patrick.net

stereotomy says

my subs reproduced the sound of a heavy truck driving through the neighborhood of the recording studio.

It's almost impossible to stop exterior noise is the problem. Even at the best studio. I'm going to make an attempt in my drum room. Beside the drum carpet, all hard surfaces for natural reverb. It's going to be in a basement, so no vents or ducts are needed.

Doubling up the walls with an air gap and double insulation and I think double drywall. For sure on the ceiling. I'd like to be able to play at night and not bother everyone. Door will be the biggest issue. Drywall and insulation are relatively cheap. Sound proofing a door could get expensive. Might do a double door setup. That's $2k on the cheap end.

Hoping for a 32 channel setup for when the old bandmates are in town to record. I'm going to be doing an ungodly amount of low voltage and XLR runs. 70V set up for whole home sound. 30-40 speakers with a separate outdoor setup. We already have 11 TV's. I'm shooting for a 220" movie screen. Looking at 13.2 Atmos receivers. Speakers are another question. I also don't need to get divorced. Gonna leave my theater stuff in the old house for my mom. If I can get a $10-15k budget, I think I could do pretty good.

Jam room is probably more expensive. I miss playing my drums though so that's the priority. I guess I'm an audiophile? I'm building this forever house once and not screwing it up. Plus my oldest is a band nerd playing saxophone. Youngest was doing guitar/ukulele for a while. Liked it. I'm not the type to force things though. If he wants it he'll get after it.

Wowzer. I went on a rant there.

I got to 80-90% of awesome and stopped there. Ultimately, it depends on 1) how old you are, and 2) how much money you have to drop on the 0.001% shit.

I've always done music, even if it was a primary hobby and not my "career." I'm handy with skills, so I can build stuff, program things, etc. If I had to pay someone to do what I did, it would be nearly 6 figures - I did it for barely 5 figures, not paying myself for brain or brawn.

I think the best way to approach things is to have relatively concrete goals going into it. These can be modified if you determine that they're ultimately infeasible. Case in point - the bigger the room, the better everything sounds. Everything in most homes is nearfield sound reproduction. Look up stuff about room modes (Geddes, some JBL papers) and the difference between diffusion and absorption. Sound is a lot like water - completely filtered, zero trace minerals water tastes like shit, but the proper inclusion of minerals makes water taste "sweet." A dead room is a creepy room, but a little diffusion lightens things up. Figure out whether you need "tactile" bass, and if so, look into shakers, vibration platforms (like the AVS "hooverbass") and the like.

"Arnold Corns"(Bowie) songs that were recorded then re-done for "Ziggy Stardust".

These first versions are much more 60s rock/psychedlic than the Ziggy album.:

Hang on To Yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi5R0ulokHE

Moonage Daydream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsH95qmmr9g

From Poland, Tulia - "Nothing Else Matters" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09NqLjHJtGQ -
One of the best renditions...

https://youtu.be/4VDS8uArR0A?si=C_lgHs2t7_CEyeMZ

The days of Pearly Spencer

Vennu Mallesh - It's My Life What Ever I Wanna Do (Very Good Bad Boy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJa2kwoZ2a4

Lee Greenwood - Some Velvet Morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=670YMraVnyk

Meat Puppets - Lake of Fire (Original version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XI98pbS7TA

It changed the face of American music and thus music worldwide. It has touched grunge, nu-metal, punk, art-punk, pop, Radiohead and a thousand other genres where white men play guitars. Listen to the radio–Marquee Moon is everywhere.
— John Aizlewood (Q, 2003)[62]

The whole album is brilliant.

Marquee Moon title track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4myghLPLZc&list=PLyIhNZsfiY8T1VQnCGwCtb7bZ0fJ1hsCy&index=4

Elevation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke0e0IyvMXc&list=PLyIhNZsfiY8T1VQnCGwCtb7bZ0fJ1hsCy&index=6

Holy Shit: "My Way" and a Hippie Freak

This blew my mind.

The original, a tune from 60s France, typical croony French Love Song about having a losing a woman ... "Even a Fool Learns to Love"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnbqMKs4QN0

EMI had the music rights, and in 1967 bid out for English lyrics.

Two people answered. Paul Anka, and a little known Mystery Hippie who had yet to chart and needed a few bucks to live.

You can of course guess which one was chosen:
Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, to few to mention...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQzdAsjWGPg

The other one ended up rejected, but appeared heavily modified to avoid lawsuits, on Mystery Hippie's third album that sold disappointingly before his breakthrough as "Ziggy".

It's a godawful small affair, to the Girl with the Mousey Hair...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3b1-Cm-0M

Metallica: I Wanna Be Adored (Manchester, 2019)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW11nrX2WxE

https://youtu.be/FKFHHS4RQW0?si=S4oC57awUrTIuSwr

All night long

What Pearl Jam sounds like to the people who don't like it (including myself):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ZX4O-Efao

Also: "Heckame broken, broooo-ken, Heckame broken crockerayyyyy" is the other one I hear.

And "Eskimoooo, Eskimooooo make iglooouuuuu"

I used to call it the Foghorn Front Man band.

AmericanKulak says

What Pearl Jam sounds like to the people who don't like it (including myself):

I've always liked the instrumentation from the band. Vedder's vocals are trash though. Totally incoherent. Voice isn't bad, but he's speaking a different language.

I haven't seen them live but I guess he is an ass hole on politics as well at shows. Get elected buddy. A majority of your fan base is 50% plus conservative with money. Live shows are probably how they make money now and maybe get shitty residuals from old record deals. Obviously a millionaire, but just play music. I don't talk politics at work.

I hate it when musicians, athletes and actors get out of their element. Stick to what you know and not what you're told.

Voivod's Tribal Convictions, not just a drumming masterpiece:

https://youtu.be/yAI7gWFbvMM?si=qfA8-kKeFzMa3TdF

AmericanKulak says

Holy Shit: "My Way" and a Hippie Freak

This blew my mind.

The original, a tune from 60s France, typical croony French Love Song about having a losing a woman ... "Even a Fool Learns to Love"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnbqMKs4QN0

EMI had the music rights, and in 1967 bid out for English lyrics.

Two people answered. Paul Anka, and a little known Mystery Hippie who had yet to chart and needed a few bucks to live.

You can of course guess which one was chosen:
Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, to few to mention...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQzdAsjWGPg

I actually played in an Elvis Clone band, and that was always a crowd pleaser. All fake, so much is fake.

mell says

Voivod's Tribal Convictions, not just a drumming masterpiece:

https://youtu.be/yAI7gWFbvMM?si=qfA8-kKeFzMa3TdF

Eh. Not wanting to get into arguments on this thread but that was above average at best on drums.

I think I've posted this one before but just listened to it again. About the only drummer I've watched and personally know on the planet that can play and sing this cover as tight as he does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmC1LmDdp5g

If you're not a drummer, it's impossible to comprehend how difficult this song is to play AND sing. It's level 11. There's not a drummer on the planet that can play that and sing it as good. Glad I got to witness it. *not my video. I'm off to the right though in the crowd down lower.

As a music thread, if you haven't seen a show at Red Rocks you're an idiot. Not trying to be an ass, but get the plane ticket and go or drive there. You'll thank me if you haven't been. Unless the band sucks. Covid screwed up my shows, but I might get out there in June 2025. If you're in the lower lot to the East, pay the taxi unless you're looking for a solid workout. I really mean solid. Between booze, drugs and altitude, you'll be on your ass in no time if you walk it.

Good drummers are as rare as hen's teeth. You'd think that OK, just hold the fucking beat.

The only thing that's rarer than a good drummer is a good keyboard player. Fortunately, I'm one. They hate me, but they need me.

Drumming, similarly to guitar, is a lot about the rhythm and feel vs pure wanking. Most progressive rock drummers and some guitarist have no own rhythm, Voivod's drummer does. So does Tiamat's Lars Skold:

https://youtu.be/iB9YYC-8jwY?si=7nb_2cDQecx7kLq-

The only 3 drummers known to me where playing like a clockwork work in favor of their music are Lars Ulrich, Mike Portnoi and the dude from Fear Factory.

WookieMan says

If you're not a drummer, it's impossible to comprehend how difficult this song is to play AND sing.

That's true for any instrument. If you need to play more serious stuff, don't sing

AmericanKulak says

What Pearl Jam sounds like to the people who don't like it (including myself):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ZX4O-Efao

PJ sucks donkey balls lol, 100% agree

mell says

WookieMan says

If you're not a drummer, it's impossible to comprehend how difficult this song is to play AND sing.

That's true for any instrument. If you need to play more serious stuff, don't sing

What? Not true at all. Moving a pick on one hand and playing chords is nothing. No one sings in a solo. My voice sucks, but I could do it and I don't play guitar often. You just stand there as a guitar player or bassist. Piano/keys you memorize it like a computer keyboard, easy.

Move four limbs and sing and let me know how it goes as the backbone of the band? Been there done it man. Not picking a fight Mell, but you're 100% wrong. If you can type you can play guitar and keys no problem if you have a brain. Bass is for retards that hopefully have rhythm. Drums are a different animal. We'd swap instruments at shows. My guitarists, bass and keyboard guy ate shit on the drums and didn't sing. Being an above average guitar play is way easier than being an above average drummer.

I'm literally in demand to play. There are no drummers. It's not easy at all and then throw in singing? It's nuts. I'm going to record and might start jamming with a couple other musicians again.

WookieMan says

Move four limbs and sing and let me know how it goes as the backbone of the band?

It's the same for other instruments. While bass is the easiest to play and sing, it's only because most bands have traditional simple bass lines. As soon as you start funking and slapping or playing bass solos like crazy, playing and singing is equally difficult. That's why RHCP have their own vocalist and bass player, why Les Claypool usually alternates difficult bass lines and singing, why John Myung and Jon Petrucci or Jordan Rudess, all beasts on their respective instruments bass and guitar and keyboard, don't sing. Same difference

Yeah, big diff between plucking eighth notes or walking around endlessly in A,D,E succession and actually funkin around the one with some variation

This ain't no bum bum bum bum bah bah bah bah dun dun dun dun

Psychotic Bump School
https://youtu.be/SEyAjt-Cbh8?si=obKSCjxQdwUfl2DC&t=105

mell says

That's why RHCP have their own vocalist and bass player, why Les Claypool usually alternates difficult bass lines and singing, why John Myung and Jon Petrucci or Jordan Rudess, all beasts on their respective instruments bass and guitar and keyboard, don't sing. Same difference

Move four limbs and sing. My point stands. Mute a cymbal in the middle of a fill and sing the song basically spot on for a cover. There's a reason there are no drummers. It's way harder as an instrument. As I said, bass, guitar and keys are like learning a keyboard that's labeled.

I presume those active on this site have not played live and probably just tinker around? I've toured regionally. Singing while playing drums well is waaaaaay more difficult than any other instrument.

In all fairness, people are slowly coming around to realizing how great Phil Collins is. And all the old myths busted, like he was jealous of Peter Gabriel. In reality, the other members of Genesis had to coax him into the front man role when Gabriel left. Amazing to see Phil keep complex beats going and singing at the same time.

AmericanKulak says

Amazing to see Phil keep complex beats going and singing at the same time.

Exactly. Give this a listen. The Phil part comes in later. I'll continue to say it Umphreys is the best band on the planet. Slightly biased, but you can't deny this if you know how to play. Studio, but he sings it while playing the Phil Collins part.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DoJtaou9lz-s&ved=2ahUKEwjlwtzI99aJAxUfj4kEHRilAjEQz40FegQIDxAI&usg=AOvVaw392iURBDWnM06UTtdTmsH3

AmericanKulak says

In all fairness, people are slowly coming around to realizing how great Phil Collins is

Massive librard. Also so overplayed that I can't stand his music anymore anyway.

Re: the drum dialog. This guy is an entertaining show-off. Never heard him with a band tho.
I agree with Wook re all-limb-plus-voice-engagement, it can seem astonishing. When Levon was handling lead vocals his drumming seemed reduced to time keeping.
https://www.youtube.com/@ElEsteparioSiberiano/shorts

Robert Sproul says

Re: the drum dialog. This guy is an entertaining show-off. Never heard him with a band tho.

I only did it once, but it worked for my voice singing live. Werewolves of London, Warren Zevon cover. Basic beat but throw in singing and it's extremely difficult. That's why you don't see that many drummers that sing.

Tool's Four-six & two is nuts to drum and sing to live as a drummer. Danny Carey is top notch but doesn't sing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FssULNGSZIA

6 strings or 4 strings on a fret board is kind of trivial. Same with keys. There's so much more to drums than people realize. There are simple drummers link Ringo, which is more my style. Over complicating it can be annoying. But when a top notch drummer nails it, I don't think anyone realizes how long and hard they had to work on that.

The 10,000 hour rule doesn't work on drums. You need at least 30-50k hours to be considered good. Learn different styles. Different drum set ups. I'm a C+ drummer if you were to grade me. Not great not bad. Good studio work. But I tended to have too much fun at live shows is all I'll say.

Yeah, REM…

Ladies and Gentlemen, The Clique.

Sugar on Sundays

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQVTVkmCAAQ

Superman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQVTVkmCAAQ

Booger says

Massive librard. Also so overplayed that I can't stand his music anymore anyway.

He was overplayed 30+ years ago. But give the man technical props.

Now the most overrated band.

Moog Space Disco Night

Space: Magic Fly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZavwtJxmqJI

Dee D. Jackson - Automatic Lover
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTFCwKvlKZo

Charlier - Spacer Woman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZDPCjEoIMI