patrick.net

Drumming, similarly to guitar, is a lot about the rhythm and feel vs pure wanking. Most progressive rock drummers and some guitarist have no own rhythm, Voivod's drummer does. So does Tiamat's Lars Skold:

https://youtu.be/iB9YYC-8jwY?si=7nb_2cDQecx7kLq-

The only 3 drummers known to me where playing like a clockwork work in favor of their music are Lars Ulrich, Mike Portnoi and the dude from Fear Factory.

WookieMan says

If you're not a drummer, it's impossible to comprehend how difficult this song is to play AND sing.

That's true for any instrument. If you need to play more serious stuff, don't sing

AmericanKulak says

What Pearl Jam sounds like to the people who don't like it (including myself):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ZX4O-Efao

PJ sucks donkey balls lol, 100% agree

mell says

WookieMan says

If you're not a drummer, it's impossible to comprehend how difficult this song is to play AND sing.

That's true for any instrument. If you need to play more serious stuff, don't sing

What? Not true at all. Moving a pick on one hand and playing chords is nothing. No one sings in a solo. My voice sucks, but I could do it and I don't play guitar often. You just stand there as a guitar player or bassist. Piano/keys you memorize it like a computer keyboard, easy.

Move four limbs and sing and let me know how it goes as the backbone of the band? Been there done it man. Not picking a fight Mell, but you're 100% wrong. If you can type you can play guitar and keys no problem if you have a brain. Bass is for retards that hopefully have rhythm. Drums are a different animal. We'd swap instruments at shows. My guitarists, bass and keyboard guy ate shit on the drums and didn't sing. Being an above average guitar play is way easier than being an above average drummer.

I'm literally in demand to play. There are no drummers. It's not easy at all and then throw in singing? It's nuts. I'm going to record and might start jamming with a couple other musicians again.

WookieMan says

Move four limbs and sing and let me know how it goes as the backbone of the band?

It's the same for other instruments. While bass is the easiest to play and sing, it's only because most bands have traditional simple bass lines. As soon as you start funking and slapping or playing bass solos like crazy, playing and singing is equally difficult. That's why RHCP have their own vocalist and bass player, why Les Claypool usually alternates difficult bass lines and singing, why John Myung and Jon Petrucci or Jordan Rudess, all beasts on their respective instruments bass and guitar and keyboard, don't sing. Same difference

Yeah, big diff between plucking eighth notes or walking around endlessly in A,D,E succession and actually funkin around the one with some variation

This ain't no bum bum bum bum bah bah bah bah dun dun dun dun

Psychotic Bump School
https://youtu.be/SEyAjt-Cbh8?si=obKSCjxQdwUfl2DC&t=105

mell says

That's why RHCP have their own vocalist and bass player, why Les Claypool usually alternates difficult bass lines and singing, why John Myung and Jon Petrucci or Jordan Rudess, all beasts on their respective instruments bass and guitar and keyboard, don't sing. Same difference

Move four limbs and sing. My point stands. Mute a cymbal in the middle of a fill and sing the song basically spot on for a cover. There's a reason there are no drummers. It's way harder as an instrument. As I said, bass, guitar and keys are like learning a keyboard that's labeled.

I presume those active on this site have not played live and probably just tinker around? I've toured regionally. Singing while playing drums well is waaaaaay more difficult than any other instrument.

In all fairness, people are slowly coming around to realizing how great Phil Collins is. And all the old myths busted, like he was jealous of Peter Gabriel. In reality, the other members of Genesis had to coax him into the front man role when Gabriel left. Amazing to see Phil keep complex beats going and singing at the same time.

AmericanKulak says

Amazing to see Phil keep complex beats going and singing at the same time.

Exactly. Give this a listen. The Phil part comes in later. I'll continue to say it Umphreys is the best band on the planet. Slightly biased, but you can't deny this if you know how to play. Studio, but he sings it while playing the Phil Collins part.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DoJtaou9lz-s&ved=2ahUKEwjlwtzI99aJAxUfj4kEHRilAjEQz40FegQIDxAI&usg=AOvVaw392iURBDWnM06UTtdTmsH3

AmericanKulak says

In all fairness, people are slowly coming around to realizing how great Phil Collins is

Massive librard. Also so overplayed that I can't stand his music anymore anyway.

Re: the drum dialog. This guy is an entertaining show-off. Never heard him with a band tho.
I agree with Wook re all-limb-plus-voice-engagement, it can seem astonishing. When Levon was handling lead vocals his drumming seemed reduced to time keeping.
https://www.youtube.com/@ElEsteparioSiberiano/shorts

Robert Sproul says

Re: the drum dialog. This guy is an entertaining show-off. Never heard him with a band tho.

I only did it once, but it worked for my voice singing live. Werewolves of London, Warren Zevon cover. Basic beat but throw in singing and it's extremely difficult. That's why you don't see that many drummers that sing.

Tool's Four-six & two is nuts to drum and sing to live as a drummer. Danny Carey is top notch but doesn't sing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FssULNGSZIA

6 strings or 4 strings on a fret board is kind of trivial. Same with keys. There's so much more to drums than people realize. There are simple drummers link Ringo, which is more my style. Over complicating it can be annoying. But when a top notch drummer nails it, I don't think anyone realizes how long and hard they had to work on that.

The 10,000 hour rule doesn't work on drums. You need at least 30-50k hours to be considered good. Learn different styles. Different drum set ups. I'm a C+ drummer if you were to grade me. Not great not bad. Good studio work. But I tended to have too much fun at live shows is all I'll say.