patrick.net

Long live the coup.
Long live the Revolution.
Death to Dictators.
Long live Democracy.
Let freedom rule.

The people are starving. They do not have bread. The government has failed, and Maduro must be overthrown and arrested for crimes against the people.
Venezuelans have the support of all freedom loving Americans.

Man, there is a lot of propaganda out there about Venezuela's problems being due to Socialism being bad, and nothing else. The food and toilet paper shortages are caused by the top 0.1% using US dollars designated for food imports to take currency out of the country rather than actually importing food and other necessities.

justme says

Man, there is a lot of propaganda out there about Venezuela's problems being due to Socialism being bad, and nothing else. The food and toilet paper shortages are caused by the top 0.1% using US dollars designated for food imports to take currency out of the country rather than actually importing food and other necessities.

So it's not due to the government and people being broke.

justme says

Man, there is a lot of propaganda out there about Venezuela's problems being due to Socialism being bad, and nothing else. The food and toilet paper shortages are caused by the top 0.1% using US dollars designated for food imports to take currency out of the country rather than actually importing food and other necessities.

Nice try. What would explain food and toilet paper shortages in USSR then?

Straw Man says

Nice try. What would explain food and toilet paper shortages in USSR then?

What year was that? Do you have a reference? How much of it was just US anti-communist propaganda that you uncritically swallowed?

Much of the reason for the lesser economic performance of the Soviet Union in 1941-1992 was due to having lost 27 MILLION PEOPLE and a huge portion of their industrial and food-producing capability in the war against Nazi Germany.

By comparison, the US lost 500k people and had virtually NO damage to their homeland. Remember also, there was no Marshall Plan or Marshall Help for the Soviets. They were left with no assistance whatsoever.

I think these simple facts explain a lot. But the right-wing propagandists never talk about these facts.

justme says

Straw Man says

Nice try. What would explain food and toilet paper shortages in USSR then?

What year was that? Do you have a reference? How much of it was just US anti-communist propaganda that you uncritically swallowed?

All the way until it fucking dissolved in 1991. Ask people who actually lived there.

Fun fact: first toilet paper plant in USSR was opened in 1969. Before that they produced 0 rolls. Zilch. Nada.

Propaganda my ass.

What happened to all the free shit?

Straw Man says

Fun fact: first toilet paper plant in USSR was opened in 1969. Before that they produced 0 rolls. Zilch. Nada.

Yes, before that the Soviet public bathed in bourgeois tears and wiped themselves with confiscated bourgeois silk lingerie, just like the founding fathers intended. But then in 1969 they ran out of other people's silk underpants to wipe themselves with, and decided that toilet paper was acceptable.

Somehow, they still managed to beat the Nazis, though.

In the US in 2017, on the other hand, there is a severe artificial shortage of housing. Capitalists do not bother with piddly stuff such as creating artificial shortages of toilet paper, at least not in their own country. No, they go for the jugular, and force the populace to pay black market prices for healthcare and to get a roof over their head. That's more like it. American capitalists like to THINK BIG! As a result, the US is full of clean and obedient asses.

Maybe Russia could send us some old editions of Pravda that we could all sleep under, and some vodka to inject the sick with, since we do not need Pravda to wipe our behinds. Yeah, that's the ticket.

justme says

Straw Man says

Fun fact: first toilet paper plant in USSR was opened in 1969. Before that they produced 0 rolls. Zilch. Nada.

Yes, before that the Soviet public bathed in bourgeois tears and wiped themselves with confiscated bourgeois silk lingerie, just like the founding fathers intended. But then in 1969 they ran out of other people's silk underpants to wipe themselves with, and decided that toilet paper was acceptable.

Somehow, they still managed to beat the Nazis, though.

Why anyone would so passionately support a failed system like the USSR is shocking.
No democracy - No freedoms - Can't even travel without permission - no innovation - pathetic standard of living.
If you like your communism, you can keep your communism. Just not in the USA.

I'm not supporting the USSR. I'm criticizing propaganda launched against the USSR and Venezuela. All countries have flaws, including the US, which has some very bad ones. But if someone has to resort to propaganda rather than pointing out valid flaws, then their whole argument that "Venezuela is bad because of socialism" is not valid.

Venezuela has at times had shortages of consumer goods. Saudi Arabia has severe shortages of basic human rights. Is the latter caused by unchecked monarchy? Yeah, i think so. Is the former caused by socialism? Not clear at all. Is Venezuela in bad shape because of low oil prices? Yes. Is Saudi Arabia in bad shape because of low oil prices? Sure, but their real problem is a tyrannical monarchy.

justme says

I'm not supporting the USSR. I'm criticizing propaganda launched against the USSR and Venezuela. All countries have flaws, including the US, which has some very bad ones. But if someone has to resort to propaganda rather than pointing out valid flaws, then their whole argument that "Venezuela is bad because of socialism" is not valid.

What propaganda are you talking about? These are failed countries. The facts are all we need to discredit these failed regimes. If anything, communists need lots and lots of propaganda to discredit the incredible success of the United States and it's capitalism. No one ever wanted to emigrate to the USSR, or to the Venezuela of today. They all wanted out. Even the American communists did not want to live in these loser countries. LOL LOL.

justme says

Venezuela has at times had shortages of consumer goods.

ha ha ha. Hello? Because they can't produce anything on their own, and don't have money to buy even food. This is a country with the world's largest crude oil reserves. They can't even dig a fucking hole to extract the oil. What a bunch of losers.

justme says

Saudi Arabia has severe shortages of basic human rights. Is the latter caused by unchecked monarchy? Yeah, i think so. Is the former caused by socialism? Not clear at all. Is Venezuela in bad shape because of low oil prices? Yes. Is Saudi Arabia in bad shape because of low oil prices? Sure, but their real problem is a tyrannical monarchy.

WTF. Did you miss every headline in the last 20 years? Saudis have a shortage of basic human rights because of Islam, not monarchy. Duh! WTF is wrong with you?

FAIL FAIL FAIL

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/americas/venezuela-shortages-impact-lives/index.html

A day in the life of Venezuelans: Anything but normal

justme says

Nice try. What would explain food and toilet paper shortages in USSR then?

What year was that? Do you have a reference? How much of it was just US anti-communist propaganda that you uncritically swallowed?

Much of the reason for the lesser economic performance of the Soviet Union in 1941-1992 was due to having lost 27 MILLION PEOPLE and a huge portion of their industrial and food-producing capability in the war against Nazi Germany.

By comparison, the US lost 500k people and had virtually NO damage to their homeland. Remember also, there was no Marshall Plan or Marshall Help for the Soviets. They were left with no assistance whatsoever.

I think these simple facts explain a lot. But the right-wing propagandists never talk about these facts.

Please do not forget another reason for problems in Soviet Union - Genghis Khan invasion in 13th century. But seriously, it is ridiculous to ascribe problems in 1980 to something that happened 30-40 years ago. With respect to toilet paper, I lived in Soviet Union in 1980's and there was a shortage of it (and nearly everything else). People used cut up newspapers as TP. This is not some vile capitalist propaganda, it is truth and these kind of shortages are very characteristic of all socialist countries.

justme says

Is the former caused by socialism? Not clear at all.

The hell it isn't! Do you have any clue about Venezuela's stupid Socialist price control policies?

Venezuela doesn't have sugar because Chavez said the people have a "human right" for cheap sugar and wouldn't allow farmers to price sugar above a certain amount. So guess what? Farmers stopped producing sugar since they couldn't cover their costs or make a modest profit.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/20/investing/venezuela-coca-cola-femsa-crisis/index.html

drBu says

I think these simple facts explain a lot. But the right-wing propagandists never talk about these facts.

Please do not forget another reason for problems in Soviet Union - Genghis Khan invasion in 13th century. But seriously, it is ridiculous to ascribe problems in 1980 to something that happened 30-40 years ago. With respect to toilet paper, I lived in Soviet Union in 1980's and there was a shortage of it (and nearly everything else). People used cut up newspapers as TP. This is not some vile capitalist propaganda, it is truth and these kind of shortages are very characteristic of all socialist countries.

I was visiting my ex girlfriend in Poland for 22 days in 1980. The grocery stores always seemed empty with no choices for different brands. There were shops that took foreign exchange only. Their shelves were full.

socal2 says

justme says

Is the former caused by socialism? Not clear at all.

The hell it isn't! Do you have any clue about Venezuela's stupid Socialist price control policies?

Venezuela doesn't have sugar because Chavez said the people have a "human right" for cheap sugar and wouldn't allow farmers to price sugar above a certain amount. So guess what? Farmers stopped producing sugar since they couldn't cover their costs or make a modest profit.

Total morons. No common sense at all. And as usual, it's all Americas fault.

Strategist says

The grocery stores always seemed empty with no choices for different brands. There were shops that took foreign exchange only. Their shelves were full.

Very typical for those times. Many (most) families had small summer gardens, so-called dachi, where they grew a substantial amount of food since stores were semi-empty.

A few pictures from socialist heaven: http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/katiava/post260160098/

Note lines outside the stores at those rare times when they were stocked. Kind of like Venezuela today.

drBu says

Very typical for those times. Many (most) families had small summer gardens, so-called dachi, where they grew a substantial amount of food since stores were semi-empty.

A few pictures from socialist heaven: http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/katiava/post260160098/

Note lines outside the stores at those rare times when they were stocked. Kind of like Venezuela today.

The Soviets would tell their people the Americans were starving. Ha ha ha ha.