats in all the Islamic countries?

zzyzzx says

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Lack of Sex is the #1 factor in most terrorism.

Did they run out of goats in all the Islamic countries?

You are so insensitive, Zzyzzx. Do you think goats can compete with the breeding rates of Muslims? Obviously there is a shortage go goats, and sheep, and camels.

Dan8267 says

Everything I believe, I can support with reasoning and evidence.

Said the guy who elevated his own reasoning above his Creator's and ignored every single piece of evidence that the universe cannot exist without God.

At least if you were honest with yourself you would say that because you cannot measure or observe every aspect of the natural world you cannot possibly establish how it came into existence and therefore cannot possibly rule out the fact that there is a Creator. But unfortunately you cannot even be honest with yourself. When you deceive your own self, how can you expect others to believe anything you say?

Dan8267 says

The fact is that science has solved how morality works, whereas religion has always failed to do this.

So your belief system is based on "science." And scientists have never been wrong.

Dan8267 says

I've disproved the monotheistic god in other threads.

This would be funny if it weren't so sad. But at least you have FAITH in yourself!

Lack of sex coupled with an arab chromosome abnormality rendering all female arabs lesbians would account for the average rabid savage fanatical islamist and the urging on of the unspeakable by their wives...what we have been missing all along is that the wives get the 72 virgins...

PeopleUnited says

There are women Jihadi's too, and they are not motivated by the 72 virgins.

Case in point.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. Faith is the belief without, and often in spite of, evidence. Everything I believe, I can support with reasoning and evidence.

I have evidence for what I believe, and you have your "evidence" in which you believe.

You just happen to hate religion, conservatism, etc... that is your choice, your faith, for which you reason backwards even when clearly wrong.

PeopleUnited says

Said the guy who elevated his own reasoning above his Creator's and ignored every single piece of evidence that the universe cannot exist without God.

It is impossible to do that since your false god does not exist. Your entire statement is meaningless. And yet, you demonstrate with clarity exactly why faith is bad. It causes people to be completely irrational and unintelligible. If you were born in the Middle East, you'd be a radical Islamist.

PeopleUnited says

So your belief system is based on "science." And scientists have never been wrong.

Science and scientists are not the same thing. Science is a self-correcting mechanism. Religion is not. Science got us to the moon. No amount of praying would do that. Science has cured diseases and double the human lifespan. Religious miracles are all lies and tricks. Science has enlightened mankind on how the universe works. Religion has never been right about anything.

Those who have no respect for science deserve no respect.

However, once again your post makes a good demonstration of why science and faith cannot coexist. Our society should choose science, which has greatly enhanced the quality of life, over religion which has only caused suffering.

PeopleUnited says

Dan8267 says

I've disproved the monotheistic god in other threads.

This would be funny if it weren't so sad.

The only thing sad here is that that's the best argument you could make. I would expect more from a fifth grader.

PeopleUnited says

But at least you have FAITH in yourself!

I have knowledge of my existence. Faith and knowledge are, by definition, mutually exclusive. Shit, you don't even know theology.

FortWayne says

I have evidence for what I believe, and you have your "evidence" in which you believe.

OK, I'm calling your bluff. Show your evidence.
FortWayne says

You just happen to hate religion, conservatism, etc... that is your choice, your faith, for which you reason backwards even when clearly wrong.

I hate evil. Religion and faith are evil. They are vices.

No good requires either, but both have caused people to do great evil. Both mandate irrationality and the belief in lies. And both, as you and PeopleUnited have demonstrated repeatedly, prevent people from thinking clearly and acquiring wisdom. Wisdom cannot be gained through lies and delusions. Wisdom is derived from accurate and truthful knowledge and understanding. As the religious have demonstrated on this thread, faith is incompatible with knowledge and understanding.

Islam is not a religion. it's a state sanctioned order of existence, which is not permitted by the constitution.

Blue bell bottoms will do that to ya.
Just look at all the radicalized libbies running around campuses today...

PeopleUnited says

Osama Bin Laden was a well to do man from a well to do family who was radicalized.

Dan, your self deception is obvious to everyone but yourself. At least if you were honest with yourself you would say that because you cannot measure or observe every aspect of the natural world you cannot possibly establish how it came into existence and therefore cannot possibly rule out the fact that there is a Creator. But unfortunately you cannot even be honest with yourself. When you deceive your own self, how can you expect others to believe anything you say?

Dan8267 says

Science and scientists are not the same thing.

Duh, but science was invented by scientists. Therefore science is only as good as the scientist. Once again you put your faith in the creature (science) more than the Creator. Another form of self deception.

You have FAITH in yourself. You believe that YOU can explain away your creator. That is a lot of faith! I think you have more faith than the most devoted religious person you know. You worship at the alter of human reasoning and yet dismiss the very purpose for your ability to reason.

Dan8267 says

Science and scientists are not the same thing. Science is a self-correcting mechanism. Religion is not. Science got us to the moon. No amount of praying would do that. Science has cured diseases and double the human lifespan. Religious miracles are all lies and tricks. Science has enlightened mankind on how the universe works. Religion has never been right about anything.

Hey, Dan does know a little bit about some things. I'm impressed.

PeopleUnited says

Dan, your self deception is obvious to everyone but yourself. At least if you were honest with yourself you would say that because you cannot measure or observe every aspect of the natural world you cannot possibly establish how it came into existence and therefore cannot possibly rule out the fact that there is a Creator.

You make a good point, but you would have to answer how the "creator" came into existence.

No MTV.

Dan8267 says

I hate evil. Religion and faith are evil. They are vices.

No good requires either, but both have caused people to do great evil. Both mandate irrationality and the belief in lies. And both, as you and PeopleUnited have demonstrated repeatedly, prevent people from thinking clearly and acquiring wisdom. Wisdom cannot be gained through lies and delusions. Wisdom is derived from accurate and truthful knowledge and understanding. As the religious have demonstrated on this thread, faith is incompatible with knowledge and understanding.

You speak like a blind man who has no idea what light is like.

Religion preaches love and faith, higher moral principles that unite us all as people under a common set of guiding principles. Without religion, who is to say what is right or wrong? Because what is not right for one, is right for another.

It isn't science, but it's not anti-science. Religion teaches wisdom and understanding. Something you closed your mind to, and no longer have as a skill Dan. You need religion more than anyone else to help you better.

Dan8267 says

Science got us to the moon

but can't tell us why people love the moonlight or why the moon is memorizlized in more poetry and songs than any body in the heavens. It can tell the how of the rainbow but not why the rainbow resonates with peoples hearts and souls, something you don't believe in. The unquantifiable realms of life bring more meaning to our lives than anything that can be enumerated in a laboratory and anyone can tell that from their personal experiece.

Hater says

What are the root causes of Islamic terrorism

A singularity, in which a more and more isolated OBL, in anger with the Saudis, his own family, used > $200M as venture capitol for terror. He was spoiled, and had so much more than most Muslims. He was in the top 0.001% of wealth and entitlement.

Investments include the Taliban, and a group of extremists who worked under the radar.

No OBL, no WTC1 or 2, no terror.

P N Dr Lo R says

Dan8267 says

Science got us to the moon

but can't tell us why people love the moonlight or why the moon is memorizlized in more poetry and songs than any body in the heavens.

Neither can religion.

Root causes:
1) Religion is brainwashing and has the power to shift people's natural thoughts on morality far from the natural state of things. Major religions were written many centuries ago, and there are some draconian things in our 'holy' books.
2) Tribalism and the human desire to model themselves after others in their local group goes hand in hand with religion, and funnels people into the local mosques.
3) The whims of people running local religions are hard to predict. If some 'bad dudes' run the show for a while, things can get out of control.
4) The West has a history of meddling in the middle east, and it is easy for people in the Middle East to blame the West. Leaders often scape goat enemies to garner support, so it is no surprise that our misdeeds have been exaggerated and presented as inherently evil.
5) When you mix #4 and #3, you are bound to get war once in a while.
6) There is no symmetry in our warfare capabilities. Terrorism is kind of a refuge of people who are out of other options. Even monkey's take part in terrorism to protect themselves from bigger foes. If a big monkey bullies a smaller monkey, the smaller monkey will often hurt one of the bigger monkey's family and make sure that the bigger monkey is watching. This is to let him know that the smaller monkey can hurt him if he persists with his bullying. So really, there is nothing new here.

P N Dr Lo R says

but can't tell us why people love the moonlight or why the moon is memorizlized in more poetry and songs than any body in the heavens. It can tell the how of the rainbow but not why the rainbow resonates with peoples hearts and souls, something you don't believe in.

The moon helped people see at night. The moon changes with time and is interesting to watch. People made up stories / belief systems to explain this. Rainbows are rare and seem very mysterious (before you know the science), so it seems magical.

To some people, science ruins the 'magic' and destroys the belief systems, and those people dislike science for that. Others think it is fascinating and love to know why things happen and be able to predict other things. Those people love science. Science cannot tell us why we love the moon, stars, and rainbows, but it's not to hard to figure out. More curious people are now more infatuated by the unknowns of today than the moon and rainbows.

Dan8267 says

And what causes the lack of sex? Faith.

Polygamy. Too few rich dudes taking all the bitches. That's why the biggest ISIS joiners are middle class: Too poor to buy a wife or bring in an Indonesian "Maid" (and no home of their own to bring her to); younger sons ran out of female cousins to marry.

Arabs basically all live off one or two patriarchs who control all the family/clan wealth, too. So their sex life is under his control as well.

Often, going on Jihad raises one's value, too. And worst case, you get your 72 Virgins and often your family gets big bucks if you die a Martyr.

That's why Israel bulldozes homes of terrorists, so when they get their blood money from terrorist orgs, it only puts them back where they were.

We should be subjecting Mateen's possessions to Forfeiture

I think the OP is really asking two questions that he's tried over-simplifying into one. There is the root cause being discussed here, which I believe is true in the more radicalized sects of Islam. That all non-believers must be killed all the time.
But the root cause that Americans should care about isn't that. The second root cause, what we should be focused on, is that endless war destroys countries, communities, and lives, and literally begs people to radicalize. How would you feel if some war-mongering, imperialist country that your country never sent a single solider to started bombing the shit out of your village, recruiting and training radical militants, armed them, then allowed them to run roughshod over what was left after the bombings, THEN started droning and bombing, while the radical militants that THEY trained, ran around cutting everyone's dick off, cooked 'em in a giant weiner roast, and made you eat them while shouting "Alah Akbar" at the top of your lungs while pieces of some dudes cooked penis fly out of your mouth, hitting your daughters in the face?

Now THAT'S fucking root cause!

NuttBoxer says

But the root cause that Americans should care about isn't that. The second root cause, what we should be focused on, is that endless war destroys countries, communities, and lives, and literally begs people to radicalize. How would you feel if some war-mongering, imperialist country that your country never sent a single solider to started bombing the shit out of your village, recruiting and training radical militants, armed them, then allowed them to run roughshod over what was left after the bombings, THEN started droning and bombing, while the radical militants that THEY trained, ran around cutting everyone's dick off, cooked 'em in a giant weiner roast, and made you eat them while shouting "Alah Akbar" at the top of your lungs while pieces of some dudes cooked penis fly out of your mouth, hitting your daughters in the face?

Now THAT'S fucking root cause!

What you mention is not the root cause of terrorism. It's the result of terrorism.
Figure out what was the root cause of Islamic terror before America was discovered. And you may have your answer.

Tim Aurora says

That does not mean that they are unnecessay and should be destroyed.

Support the assertion that religion is necessary. Tell me what good comes from it that cannot come from better sources.

P N Dr Lo R says

Dan8267 says

Science got us to the moon

but can't tell us why people love the moonlight or why the moon is memorizlized in more poetry and songs than any body in the heavens. It can tell the how of the rainbow but not why the rainbow resonates with peoples hearts and souls, something you don't believe in

Bullshit. Of course science can and does explain these things. You are just ignorant of it.

In any case, art does all that as well without requiring the irrationality and delusions of religion. No one ever flew planes into buildings or waged a crusade because of an art project.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

Polygamy. Too few rich dudes taking all the bitches.

You mean the few dudes that became rich by using religion and made polygamy the norm by using that same religion?

Strategist says

What you mention is not the root cause of terrorism. It's the result of terrorism.

Figure out what was the root cause of Islamic terror before America was discovered. And you may have your answer.

Your reply lacks any supporting evidence. Islam has been in existence for thousands of years. We've only started bitching about terrorism since 2000.

When did we start bombing the Middle East again...? When did we train Al-Quaeda? When did we train Isis?

Obama and couple pallets of cash worth about 50 billion dollars.

It's a shame all those terrorists are hiding what's left of one of the most beautiful products of capitalist America--a pity it had to come to this at only five years old.

Only capitalism can make this:

Why does any man
Do anything
In the whole damn world?

Cause there's a girl

Strategist says

Neither can religion

Who said it did?