patrick.net

Interesting question. I grew up very religious but left in my early 30s. I now have no belief beyond science, which certainly makes logical sense, but it's not comforting. The human mind has evolved to a level of needing a sense of identity and meaning, which science does not currently provide. I would like to believe in something more, but I haven't found something I can genuinely embrace without dismissing it as an illusion. I'm exploring universal energy as an option, but I'm open to ideas as someone jaded by man-made religion.

Religion is supernatural? I thought it was about fooling dumbshits into believing in some kind of fabricated mythology so you could methodically fuck them in the ass with their approval and eager participation.

just any guy says

Interesting question. I grew up very religious but left in my early 30s. I now have no belief beyond science, which certainly makes logical sense, but it's not comforting. The human mind has evolved to a level of needing a sense of identity and meaning, which science does not currently provide. I would like to believe in something more, but I haven't found something I can genuinely embrace without dismissing it as an illusion. I'm exploring universal energy as an option, but I'm open to ideas as someone jaded by man-made religion.

maybe you grew up with the wrong religion. Did you research all religions before abandoning the idea?

just any guy

"I would like to believe in something more, but I haven't found something I can genuinely embrace without dismissing it as an illusion. I'm exploring universal energy as an option, but I'm open to ideas as someone jaded by man-made religion."

I suggest that the only religions that are worthy are the ones who push the seeking of knowledge and wisdom as compared to the idol worshiping religions that push obedience or submission to some invisible guy in the sky who never communicates with anyone.

I myself am a Gnostic Christian and follow the Gnostic Jesus in scriptures. He shows the way that the church never quotes.

www.youtube.com/embed/gLIHeAYm7yE

I warn you though. If you become a Gnostic Christian, you will be hated by all the idol worshiping religionists as well as the secular government people who are tied to a particular political party.

Gnostic Christians put themselves above those social controllers the way Jesus taught we should so as to be completely free of their influence. Free thinking is the mandate of a Gnostic Christian. Not to the point of anarchy or anything like that, but to the point of picking and choosing the best laws to follow regardless of the source and to attack the laws that we see as harmful and a deterrent to complete freedom of the person..

Gnostic Christians are called upon to fight the evil that we see in those controlling religious and political forces and that is why all within those groups who idol worship their leadership will hate you.

If your tribal nature is what you seek to appease, which is what most religionists are concerned with, do not become a Gnostic Christian as we often stand alone and not all people are able to do so.

Regards
DL

Ceffer

I agree with your view but as a hated religionist, I would not apply your thinking to my religion, but then again, my religion is based on reality and not fantasy, even though atheists will see it as fantasy as they only define the word God the way religions do and will not recognize that in the old days, God was synonymous with an enlightened man.

Jesus asked, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

Almost everyone has.

Regards
DL

anonymous

A good quote to show for the idol worshiping religions but not accurate for most of the knowledge and wisdom seeking religions.

I am all in for trying to rid the world of the evil religious cults like Christianity and Islam.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

Regards
DL

love gnocchi.
However, if you are not italian, you will go straight to hell...

Greatest I am says

If you become a Gnostic Christian, you will

Greatest I am says

When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Been there, done that at age 13. Never looked back.

Waitup says

maybe you grew up with the wrong religion. Did you research all religions before abandoning the idea?

I have researched some. The Unitarian Church is one that I was mostly drawn to because its premise seems more based on being a good person and improving one's self.

There is nothing more reasonable than faith. Lack of faith is lack of reason, it is for people who miss the world and lords greatness around them. Without lord, there will be no love and no forgiveness.

just any guy says

Interesting question. I grew up very religious but left in my early 30s. I now have no belief beyond science, which certainly makes logical sense, but it's not comforting. The human mind has evolved to a level of needing a sense of identity and meaning, which science does not currently provide. I would like to believe in something more, but I haven't found something I can genuinely embrace without dismissing it as an illusion. I'm exploring universal energy as an option, but I'm open to ideas as someone jaded by man-made religion.

Believing in myths and magic will never be the answer.
My purpose in life........Play my part in the chain of evolution.

anonymous

"and more or less like some of the concepts of people like some of the American Indians who valued a connection between nature, man and something greater than the two."

Many of the naturalistic religions and belief system are what you describe. Janism is apparently popular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

My own Gnostic Christianity is also strongly naturalistic as we venerate reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.

www.youtube.com/embed/NOGEyBeoBGM&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

Strategist

Nice.

Do you try to bring others out of their delusional thinking and into reality?

My religion basically forces me to try to do so. That is in keeping with the Golden Rule and this quote.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Regards
DL

FortWayne

If you are a Christian, you have faith in a book that begins with a talking serpent and donkey and a genocidal son murdering God, that has produced an intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religion.

Why on earth would you want to even associate yourself with such a vile creed?

-----------

That aside, ---- on your view of faith.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Nice.

Do you try to bring others out of their delusional thinking and into reality?

My religion basically forces me to try to do so.

I argue against God and religion, but don't believe i have ever managed to bring delusional thinking into reality.
On the other hand, I am constantly being hit on by delusional thinkers to take me out of reality. Many have tried, all have failed. :)

Strategist

My purpose in life........Play my part in the chain of evolution.

What part are you playing in the evolution of ideas?

Regards
DL

Strategist

"but don't believe i have ever managed to bring delusional thinking into reality."

I used to think that as well but know differently now that I know a bit more about human nature. I have seen too many say my tribe or religion or political party, right or wrong.

When they say that, like so many Republicans did with Trump, not to get into politics here, they know that they are wrong as the hand holding their nose as they vote proves that people like you and I are making an impact, even if it is not quantifiable. Think of all the lurkers we are effecting.

Fight on brother. It is our duty to our fellow man because for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

Regards
DL

P.S. You have answered my question in post 18.

Greatest I am says

What part are you playing in the evolution of ideas?

Supporting science, evolution, rational thinking and atheism. Criticizing religion, especially Islam.
Criticism precedes change.

Strategist

To post 20.

www.youtube.com/embed/yUwdlENVcYg

Regards
DL

You are trolling too hard, too obvious. Same guy I bet.

I'm so glad there is no pending danger that I will reach the age of reason.

anonymous

"believe in God and Jesus. Between all of you however each is claiming they have the only true way to achieve whatever and the others ways are inferior or lacking."

I do not believe in a supernatural God or Jesus. The Gnostic Christian Jesus I see in scriptures is not the miracle working half breed chimera God that God would have produced by bestiality, coveting another man's wife and cuckolding Joseph just before taking off and becoming a deadbeat dad. The Jesus I follow is a fully human esoteric ecumenist who suffered apotheosis just as I did.

If I did believe in Yahweh, I would condemn his sorry ass to hell where he belongs with all the other genocidal pricks. Pardon the language.

Please see post 5 for a partial view of what I believe.

I would never join Christianity or Islam. Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

As to your, --- "each is claiming they have the only true way "

I speak of a way that worked for me. I do not and will never say that it is the only way as I doubt that very much.

Over all on your theme of division.

www.youtube.com/embed/MDbiqlhAirE

Regards
DL

For a religious position that embraces science, technology and the future
https://www.christiantranshumanism.org/users

tovarichpeter

Thanks for the link, but I have reached the age of reason and have put away childish things, like a supernatural God who is just playing us along his plan.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Over all on your theme of division.

www.youtube.com/embed/MDbiqlhAirE

Regards

DL

Very interesting guy. Love what he said. He seems to believe in God, but not in organized religion.

Greatest I am says

That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

Yeshua says: Woe unto them, the dogmatists—for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen. For neither does he eat, nor does he allow the oxen to eat. (

Strategist

"Very interesting guy. Love what he said. He seems to believe in God, but not in organized religion."

He is interesting to hear and I like that he, to me, speaks the way a Gnostic Christian would.

My kingdom for such a skill.

Regards
DL

Heraclitusstudent

"Yeshua says: Woe unto them, the dogmatists—for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen. For neither does he eat, nor does he allow the oxen to eat."

I use these ones as they are more direct in terms of what I want to say.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Lawyers here means scripture writers and temple officials.

Regards
DL

Yes. I rejected the whole concept ~30 years ago, upon being subjected to Sunday School

errc

Nice.

Does your moral sense push you to try to bring others out of their poor thinking and moral patterns?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

"Yeshua says: Woe unto them, the dogmatists—for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen. For neither does he eat, nor does he allow the oxen to eat."

I use these ones as they are more direct in terms of what I want to say.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Yeshua says: The dogmatists and the scriptualists have received the keys of recognition, but they have hidden them. They did not enter, nor did they permit those to enter who wished to. Yet you—become astute as serpents and innocent as doves.

Same quote, different layers of copy and translation.

Heraclitusstudent

"Same quote, different layers of copy and translation."

Indeed.

"the keys of recognition, but they have hidden them."

Sorry about the quoting. I cannot get the system to pick up your words.

Part of how they hid the key was to decimate Gnostic Christianity that pushed that part of scriptures over all others.

With religions shrinking in the West, I doubt that we Gnostic Christians will ever have our superior to Christianity and Islam ever recognized.

A damned shame as our ideology makes the mainstream religions look as sick as they are.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

I doubt that we Gnostic Christians will ever have our superior to Christianity and Islam ever recognized.

I'm not a gnostic Christian. Just pointing out that the rejection of dogmatism is itself a mantra of "spiritual leaders" like Jesus.
Atheism will work just good for that purpose.

Heraclitusstudent

Seems we both recognize Jesus as more anti-religion than pro-religion.

He said that praying should be done in private and I would love to ban all public religious displays.

Strange how both Christianity and Islam say they respect Jesus while ignoring the fundamentals of his teachings.

The word hypocrisy come to mind

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Strange how both Christianity and Islam say they respect Jesus while ignoring the fundamentals of his teachings.

All religions are a form of tribalism.
It has nothing to do with what Jesus was trying to teach, really.

Heraclitusstudent

I agree on both counts. If Jesus saw what has been done to his ideas, he would send all Christians to hell. Not that hell exists.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

If Jesus saw what has been done to his ideas, he would send all Christians to hell

Hackneyed cliche right out of central casting. I've heard one variation or another for 60 plus years first from my Christian Sunday school and training union teachers: "the main reason people aren't Christian is because of other Christians". Didn't believe it then and don't believe it now. The Soviet Union wasn't officially atheist because they objected to what Christians had done with the ideas of Jesus. They were atheist because they didn't recognize a higher power than the state and the same is true with today's atheists who are overwhelmingly on the statist side of the political spectrum. The Christians and the Jews run the benevolences, the hospitals, the soup kitchens. shelters, drug treatment facilities, Salvation Army, Jesus can see what has been done with His ideas.

P N Dr Lo R

Religions, for sure have bone many good social work.

That does not forgive the harm that they have done in the past and continue to do today.

Let me go to an O.P I am working on to see if we see the world and religions the same way.

=============
Yahweh. Obey like a slave. Allah. Submit like a slave. Do you see a difference?

I find it strange that all-powerful Gods have a need or want of slaves, but if slavery is all that Christians and Muslims aspire to after death, I am sure glad I am a Gnostic Christian and see Jesus as not being of the same ilk as Christian and Muslim slave aspirers. Jesus said he came to serve man but I guess that he is not like his father. Thank God for that. –;)

In the arena of cultural evolution, the secular and humanist West has decided that Jesus wins the God Wars. Christians have gone along with revering the nice (sort of) God, Jesus, instead of his poor satanic father.

If Muslims do not also go along with that archetypal prophet and savior Jesus, as being more authoritative than Muhammad, they will not survive and the religion will die.

This is inevitable as the world will not allow open religious slavery, --- which is what Muslim and Christian ideologies promote.

No?

Regards
DL

On Muslim slavery.www.youtube.com/embed/NUOSIhg86oc
On archetypal Jesus. https://clyp.it/lqeu3cku
=========

P N Dr Lo R

My bottom line to you is that both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

ry.www.youtube.com/embed/NUOSIhg86oc

Welcome to the barbaric sharia laws.

Greatest I am says

Please do not try to tell me that Muslim slave women and girls do not need feminists to fight for their freedom.

Feminists in the US like Islam:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/women-wear-hijabs-donald-trump-inauguration-day-kathy-najimy-us-president-solidarity-muslim-sisters-a7534826.html
www.youtube.com/embed/a5Erby6U_d4