patrick.net

FortWayne says

The only one hateful around here is you Dan. And you juts give atheists a bad name, since everyone else doesn't have your issues.

This is a blatant poisoning of the well argument. There is no hatred in me, and you are a lying sack of shit for trying to character assissinate me. I can oppose evil, whether it be Islamic terrorism or Christian sabotaging of human rights and necessary environmental police, without being hateful. You cannot understand that because you are hateful. You hate homosexuals. You hate atheists. You hate people of opposing religions. You hate communists. You hate the conservative left. You hate everyone who isn't in your narrow-minded tribe. So, of course, you cannot understand that another person could be motivated by something other than hate. I'm motivated by my strong engineering instinct to refine and improve systems. You will never understand that.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Furthermore, there is nothing necessary or even useful in religion for teaching empathy, compassion, or forgiveness. This things can easily be taught with zero supernatural bullshit, zero rewriting of history, and zero mythology.

It can't be taught without Christian god, because all those things need a higher moral authority.

Bullshit. If you are "forgiving" someone only because you are trying to get into heaven or avoid being tortured in hell, you aren't actually forgiving someone.

And I don't need your false god to empathize with another human being, or another animal, or even a sentient A.I. You statement is empirically false. I have empathy, compassion, and forgiveness while completely disbelieving in your ridiculous god. How do you explain that? I'm a living, breathing example that your are wrong.

Furthermore, history completely discredits your assertions. Western civilization was most Christian and most religious during the Dark Ages, a time when empathy, compassion, and forgiveness were at an all time low. History matters.
rando says

Islam holds them back.

This is true. It is also the reason western civilization literally lost a thousand years of progress due to Christianity. For an entire millennia, Christianity did to Europe what Islam is doing to the Middle East, stifling progress. You never, ever, without exception, see technological or social progress in a highly religious society. It never matters what the religion is. They all prevent progress.

Quigley says

Our own resident atheist Dan would likely go down that same dark road if given power. From the hateful things he's said and totalitarian proposals he's made, it's obvious that atheists will stop at nothing to remake the world in their image. Which is why he's constantly defending Islam, pretty similar levels of intolerance!

Well, if we're painting our opposition as demons, let me remind you that Christian clergy are a bunch of kiddie rapists. That's an empirical fact, unlike your ridiculous conjecture.

socal2 says

Between his Orwellian Doublespeak in how he likes to inverse Conservatives with Liberals

A liberal believes in equality under the law, transparency in government, and that everyone should be allowed to do what they want as long as they aren't violating other people's rights. Exactly which of these principles do you disagree with?

No double speak here. I made it clear what liberal philosophy is and how to apply it.

Someone who restricts speech is a conservative, by definition, regardless of what particular speech they are restricting. Silencing rock-and-roll, and silencing men's rights speeches, and silencing profanity or indecent conversation, and silencing anti-war protests are all the same thing. It's all censorship, and it's all conservative.

Islamist are conservatives. You cannot make an honest case that ISIS is full of liberals. The idea that conservatives are only the conservative right is a lie. Hell, what constitutes the left and the right varies from country to country and from decade to decade. Today the conservative right likes beer. In the early 20th century, they were prohibitionists. The arbitrary cultural preferences can change, but the tactics and fundamental ideology is the same. My tribe is the only tribe that matters. All other tribes must submit or die. That's conservatism.

It's really sad that you conservatives always feel the need to lie about things to support your case. The truth never supports your statements.

P N Dr Lo R says

socal2 says

Communist/Marxist regimes were filled with little technocrat toadies like Dan

I've dubbed people like that Little Soviets

And your example illustrates how false your premise is. The Soviets were leftists, but they sure as hell weren't liberals. They were extremely conservative. They believed in suppressing all speech and limiting liberty as much as possible. Being on the political left does not make one liberal at all.

I've even painted a picture for you. If you cannot understand this image, that's your intellectual failing. It's not that hard to understand.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. If you are "forgiving" someone only because you are trying to get into heaven or avoid being tortured in hell, you aren't actually forgiving someone.

Hey, that makes sense to me. Truly forgiving someone can only come with no selfish motives.
For $10 million i might even forgive Osama Bin Laden.

Obama made a grave mistake killing bin Laden. He's now a martyr. Obama should have brought his ass back to New York City to stand trial. It would have been a show of strength and resolve that our form of government cannot be damaged by terrorism, and that the long arm of the law is truly long.

Dan8267 says

Obama made a grave mistake killing bin Laden. He's now a martyr. Obama should have brought his ass back to New York City to stand trial. It would have been a show of strength and resolve that our form of government cannot be damaged by terrorism, and that the long arm of the law is truly long.

Really? And allow him to continue as an inspiration to the Islamists, worldwide? While we spend tens of millions on his welfare, security, and court costs with the rotten justice system we have?

I'm happy Osama is dead.

That documentary points out that the current Saudi king was instrumental in funding terrorism in Bosnia, as a way to get terrorists a foothold Europe.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/saudi-arabias-new-king-helped-fund-radical-terror-groups/

The king is actually much worse than Osama, funding terror all over the world.

rando says

That documentary points out that the current Saudi king was instrumental in funding terrorism in Bosnia, as a way to get terrorists a foothold Europe.

www.youtube.com/embed/M6QIopgwuIU

The globalist neoliberals almost never mention Bosnian atrocities like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kravica_attack_(1993)

Strategist says

Really? And allow him to continue as an inspiration to the Islamists, worldwide?

Feed him bacon every day. He won't be an inspiration to Islamists. As a martyr with 72 virgins, he is.

rando says

I'm happy Osama is dead.

A quick death means Osama suffered nothing for his crimes. Spending the rest of his life ineffectually in prison would have been a much better deterrent for the next guy, especially since these terrorists believe in an afterlife. Image how much the typical Islamist thinks Osama is being rewarded by god for dying for the religion. This is what every Islamist wants.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Really? And allow him to continue as an inspiration to the Islamists, worldwide?

Feed him bacon every day. He won't be an inspiration to Islamists. As a martyr with 72 virgins, he is.

I heard the best way to prevent terrorism is to feed the body parts of dead terrorists to pigs. They believe they can't get to heaven that way.

Strategist says

I heard the best way to prevent terrorism is to feed the body parts of dead terrorists to pigs. They believe they can't get to heaven that way.

And how would that be mutually exclusive with denouncing Christianity as you would all other religions?

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I heard the best way to prevent terrorism is to feed the body parts of dead terrorists to pigs. They believe they can't get to heaven that way.

And how would that be mutually exclusive with denouncing Christianity as you would all other religions?

Denouncing and stopping Islam is the priority. The other religions are not as dangerous as Islam.

Strategist says

Denouncing and stopping Islam is the priority. The other religions are not as dangerous as Islam.

Again, you are making the mistake of assuming two complimentary things are mutually exclusive. It's like arguing that your cannot cut wasteful spending before you increase taxes to balance the budget. No, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. They are complimentary to the goal of balancing the budget.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Denouncing and stopping Islam is the priority. The other religions are not as dangerous as Islam.

Again, you are making the mistake of assuming two complimentary things are mutually exclusive.

They are not complimentary. They are sworn enemies from day one.

Strategist says

They are not complimentary.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Fighting Islam with Christianity is like throwing charcoal on a wood fire. It may burn different, but it still burns.

I think you're ignoring the protective effects of Christianity.

Inoculations use bits of a weakened virus to give protection against a deadly virus.

It's just like inoculation. Christianity gives the people who need religion a benign and even very helpful outlook. If they didn't have Christianity, they'd be likely to turn to Islam, and there would be a lot more blood in the streets as they did what Islam commands them to.

I don't get it - why all faiths, in particular Christianity, must be defeated, in order to defeat Islam. It it is like saying "to defeat Communism, one must defeat Socialism."

Sweden is thoroughly secularized, They have defeated Christianity. It does not look like they will win against Islam. The less secularized Eastern Europe is doing a better job.

rando says

Inoculations use bits of a weakened virus to give protection against a deadly virus.

The biochemical machinery responsible for the success of vaccines do not have anything to do with the mechanism of faith. Allowing children to be brainwashed by Christianity is like giving them AIDS. It weakens their immune system against the infection of Islam. Who is more likely to convert to Islam, one who already believes in an all-powerful god and moral figure or an atheist who finds the idea of the supernatural ridiculous?

Another analogy. To keep people off crack, give them cocaine to snort. To keep people from abusing liquor, get them drunk on beer. To make sure you don't die of lung cancer, infect yourself with brain cancer.

Remember, Islam would not even exist if not for Judaism and Christianity.

The solution is to apply Rin-wah law ... "men shall bonk hoes and listen to classic rock."

If the above is applied, then peace shall prevail on earth.

Rin says

If the above is applied, then peace shall prevail on earth.

You jest, but I suspect that much terrorism is the result of young men not being able to get laid. And yes, I'm serious about that. Sexually frustrated young men with time on their hands and nothing to lose are very, very dangerous. In contrast, men who get laid regularly are generally laid back and happy, and unlikely to risk their happiness for some crazy cause or glory.

Dan8267 says

assuming two complimentary things are mutually exclusive

Strategist says

They are not complimentary. They are sworn enemies from day one.

It's complEmentary not complimentary (in this case).

A drunk non-native speaker knows your own language better than you.

Dan8267 says

Who is more likely to convert to Islam, one who already believes in an all-powerful god and moral figure or an atheist who finds the idea of the supernatural ridiculous?

***

Remember, Islam would not even exist if not for Judaism and Christianity.

Dan, about the history, you are right: the charlatan Mohamadman hijacked the Abrahamic tradition much as the 9/11 hijackers hijacked 767's. Also, at the individual level, you are right again: individual Christians can be converted to Islam more readily than atheists can.

OTOH, at the societal level, the empirical data seem to contradict your claim. As Patrick and 2Scoops pointed out, the comparatively more secular western European and left-leaning populations appear more vulnerable to hijrah. Sam Harris explained a likely reason: most secularists fail to understand how the world looks to a sincerely religious person. I've been lucky to know many religious people, and I can tell you that they believe. To the secular left, a religious label seems like a fashion label, but to sincerely religious people, religion defines the origin and ultimate purpose of life itself. As a result, secular societies appear more vulnerable to the delusion that radically antagonistic religions can "coexist", even when they can't. I wish that atheists in general could see that Islam says to kill them and importing believers is problematic, but surprisingly many refuse to see that really obvious fact, even when Muslims say so openly and refer to it on official flags that fly brazenly around the world.

None so blind as those who will not see.

Here is the flag of Saudi Arabia. For those who can't read Arabic, it states the Shehada: "There is no god but Allah, Mohamed is his prophet." They underline that statement with a sword, like the sword they would use to cut off your head. They call atheists terrorists, because even questioning the fundamentals of Islam undermines the foundation of their government.

Your words regarding religion sound very rigid, almost fanatically intolerant. I don't know if that's the intent, however intolerance shares a common source on both ends of the religious spectrum. Just an observation.Dan8267 says

rando says

Inoculations use bits of a weakened virus to give protection against a deadly virus.

The biochemical machinery responsible for the success of vaccines do not have anything to do with the mechanism of faith. Allowing children to be brainwashed by Christianity is like giving them AIDS. It weakens their immune system against the infection of Islam. Who is more likely to convert to Islam, one who already believes in an all-powerful god and moral figure or an atheist who finds the idea of the supernatural ridiculous?

Another analogy. To keep people off crack, give them cocaine to snort. To keep people from abusing liquor, get them drunk on beer. To make sure you don't die of lung cancer, infect yourself with brain cancer.

Remember, Islam would not even exist if not for Judaism and Christianity.

They are taught from day one to hate America, this won't be good in a long run. That's a lot of people in middle east who wish us death. I think that stopping terrorism can only be done the way Patrick pointed in another thread. You have to confront the problem and deal with it. Not what liberals do, tip toe around the issue cowering.

I don't want to defeat Christianity, I just want to MAGA. Which absolutely requires that we protect our nation and it's citizens from all the evils and failings of religion, especially Christianity. Because Christians seem to believe this is their country, and their government.

errc says

I don't want to defeat Christianity, I just want to MAGA. Which absolutely requires that we protect our nation and it's citizens from all the evils and failings of religion, especially Christianity. Because Christians seem to believe this is their country, and their government.

You might want to consider who is blowing up Americans with bombs before you make statements like that.

America is doomed! This country is in the shotter, and going straight to hell! All thanks to Libruls!!

America is a Christian nation, that survives and thrives on Christianity and it's belief systems! And by Christian, i mean good Christian, not that bad ones. When Christians wrong people cause harm, they are not Real Christians!

Have you ever asked yourself how you hold both positions simultaneously?

FortWayne says

errc says

I don't want to defeat Christianity, I just want to MAGA. Which absolutely requires that we protect our nation and it's citizens from all the evils and failings of religion, especially Christianity. Because Christians seem to believe this is their country, and their government.

You might want to consider who is blowing up Americans with bombs before you make statements like that.

How many Americans have been blown up with bombs by the opposing faction in your religious war?

More, or less, than those who have fallen victim to the Christian War on Drugs? A failed Loser war, where the government is at war with its own citizens?

Love thy neighbor, bro

Gade says

Sweden is thoroughly secularized, They have defeated Christianity. It does not look like they will win against Islam.

This is true. Watch the slow death of Sweden through the toleration of violent intolerance.

How many people were hurt by drugs with lives completely destroyed? Your view of freedom means hurting others when it comes to drugs errc.

War with Middle East... you probably forgot that they attacked us. We retaliated.

errc says

FortWayne says

errc says

I don't want to defeat Christianity, I just want to MAGA. Which absolutely requires that we protect our nation and it's citizens from all the evils and failings of religion, especially Christianity. Because Christians seem to believe this is their country, and their government.

You might want to consider who is blowing up Americans with bombs before you make statements like that.

How many Americans have been blown up with bombs by the opposing faction in your religious war?

More, or less, than those who have fallen victim to the Christian War on Drugs? A failed Loser war, where the government is at war with its own citizens?

Love thy neighbor, bro

Here's a question. How many Muslims in the US have multiple wives?

I know there are tons in the UK and the Goverment looks the other way while throwing the book at non-Muslims who never finalized a separation but got married again 10 years later.

I better not find out the Government is chasing Mormon sub-groups for Bigamy while ignoring Muslims.

rando says

I think there can be morality without God. You just have to see that other people suffer like you yourself do, that they are really very similar to you.

The only way to scientifically test your hypothesis would be to remove God from the equation and see if people develop moral behavior.

The thing is that because God literally did create everything, there is no way to remove Him from the equation. He wrote the laws of the universe and all the equations that explain those laws.

So since we can't remove God from the equation the best we can do is examine the evidence. Are there any atheist dominated societies on the earth? None that I know of. But lets assume there is such a place. Would this place still require police, door locks, banks/safety deposit boxes, security cameras? There in not an altruistic society. It is an illusion.

I know some people will say that animals exhibit altruism/morality. But while there certainly are examples of morality/altruism in nature, there are also examples of savagery and cruelty. It is NOT universally true that animals are moral. And therefore, morality is not a product of evolution/genetics.

But back to the point. People are not capable of acting with morality 100% of the time. People are flawed, and incapable of 100% rational behavior. Evidence of this is seen all day everyday, just watch people. They consistently do things that don't make sense. The most tragic example is that people think that by wishing God's existence away, they can avoid the pain that comes from refusing to make God foundation of their own lives. Unbelief unfortunately doesn't change reality.

Climate change is real, no matter how hard the skeptics laugh.

Jesus Christ is real, no matter how hard the skeptics laugh.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

You are wrong again. When a person says there is no God, they are implying there is no God to which they are accountable.

No. You're wrong. When I say there is no god, I mean there is no god. A person is immorally accountable for immoral actions. You don't need some supernatural sky daddy to motivate you to not do evil, unless you are fucking evil.

Dan you are actually starting to make sense. People are fucking evil. THAT IS EXACTLY WHY THEY NEED GOD!

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

On the other hand, someone who truly fears God would not deliberately and habitually do evil because they would know that God will not let their evil go unpunished.

Your statement is empirically false. Just look at 90% of Christian history. Look at the torture, rape, and murder committed in the name of Christ. Hell, look at ISIS today. They believe in your god, the god of Abraham, and yet they commit atrocities all the time. Don't let reality get in the way of your fantasies.

No Dan, it is absolute truth. When a person lives their life in the fear of the Lord, they do not do those immoral things. The fear of the Lord would prevent them from torture, rape, murder.

When a woman who identifies as a Christian or Muslim or atheist commits sin, they are doing so not as a representation of their identity as a Christian, Muslim or atheist. They are sinning as an individual who does not fear God. You need to stop blaming Christianity for what "Christians" do and start recognizing that people do evil because they are evil. Every. Last. One.

And Islam encourages people to be evil.

In contrast, Jesus discouraged evil behavior and made it a point to teach his followers to reform and become better.

Dan8267 says

A quick death means Osama suffered nothing for his crimes.

First of all, Osama was suffering for his crimes. If nothing else, he bore the burden of knowing that he is responsible for countless deaths. Second of all, he lived under Islamic rule which is a prison in and of itself. And lastly, no wrong deed goes unpunished. Either Jesus will pay for your sin, or you will. In Osama's case, he chose to accept the tab himself.

Don't pull an Osama, trust Christ today.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Here's a question. How many Muslims in the US have multiple wives?

I know there are tons in the UK and the Goverment looks the other way while throwing the book at non-Muslims who never finalized a separation but got married again 10 years later.

I better not find out the Government is chasing Mormon sub-groups for Bigamy while ignoring Muslims.

It is my understanding that polygamy is practiced in more than one subset of American culture. Hmong for example practice polygamy and there are many Hmong Americans.
http://hmongamerican.blogspot.com/2011/08/polygamist-marriages-in-hmong-culture.html

Probably the only reason for the crackdown in polygamy amongst Mormons is the due to bad will towards the cult of Mormonism/abuse in the homes of Mormons.

curious2 says

s Patrick and 2Scoops pointed out, the comparatively more secular western European and left-leaning populations appear more vulnerable to hijrah.

This is mostly do to the conservative left opening up borders for politically correct reasons rather than taking a hard stance against religion. It is precisely freedom of religion that causes the influx of religious immigrants who then try to spread their religion and attack those who aren't members of it.

curious2 says

Sam Harris explained a likely reason: most secularists fail to understand how the world looks to a sincerely religious person. I've been lucky to know many religious people, and I can tell you that they believe. To the secular left, a religious label seems like a fashion label, but to sincerely religious people, religion defines the origin and ultimate purpose of life itself.

This is exactly why the very notion of religion must be opposed.

Ultimately, you cannot oppose Islam effectively without oppose faith and the supernatural. These two irrational ideas are the core of Islam and every other religion. Effectively dismantling Islam means dismantling all faith and all belief in the supernatural. It requires replacing irrationality and mysticism with rationality and science. Sam Harris will tell you the exact same thing. It's a continuous spectrum of badness and minor evils enable greater evils. The Broken Window Theory is right. It's been empirically proved.

curious2 says

Here is the flag of Saudi Arabia. For those who can't read Arabic, it states the Shehada: "There is no god but Allah, Mohamed is his prophet." They underline that statement with a sword, like the sword they would use to cut off your head. They call atheists terrorists, because even questioning the fundamentals of Islam undermines the foundation of their government.

Yes, Islam is worse. Christians managed to get "In God we trust" imprinted on our money. That's not nearly as evil and wrong, but it is wrong and it does enable greater evils that ultimately lead to decapitating people. Societies don't become utopias overnight, but they also don't become dystopia overnight. Both take time and moving along that spectrum. The only effective way to fight Islam and the next vile religion is to continuously move the world towards the rational side of that spectrum. Every time you move even the more rational societies even further towards rationality, it has a pulling effect on the entire rest of the world. The reverse is also true. Safe bastions for irrationality move the entire world, every society regardless of its current location, a bit further towards the irrational end of the spectrum.

The world is a complex system. The only way to improve a complex system is gradually and continuously in small pushes. Big pushes don't work. This has been proven time and time again. An excellent book on this is On the Logic of Failure. Everyone should read that book. It details many example of the failures of systems built on the fallacies that the pro-Christian side is using.

Perfect example of logic @FortWayne. That is why the God deniers ignored you. They ignore logic.

Never the less, well said my man! Well said!

FortWayne says

If religion is man made as you say therefore man is the source of all violence, not religion. That's just following your logic.

Strategist says

PeopleUnited says

But more to the point, what is the source of violence and hate Dan? Answer that and you will be demonstrating wisdom.

Religion and God is the source of virtually all violence.

Just remember, Christianity has had 1400 years to end Islam, and it has failed miserably. Islam is the fast growing religion. The approach of using Christianity to end or even contain Islam has simply failed. The approach doesn't work.

FortWayne says

You might want to consider who is blowing up Americans with bombs before you make statements like that.

Using bombs is only one of many ways to undermine America and democracy. Do you really think that antifa has no negative effect on America? Do you really think that the anti-man pseudofeminists actually in no way harm America? Hell, you constantly complain about the left, liberals, and progressives ruining America, and although you have no idea that those terms each refer to entirely different things, even you in your delusions have to realize that the Clintons never bombed America. Neither did Bernie Sanders. So are you saying that anything other than blowing up Americans goes?

PeopleUnited says

First of all, Osama was suffering for his crimes. If nothing else, he bore the burden of knowing that he is responsible for countless deaths. Second of all, he lived under Islamic rule which is a prison in and of itself. And lastly, no wrong deed goes unpunished. Either Jesus will pay for your sin, or you will. In Osama's case, he chose to accept the tab himself.

Don't pull an Osama, trust Christ today.

This is just plain stupid. If you believe that your dumb god will right all wrongs, then the court systems serve absolutely no purpose. Nor does killing an intruder who breaks into your house to rape your family. Yes, that's what Jesus would have you do. Turn the other cheek -- in this case ass cheek -- and don't life a finger to hurt the child of god who is raping your entire family. When he kills them and you, you all will be rewarded in heaven with eternal bliss, so being raped to death is a good thing. It brings eternal bliss sooner.

How fucking stupid are Christians who actually believe in Christ's teachings?

Either Christians believe in Christ's teachings in which case they are fools, or they don't believe in those teachings in which case Christianity does not promote morality no matter how "nice" the stories sound because no one believes them.

Dan8267 says

It is precisely freedom of religion that causes the influx of religious immigrants who then try to spread their religion and attack those who aren't members of it.

Dan is arguing that freedom of religion is what causes the spread of terrorism from Islamic nations (where there is no religious freedom) to Europe and The United States where in general religion is mocked 24/7 by people just like Dan himself. I suppose the solution Dan is to lock up all the believers and ban religion in the name of (Freedom?) peace and safety.

Brilliant.

PeopleUnited says

This is exactly why the very notion of religion must be opposed.

Ultimately, you cannot oppose Islam effectively without oppose faith and the supernatural. These two irrational ideas are the core of Islam and every other religion. Effectively dismantling Islam means dismantling all faith and all belief in the supernatural. It requires replacing irrationality and mysticism with rationality and science. Sam Harris will tell you the exact same thing. It's a continuous spectrum of badness and minor evils enable greater evils.

It would be a major evil to ban religion in order to "prevent" terrorism. The opposition of religion is the definition of totalitarianism. Welcome to the conservative club Dan. You are their new president and spokesperson.Dan8267 says

Yes, Islam is worse. Christians managed to get "In God we trust" imprinted on our money. That's not nearly as evil and wrong, but it is wrong and it does enable greater evils that ultimately lead to decapitating people. Societies don't become utopias overnight, but they also don't become dystopia overnight. Both take time and moving along that spectrum. The only effective way to fight Islam and the next vile religion is to continuously move the world towards the rational side of that spectrum. Every time you move even the more rational societies even further towards rationality, it has a pulling effect on the entire rest of the world. The reverse is also true. Safe bastions for irrationality move the entire world, every society regardless of its current location, a bit further towards the irrational end of the spectrum.

Dan is arguing that imprinting the words "In God we trust" on coins/bills is not only evil, but a slippery slope that leads to decapitation.

Brilliant.

I suppose next you will argue that Bibles should be banned because people who read them are more likely to vote, and in fact allowing people to read Bibles might cause them to vote Republican.