patrick.net

Goran_K says

I believe Americans should have weaponry necessary to the preservation of a free state. I do not think Nuclear weapons, Biological weapons fall under this statement.

Then you are a delusional fool. If the American public had to rebel against the federal government to restore freedom, they would need weapons that could level Cheyenne mountain. That's at least a MOAB if not a nuke.

The American citizens would need tanks, land mines, rocket-powered grenades, supersonic aircraft, and aircraft carriers to fight the federal government, which has all of these things in abundance.

Only the biggest fool in the world thinks that unfunded civilians with guns can take on a trillion dollar a year war machine. It would be a masquerader if you even tried to take on a state government with the pitiful guns you have. Don't believe me, try it. You'll find out how quick suicide by cop is.

The idea that men with pistols and AK-47s could overthrow a corrupt federal government is a ridiculous fantasy. Those weapons don't work on the Apache helicopters that kill your family from miles away using
- 30 mm articulated cannons
- 1,200 high-explosive rounds fire in less than 2 minutes
- 70 mm rockets that can be guided or unguided
- Hellfire missiles that can identify, track, and hunt targets that are miles away, even in the dead of night

Yeah, you really stand a fucking chance. An eight-year-old gamer could take out your entire resistance in five minutes with one of these.

Goran_K says

Dan8267 says

Some of us respect the Constitution and the principles of our country including the 14th Amendment.

But not the 2nd?

Like I said, the Second Amendment is defunct. If it weren't, you could have land mines, Hellfire missles, ICBMs, and nukes.

So yes, I have no respect for the Second Amendment. It would be a death sentence to the entire human race if applied today, and you clearly realize that. The founding fathers weren't so fucking stupid that they would think of applying it to our time. No one is that stupid.

I respect the entire rest of the Constitution, which still applies, or at least should, today.

Dan8267 says

Then you are a delusional fool. If the American public had to rebel against the federal government to restore freedom, they would need weapons that could level Cheyenne mountain. That's at least a MOAB if not a nuke.

The American citizens would need tanks, land mines, rocket-powered grenades, supersonic aircraft, and aircraft carriers to fight the federal government, which has all of these things in abundance.

Only the biggest fool in the world thinks that unfunded civilians with guns can take on a trillion dollar a year war machine. It would be a masquerader if you even tried to take on a state government with the pitiful guns you have. Don't believe me, try it. You'll find out how quick suicide by cop is.

The idea that men with pistols and AK-47s could overthrow a corrupt federal government is a ridiculous fantasy. Those weapons don't work on the Apache helicopters that kill your family from miles away using

- 30 mm articulated cannons

- 1,200 h...

Just like the might of that $1 trillion dollar machine was able to do so to Al Qaeda, ISIS, Al Nusra, which eventually lead to the downfall of Islamic Extremism all over the world.

Goran_K says

No, once they deploy Apaches, you use your AR15 to go attack an arms depot, and you get some stingers.

That has to be the stupidest thing you have said so far. By then, it's too late. A government that is cracking down on its civilian population isn't going to let that population obtain arms that would threaten it. If the damn local gun store doesn't carry stingers now, then it isn't going to get them when the tanks start rolling.

Dan8267 says

That has to be the stupidest thing you have said so far. By then, it's too late. A government that is cracking down on its civilian population isn't going to let that population obtain arms that would threaten it. If the damn local gun store doesn't carry stingers now, then it isn't going to get them when the tanks start rolling.

So ISIS, Al Qaeda, running around with all those tricked out M4s, shoulder mounted anti-armor missiles, M1 Abrams tanks, and artillery created that themselves? I thought they captured them...

Goran_K says

5,000 armed citizens could absolutely take a weapons depot.

Any tyrannical state would simply simply kill all 5,000 armed citizens and destroy the depot using a missile or the MOAB. This would be trivial for our federal government to do. This is what would happen to your armed rebellion.

www.youtube.com/embed/j0BG_GBOFTw

Our government has no problem using such weapons for "their psychological effect" or what is commonly referred to as terrorism, the infliction of terror into a population to coerce submission. They use such weapons precisely to convince the opposition that there is no hope for victory. They would gladly use it to kill your rebel scum just to turn those rebels into an example for the rest of the population.

Dan8267 says

Our government has no problem using such weapons for "their psychological effect" or what is commonly referred to as terrorism, the infliction of terror into a population to coerce submission. They use such weapons precisely to convince the opposition that there is no hope for victory. They would gladly use it to kill your rebel scum just to turn those rebels into an example for the rest of the population.

Historically, Operation Linebacker only emboldened Vietnamese resistance.

Goran_K says

I would engage in guerrilla warfare and target convoys.

You would die in the first week when some navy seal sniper shoots your head off. No matter how tyrannical the government was, you'd be made out to be a terrorist and the guy who murdered you would be made out to be a hero. Strategist would be singing that guy's praises. That's reality.

Dan8267 says

You would die in the first week when some navy seal sniper shoots your head off. No matter how tyrannical the government was, you'd be made out to be a terrorist and the guy who murdered you would be made out to be a hero. Strategist would be singing that guy's praises. That's reality.

I wouldn't be around when the IED went off. How would he shoot my head off?

Goran_K says

Just like the might of that $1 trillion dollar machine was able to do so to Al Qaeda, ISIS, Al Nusra, which eventually lead to the downfall of Islamic Extremism all over the world.

New York City and Afghanistan are very different places. And the federal government, like all power structures, will do far more to defend itself from an existential threat like domestic rebellion than some minor threat like ISIS, and yes, ISIS is a minor threat compared to an American rebellion.

In any case, ISIS isn't ever going to take down the U.S. government. The very idea is ridiculous. You are claiming the ability to take down that very government with some guns and stingers, which you can't have under your own rules. You conceded that you would not let Americans buy stingers today.

Dan8267 says

New York City and Afghanistan are very different places. And the federal government, like all power structures, will do far more to defend itself from an existential threat like domestic rebellion than some minor threat like ISIS, and yes, ISIS is a minor threat compared to an American rebellion.

In any case, ISIS isn't ever going to take down the U.S. government. The very idea is ridiculous. You are claiming the ability to take down that very government with some guns and stingers, which you can't have under your own rules. You conceded that you would not let Americans buy stingers today.

All of that hardware could be taken. If ISIS was able to steal M1 Abrams tanks, then Stingers would certainly be possible.

Also, the majority of the military is not only right wing conservative but also believers in the 2nd Amendment. 60% + of the military would side with the rebels against a Democrat leftist despot confiscating arms.

Goran_K says

Also, the majority of the military is not only right wing conservative but also believers in the 2nd Amendment.

Whether or not they believe in the Second Amendment is irrelevant. They will still kill you and your entire family when given the order, and they would do so with a smile on their face. If you think the military is going to side with the rebels when they are attacked by those rebels while defending a weapons depot, you are batshit crazy. You are a terrorist to them regardless of how right you are. You are a criminal to the police force as well. The government would enforce law and order and curfews, and arrest you as a criminal or kill you as a terrorist without a second thought. And there is nothing you could do about it. You are fantasizing.

Dan8267 says

Whether or not they believe in the Second Amendment is irrelevant. They will still kill you and your entire family when given the order, and they would do so with a smile on their face. If you think the military is going to side with the rebels when they are attacked by those rebels while defending a weapons depot, you are batshit crazy. You are a terrorist to them regardless of how right you are. You are a criminal to the police force as well. The government would enforce law and order and curfews, and arrest you as a criminal or kill you as a terrorist without a second thought. And there is nothing you could do about it. You are fantasizing.

Yes they would shoot ME dead, but would they shoot their brother, or father, best friend? This is the type of dilemma many faced during the 1st Civil War as families chose sides on either the Union or Confederate side.

Goran_K says

Yes they would shoot ME dead, but would they shoot their brother, or father, best friend?

They won't have to. You'll be oppressed, the keys to power won't be.

Liberals support repeal of second amendment, go live in North Korea and see how that kind of society works out.

I would think that here in Baltimore, an AK-47 wouldn't be enough. I'd need a M-134

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/26/politics/baltimore-crime-fbi-help/index.html

Baltimore asks FBI for help: 'Murder is out of control'

Then the stupid mayor blames guns.

Goran_K says

You've presented many "opinions", including stories about suitcase nuclear weapons.

How the fuck is the possibility of a suitcase size nuclear weapon an "opinion"? It is a reality. Just because that reality makes your proposition ridiculously dangerous does not mean it's not a reality.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a suitcase size nuclear weapon is impossible to make today? The Pentagon strongly disagrees with you. It's been a threat on their radar for decades.

Goran_K says

But you still haven't explained why the 20th century is replete with governments that have gone usurpatious and began their despotic reigns with arms confiscations.

Some X did Y therefore everyone who does X will do Y. This is your fallacy. Expressed mathematically it's

I should not have to explain to anyone why this predicate is wrong, but evidently I have to.

There are tyrants who wear mustaches. Therefore, all people with mustaches are tyrants. This is mathematically equivalent to what you are saying. It's obviously wrong.

I could apply your false theorem to a great many things. All tyrannical regimes tax their populations to support themselves. The U.S. government taxes its population to support itself. Therefore, the United States government is a tyrannical regime. So why aren't you fighting to overthrow it right now?

Criminals use guns to commit violent crimes like rape, murder, and robbery. Therefore all persons possessing guns are criminals who rape, murder, and rope. Therefore all guns should be banned. See, it works against your political agenda just as well as it supports your political agenda. That's the thing about false theorems; they can easily be used to both prove and disprove the same statement precisely because they are false.

And again, you are avoiding a core issue. There is nothing special about guns. Nothing. Every government, tyrannical or not, is also going to prevent its citizens from having land mines, tanks, RPGs, stinger missiles, nukes, and biological weapons. Does any government preventing citizens from having these weapons make that government tyrannical? Then why the fuck guns? What's so god damn special about guns that makes it different from any other weapon that has ever or will ever be created? Nothing. Any dogmatic statement that you make about guns, you'd better be able to defend applying to all other weapons including nukes.

FortWayne says

Liberals support repeal of second amendment, go live in North Korea and see how that kind of society works out.

False equivalency. North Korea is a tyrannical state because the government is not answerable to the people by law. The policies that made North Korea or any other tyrannical state oppressive are exactly the kind of policies implemented by the USA Patriotic Act and the NDAA. Every executive power signed into law is a step towards greater tyranny. Every liberal policy distributing power to the common man, creating transparency, and limiting the use and power of police forces and the military is a step away from tyranny. North Korea is what America would become if Republican polices were left unchecked and unchallenged.

Dan8267 says

That would happen in America as well.

I have walked around town with a sheathed 22 inch fiskars clearing machete on my belt and have never been shot, or looked at with a discerning eye. Maybe in your City Metro area where everyone cries and screams when they see a picture of a long blade or gun. Not everywhere is like where you live though, surprising as that may sound.

I don't want to talk about another tangent. I want to know why you think an unarmed populace is a good check against Tyranny.

That's like saying having a "Gun Free Zone" sign is a deterrent to a potential mass shooter.

Lashkar_i_Trumpi says

Ghandi was irrelevant after 1942. He was also a major bigot against blacks and Jews and Sikhs. The latter in particular is never contextualized in popular histories of Ghandi, why he embraced Muslims but hated Sikhism.

Exactly. Without the INA and other nationalist leaders, Ghandi is a foot note in history. Leftist love Ghandi because of the ideas he represented, but the reality on the ground was that Ghandi's actual contributions towards the independence movement were very small, if not completely inconsequential.

Goran_K says

Yanukovych himself publicly said he left Kiev because he feared for the safety of himself and his family, and that his car had been hit by automatic weapons fire as he left the city. So he left under the threat of force which sinks your point. Remember, not my words, those are Yanukovych's own words to the BBC after he fled Kiev.

This is most probably a lie. He left because the police withdrew. And police withdrew after being shot at from Conservatory building. Once the fight stopped being so one-sided they suddenly decided it's not really worth it.

Straw Man says

This is most probably a lie. He left because the police withdrew. And police withdrew after being shot at from Conservatory building. Once fight stopped being so one-sided they suddenly decided it's not really worth it.

Could be. I'm no fan of Yanukovych, and I have no doubt he "colored" the details of him having to retreat from Kiev. But calling Ukraine 2014 a revolution without a single shot fired seems like a big stretch (if not outright lie).

Goran_K says

Straw Man says

This is most probably a lie. He left because the police withdrew. And police withdrew after being shot at from Conservatory building. Once fight stopped being so one-sided they suddenly decided it's not really worth it.

Could be. I'm no fan of Yanukovych, and I have no doubt he "colored" the details of him having to retreat from Kiev. But calling Ukraine 2014 a revolution without a single shot fired seems like a big stretch (if not outright lie).

Shots were most definitely fired. There were no policemen killed by any means until Feb18. And then in 2 days at least 17 were killed by gunfire. On Feb 22 regime was no more.

There are THOUSANDS of laws in this country restricting gun ownership. California has the most restrictive laws in the nation. What the hell, exactly, do the Anti-gunners want?
Bearing in mind that the Assault Weapons Ban of ’94 was found to not effect the crime rate whatsoever, which new prohibitive law is supposed to get Black-inner-city-young-men to quit shooting each other?

Goran_K says

That's why I don't vote democrat.

You are a fool if you think Republicans are more likely to prevent tyranny. Republicans are the greatest advocates of torturing and murdering people in the name of "national security" and revoking the right of habeas corpus. They threaten your freedom far more than Democrats.

Goran_K says

You don't think 10,000,000 armed Americans could successfully over throw the government?

10,000,000 armed Americans could not even overthrow a state, nonetheless the federal government. Ten million men does not even equal a single aircraft carrier. You might as well have one billion cavemen vs the U.S. military. It would be a masquerader. Numbers mean nothing compare to technology.

And just think about the logistics of 10 million rebels collaborating over battle plans in a way that doesn't make them a centralized target. You can either have all independent cells with little collaboration, or a well-organize strike-force with a central command that can be attacked directly. The first is not an effective mechanism for overthrowing centralized power. At best, it can engage in terrorism for decades being a sore spot, and likely uniting the people under the government no matter how tyrannical it is. The latter is exactly the kind of opposition our military is best at destroying as it only has to cut off the head.

Goran_K says

Democrat slave owners got their asses kicked by Republicans. That's how it worked out.

And then those Democrat slave owners, also called Dixiecrats, became Republicans with Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy and later the Tea Party and finally the Freedom Caucus, while the Republicans of that day became the Democrats of today.

However, it's nice of you to admit that the American South and the conservative right are the bad guys. They certainly are regardless of which party they control.

It's also nice to see you acknowledge, even though you aren't smart enough to realize you did, that liberals are the good guys. We liberals were all in the Republican Party back in the 19th century. After the Southern Strategy allowed the conservative right to take over the Republican Party, all liberals were ejected from that party and went Democrat for lack of alternative in a two party system. We liberals often say, "We didn't leave the Republican Party; the Republican Party left us.".

Here's a picture of a liberal Republican from before the Southern Strategy that would not be welcomed in today's Republican Party and absolutely would be a Democrat today.

Dan8267 says

Numbers mean nothing compare to technology.

Except the US military has not successfully put down an insurrection since the Philippines.
When they were riding freaking horses

Dan8267 says

nd then those Democrat slave owners, also called Dixiecrats, became Republicans with Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy and later the Tea Party and finally the Freedom Caucus, while the Republicans of that day became the Democrats of today.

That's a myth, one made up by leftist to mask the Democrat parties history of racism (fought for slavery, founded KKK, opposed black voting rights).

If Nixon really had a "southern strategy", then how come the Deep South went to the Democratic segregationist Wallace?

“Segregation Now, Segregation Forever”

Nixon was also the first president to implement affirmative action (he forced unions to accept black applicants, the unions were overwhelmingly white at this time, and threatened them to admit blacks or lose federal contracts). Nixon was Pro-black.

The Southern Strategy claims Republicans made 'racist appeals' to get racist in the South to vote for him yet Nixon failed to win a single southern state except Florida (which is a state that has a large migrant conservative Cuban population that voted in droves for Nixon, they knew the effects of far left statist policies, that's why they aren't in Cuba anymore). Interesting. What were those appeals? Can you find any that exist? If not, then you really have no case.

Like I said, it's a complete lie fabricated by Democrats to hide the racist history of their own racist party.

Robert Sproul says

Except the US military has not successfully put down an insurrection since the Philippines.

Has the U.S. government ever been overthown by an insurrection? Has the U.S. military ever been destroyed by an insurrection?

The fact is that the repeated defeats of our military have all been failures to use the sword to accomplish political goals that the sword can never possibly accomplish. You cannot create a free republic by pointing guns at people you are trying to set free. It doesn't work that way. And as such those defeats do not imply in any way that an insurrection could defeat the U.S. military on U.S. soil and overthrow the U.S. government. It only means the military cannot be used to create republics.

Goran_K says

Dan8267 says

nd then those Democrat slave owners, also called Dixiecrats, became Republicans with Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy and later the Tea Party and finally the Freedom Caucus, while the Republicans of that day became the Democrats of today.

That's a myth, one made up by leftist to excuse the parties history of racism (fought for slavery, founded KKK, opposed black voting rights).

You are now rewriting history and doing a very stupid job at that. There are still people alive today who literally lived through the migration of Dixiecrats into the Republican Party. The history is well-known and indisputable.

Strom Thurmond is a perfect example of a Dixiecrat who became a Republican due to the Southern Strategy. Are you saying Strom Thurmond wasn't evil? That he's the good guy? Thurmond didn't change. The parties changed. Anyone who denies this is an outright liar.

The American political system has gone through six party systems already and now is transitioning to the seventh party system. To pretend that the political or demographic makeup of the two major parties has been constant throughout history is a bold face lie.

Goran_K says

Nixon was Pro-black.

CNN: Aide says Nixon's war on drugs targeted blacks, hippies

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

There is nothing more disgusting and unpatriotic than rewriting history with lies. You are harming all future generations of Americans by doing so.

Dan8267 says

Strom Thurmond is a perfect example of a Dixiecrat who became a Republican due to the Southern Strategy. Are you saying Strom Thurmond wasn't evil? That he's the good guy? Thurmond didn't change.

Yes you can name 1 or 2. You can't name five elected Dixiecrats out of the 900+ elected offices that became Republican. Please, go name 5.

You can't? That's because they don't exist. 1-2 people switching platforms does not mean a entire party has switched platforms.

Dan8267 says

The parties changed. Anyone who denies this is an outright liar.

Yet you can't explain this:

If Nixon had a "Southern Strategy" to get the parties to switch, how come the racist in the deep south still voted for Democrat Segregationist Wallace?

Goran_K says

You can't name five elected Dixiecrats out of the 900+ elected offices that became Republican.

Honey, all those Dixiecrats are dead now, but the very people you are condemning literally switched from Democrat to Republican during the 1950s and 1960s, and today's Republican platform was literally written by those same people. So yes, you are condemning today's Republicans when you point out how evil Democrats were before the 1960s.

Goran_K says

Yet you can't explain this:

If Nixon had a "Southern Strategy" to get the parties to switch, how come the racist in the deep south still voted for Democrat Segregationist Wallace?

Yes I can, easily.

The transition from the fifth party system to the sixth party system did not happen overnight. No political party transition happens overnight. It takes years, even decades, for such a transition to take place. That's still damn fast in the big picture, but it does not mean everyone transitions at the same time.

Furthermore, George C. Wallace ran many times for president and never secured the Democratic Nomination. In fact, he even left the party and ran as an independent in 1968. And guess what? It was the white southerner, the descendant of slavers and today's republican/tea party/freedom caucus, who supported Wallace.

Wallace also harbored presidential aspirations. In 1968, he ran as an Independent candidate, supported mainly by white, working-class Southerners.

Put simply, Wallace was a hold out who didn't realize or accept that the political parties had changed. If he had ran as a republican, he would have gotten the nomination.

No matter how you cut it, history shows that the bad guys were American Southerners descended from slavers. It does not matter which party these scumbags belong to at any given time. The actual bad guys have always been the exact same demographic. If you want to know which party backs evil, just look at which one is composed of these evil people. The party does not make the people. The people make the party.

So what kind of perverted twisting of history are you going to try to get out of this one? God knows you won't be honest and just admit the truth I stated above. That would take far too much intellectual courage. And yes, I'm trying to shame you into doing the right thing. It's the only face-saving move you have, but you're not smart enough to take it even after being told point blank that it's the only face-saving move. Watch. It would be trivially easy for you to finally prove me wrong on something by manning up and simply admitting your mistake. But despite the fact that I've gone out on a branch and stated that you won't do that, you still won't do that. It's like you are compelled to do the wrong thing even when you know everyone is expecting you to do the wrong thing and you'd look much better if you surprised them. Yet still, you will not prove me wrong even after reading this paragraph. It's amazing your irrational species has survived this long.

Dan8267 says

Honey, all those Dixiecrats are dead now, but the very people you are condemning literally switched from Democrat to Republican during the 1950s and 1960s, and today's Republican platform was literally written by those same people. So yes, you are condemning today's Republicans when you point out how evil Democrats were before the 1960s.

Okay, maybe they did switch. So name five. Why can't you do it?

Dan8267 says

The transition from the fifth party system to the sixth party system did not happen overnight. No political party transition happens overnight. It takes years, even decades, for such a transition to take place. That's still damn fast in the big picture, but it does not mean everyone transitions at the same time.

Furthermore, George C. Wallace ran many times for president and never secured the Democratic Nomination. In fact, he even left the party and ran as an independent in 1968. And guess what? It was the white southerner, the descendant of slavers and today's republican/tea party/freedom caucus, who supported Wallace.

Wallace was a life long Democrat (he had been a Democrat for 24 years before the 1968 election) and only became independent because he didn't feel Humphries could beat Nixon (which in that respect he was right). Now you're trying to sweep his history under the rug (like all Democrats do with Wallace) because you know he was a racist idiot that carried the deep south in the 1968 election was destroys your point about Nixon's "southern strategy". Dan8267 says

No matter how you cut it, history shows that the bad guys were American Southerners descended from slavers.

Yes I agree. Those people were Democrats and the ones who are still obsessed with race and continue to try and implement racist policies are still Democrats.

I'd also add that the Civil Rights act passed with more Republican Support than Democrat support.

Let's also not forget Hillary Clinton's mentor and best friend, former KKK Grand Dragon Robert Byrd.

Goran_K says

So name five. Why can't you do it?

Because it is the year 2017, dummy. All the former Dixiecrats are dead. All the people you referred to as being scumbag evil racists are dead and decomposed. Today's Republicans are the literal descendants of Dixiecrats and slavers.

The oldest Republican senator is Chuck Grassley, born September 17, 1933, age 83 years. He became a senator in 1981 at the age of 48, which is pretty young for a senator. However, he became a senator long after the Southern Strategy had completely reversed the two parties.

And in case you're thinking the other side of the aisle can support your bogus claim, think again. Grassley is the second oldest senator. The oldest is Democrat Dianne Feinstein, born June 22, 1933, age 83 years. She became a senator in 1992, also long after the Southern Strategy did its dirty work.

So you might as well ask me why I can't point to any living Republican who fought in the Civil War or owned slaves. It is a stupid and obvious red herring. I can point to plenty of examples of Dixiecrat politicians becoming Republicans and liberal Republicans, the anti-racist kind, leaving the Republican Party as the racist Southerners took it over. I can also show you African Americans going from voting Republican contently to voting Democrat consistently. I can also show you racist policies being sponsored by Democrats before the Southern Strategy and by Republicans after the Southern Strategy, and often those two party members being the exact same individuals.

So no, you don't get to rewrite history.

Goran_K says

Wallace was a life long Democrat

Wallace was a life-long Dixiecrat. That does not mean the post-Southern-Strategy Democratic Party is represented by him. His polices are absolutely more in line with the Republicans from Richard Nixon to today. You are lying about which party today inherited the racist and vile platforms of yesterday.

Goran_K says

Those people were Democrats and the ones who are still obsessed with race and continue to try and implement racist policies are still Democrats.

The American South does not vote Democrat today. George, South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana have all consistently voted Republican in every presidential and Congressional election for the past 50 years. You are lying when you say that these southern racists are Democrats. They are Republicans today.

Your entire argument is that if America were renamed Germany and German were renamed America, then our country would be responsible for the holocaust simply because it bears the name Germany. That is a stupid lie that only the biggest idiot would buy. Changing a name does not change the characteristics of a thing.

Goran_K says

Given the party switch, this demonstrates that today's democrats are the "good guys", relatively speaking, and today's republicans are evil. Swapping lapel pins does not excuse the evil history of your ideas.

It's very telling that the conservative right praises liberalism, which they do whenever they exhaust the pre-1960s Republican Party, while condemning their own policies and philosophies, which they also do whenever they vilify the pre-1960s Democratic Party.

Goran_K says

Let's also not forget Hillary Clinton's mentor and best friend, former KKK Grand Dragon Robert Byrd.

Hillary Clinton is a conservative rightist in the Democratic Party. Her polices are absolutely identical to the Republican Platform. And I mean both social and economic policies. She is a self-proclaimed "Goldwater girl". Do you even know what that means? She is a white, Anglo-Saxon protestant Methodist, a literal WASP. Now, none of that makes her a bad person, but it sure doesn't make her one of those Yankee Republicans from 1860 or today's Democrat equivalent. Furthermore, her father was a life-long Republican. She worked on the presidential campaign of Republican candidate Barry Goldwater in 1964. And she was an attorney at Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, Arkansas from 1976-1992. How the fuck are you going to group Hillary Clinton in with Bernie Sanders and not with Barry Goldwater or Strom Thurmond? That requires some serious rewriting of history.

So your argument is that we should ignore the facts that
1. The very Democrats that you condemn literally switched parties when Nixon's Southern Strategy was implemented.
2. The Dixiecrat platform became the Republican platform.
3. Liberals were kicked out the Republican platform and entered the new Democrat platform as the only viable option in the two party system.
4. A few right wing conservatives stayed or became Democrats while the vast majority of right wing, anti-black, pro-segregation conservatives and descendants of slavers went Republican.
5. The entire Republican spearheaded War on Drugs was created with the expressed purpose of vilifying blacks and giving them criminal records so they could not vote.
6. Today's voter oppression laws are universally sponsored and supported by Republicans.
7. The racist American South Confederate states consistently vote Republican today.
8. The Union states from the Civil War consistently vote Democrat today.
9. African Americans stopped consistently voting Republican after the Southern Strategy and have consistently voted Democrat for half a century.
10. The KKK has supported the Republican Party in every election in the past 40 years including supporting Donald Trump.
11. Abraham Lincoln rose from the dead just so he could change his party affiliation.

OK, I'm making that last one up, but if Lincoln were alive today, he would unequivocally state that he's a Democrat in the sixth party system.

Are you fucking insane? The evidence regarding the switching of the two major parties is so overwhelming that it is embarrassing that you would make the claims you do when it is obvious to anyone that those claims are lies. Your position is beyond ridiculous.

A true patriot knows and understands the history of his country. The good, the bad, and the ugly. And he learns these things because they are essential to making his country the best it can be and to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past.

Dan8267 says

Because it is the year 2017, dummy. All the former Dixiecrats are dead. All the people you referred to as being scumbag evil racists are dead and decomposed. Today's Republicans are the literal descendants of Dixiecrats and slavers.

Okay, but election records are out there on WikiPedia and Google. You can easily show me 5 racist DixieCrats who switched to the Republican party due to Nixon's "Southern Strategy".

But you can't. Why?

You know why. It's because the "parties switching" never happened. It's a huge lie to mask Democrat historical racism. You need to stop watching The Young Turks on Youtube.

Goran_K says

You can easily show me 5 racist DixieCrats who switched to the Republican party due to Nixon's "Southern Strategy".

But you can't. Why?

Um, I can do that, dummy.

Shit, I don't even have to type it into Google. How convenient.

One "I Feel Lucky" later...

Jesse Helms
Political parties: Democratic Party (1942–1970), Republican Party (1970–2008)

Strom Thurmond
Political parties: Democratic Party (1842–1964), Republican Party (1964–2003)
Yes, he literally was a Democrat before and during the Civil War. He's that old. Either that or Google doesn't have his start date.

Mills E. Godwin Jr.
Political parties: Democratic Party (?–1973), Republican Party (1973–1999)

Harry F. Byrd, Jr.
Political parties: Democrat, 1965-1971, Independent, 1971-1983
Sure, he couldn't bring himself to become a Republican, but he still left the Democratic Party after it cease being the party of the South.

Arthur Ravenel, Jr.
Political parties: Democratic Party (1953 to 1959), Republican Party (1959–1995)

James F. Byrnes
Political parties: Democratic Party (1951 to 1964), Republican Party (1959–1995)

Claude R. Kirk, Jr.
Political parties: Democratic Party (? to 1960), Republican Party (1960–2011)

Howard Callaway
Political parties: Democratic Party (? to 1964), Republican Party (1964–2014)

I could give dozens of more examples, but I want to spend the time looking up all the dates of the switches. I'll give you one more detail though to drive the point home. Lets use Callaway as the example since he's the last one I mentioned.

NYT: Howard H. Callaway, Strategist Who Helped G.O.P. Rise in South, Dies at 86

Howard H. Callaway, a Republican politician and strategist from the South who played leading roles in the presidential campaigns of Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford and served as secretary of the Army under both, died on March 15 in Columbus, Ga. He was 86.

“He was instrumental in the transformation of our state’s political loyalty to Republicanism,” former President Jimmy Carter, who was governor of Georgia in the early 1970s, told The Ledger-Enquirer, a Columbus newspaper, after Mr. Callaway’s death.

Mr. Carter and Mr. Callaway both rose in Georgia politics during the civil rights movement, but Mr. Callaway, like many other Southern Democrats in those years, switched parties out of frustration with the national party’s more liberal policies toward integration. When he was elected to the House in 1964, he became the first Republican to represent Georgia since Reconstruction, and he spent much of his time in office fighting civil rights bills.

That puts the another nail in the coffin of your lie that Dixiecrat politicians didn't become Republicans precisely because of their racism and the changing party system. And here's yet another nail...

Republicans, Democrats and the Great Trade of a half-century ago

Once upon a time, Democrats were the party of slavery, states' rights, secession and nullification. After the Civil War and Reconstruction, the solid Democratic South sought the "Redemption" of the former Confederate states with the reestablishment of white supremacy through violence and voter suppression. For a hundred years, the architects and enforcers of Jim Crow poll taxes and literacy tests, lynchings and cross-burnings, Klan rallies and White Citizens Councils, and segregation and separate-but-equal primarily called the Democratic Party their home.

But that was all before the Great Trade.

During the height of the civil rights movement in the middle of the 20th Century, the Republican and Democratic parties were transformed by the greatest swap of political philosophies, personalities and constituencies in modern history. The integration of the American military in 1948, the end of state-mandated separate but equal schooling with Brown v. Board of Education in 1954, the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act in 1965 upended both parties. The Democrats' slow but steady embrace of the civil rights movement and the GOP's response with its Southern Strategy literally changed the complexion of both parties.

Thanks to the Great Trade, Democrats became the party of civil rights and liberty for all, while the GOP became the bastion of backlash. Republicans acquired states' rights, secession and nullification in exchange for Democratic ownership of the general welfare, due process and equal protection in a more perfect Union. Democrats got John Lewis and Martin Luther King, Jr.; the GOP got Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond. Over time, the Party of FDR, JFK and LBJ got New England and the new West, while the solid South went to the Party of Lincoln. As a result of the Great Trade, it is now the Democrats who carry on the legacy of Abraham Lincoln's "new birth of freedom" and the Great Emancipator himself.

But once again, Republicans are trying to whitewash their shameful present by instead pointing fingers at the Democrats' shameful past.

However, although I've proven that Dixiecrat politicians switched from Democrat to Republican, that's not the big picture. The real effect of the Southern Strategy is that the American Southern voter switched parties. And the evidence for that is overwhelming as well. The American South consistently voted Democrat until the Southern Strategy. Then it consistently voted Republican.

The above table demonstrates beyond any double that the American South switched parties quickly and universally. This is beyond undeniable.

None of this is surprising. As I've said, there have been six parties system in U.S. history and a seventh one in the making.

The first party system: The Federalists vs. Anti-Federalists, to the Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans, to the Era of Good Feelings. This ends with Jackson vs. Adams.

The second party system: the Jacksonian Democrats vs. Whigs to expansion. This ends with the dissolution of the Whigs and the tension over “States’ Rights.”

The third party system: Know-Nothings, Free-Soilers, Southern Democrats, Northern Republicans, the Populist party, and many other factions; from Bleeding Kansas, to Civil War, to Reconstruction, to the Gilded Age. This ends with the rise of Progressivism.

The fourth party system: The Progressive Era; the rise of Progressivism, to the First World War, to Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover. This ends with the rise of the New Deal Coalition vs. Conservative Coalition.

The fifth party system: FDR, the New Deal Coalition vs. Conservative Coalition, the Second World War, and the rise of “States’ Rights” parties. This ends with the battle at home after WWII over Brown v. the Board, Kennedy, Civil Rights and Voting Rights under LBJ, and the rise of Goldwater Republicans.

The sixth party system: From LBJ, Civil Rights, and the Southern Realignment AKA “big switch” or “solid south switch”, to Obam. This ends with the defeat of Hillary Clinton and the election of Donald Trump

The seventh party system: What it will be, we don't know yet.

Are you kidding?

You listed "Arthur Ravenel Jr." as a racist dixiecrat? Just because he chose to honor the Confederate Flag?

Name ONE single legislative action from Ravenel that was racist and hurt black people.

edit:

You also listed Bo Callaway. What the heck did Bo Callaway do during his entire legislative career that was racist?

You chose these guys to "prove your point" that racist went to the Republican party? Do you know what the word racist actually means?

Goran_K says

I'd also add that the Civil Rights act passed with more Republican Support than Democrat support.

This is yet another lie. While responding to all your other lies, I let this one slip through the cracks. I will now correct that.

It is true that 80% of Republican House representatives voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act vs 63% of Democrats, and 82% of Republican senators vs 69% of Democrat senators. Now a dishonest person like you would attempt to use this information out of context and with deliberate omission to convince people that the conservative right and the Republican Party of today was more supportive of Civil Rights Act than liberals, the conservative left, or the Democratic Party of today. This is a bold-face lie that is easily exposed.

The truth is that the liberal American North voted overwhelmingly in favor of the 1964 Civil Rights Act regardless of party, and people were in the middle of switching parties during that time, whereas the conservative American South voted overwhelmingly against the Civil Rights Act regardless of party.

90% of the Union states, the liberal North, voted in favor of the 1964 Civil Rights Act in the House, and 92% in the senate. Meanwhile, former Confederate, the conservative South, voted 92% AGAINST the Civil Rights Act in the house and 95% AGAINST it in the senate. Holy shit, that changes the story. See Once you control for region, it turns out that Democrats were actually more likely to support the 1964 Civil Rights Act

Nearly 100% of Union state Democrats supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act compared to 85% of Republicans. None of the southern Republicans voted for the bill, while a small percentage of southern Democrats did.

The same pattern holds true when looking at ideology instead of party affiliation. The folks over at Voteview.com, who created DW-nominate scores to measure the ideology of congressmen and senators, found that the more liberal a congressman or senator was the more likely he would vote for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, once one controlled for a factor closely linked to geography.

That's why Strom Thurmond left the Democratic party soon after the Civil Right Act passed. He recognized that of the two parties, it was the Republican party that was more hospitable to his message.

So I asked you that now you have been caught in so many lies and have been debunked so thoroughly, are you man enough to admit that today's Republican Party is the Democratic Party of the Civil War, the party of slavery and segregation and filibustering the Civil Rights Act? Or are you going to continue to make a fool out of yourself?

You cannot rewrite history in the Information Age. Real evidence is simply too easy to find. Any lie, even one good enough to full 99% of the people, will be debunked quickly by the 1% not fooled by it. That debunking will spread like wildfire in the Information Age. Today you cannot get away with lying or any form of deception. Information just flows too quickly for lies to work.

Dan8267 says

The truth is that the liberal American North voted overwhelmingly in favor of the 1964 Civil Rights Act regardless of party, and people were in the middle of switching parties during that time, whereas the conservative American South voted overwhelmingly against the Civil Rights Act regardless of party.

"The parties switched".

Okay. I thought we already proved that never happened.