patrick.net

Heraclitusstudent says

purging an evil person who has violated one of their sacred taboos.

Let's burn Giordano Bruno for violating a sacred taboo (and blame burning him on his own actions and lack of social intelligence)...humanity has gone through that before.

By the same reasoning, everyone who publicly questions Islam deserves to die, because that questioning was in fact his own action, and shows his lack of social intelligence.

The NY Times article is surprisingly unbiased given the NY Times' recent history as a major purveyor of highly slanted "news".

This bit is very wrong tho:

Heraclitusstudent says

What we have is a legitimate tension. Damore is describing a truth on one level; his sensible critics are describing a different truth, one that exists on another level. He is championing scientific research; they are championing gender equality. It takes a little subtlety to harmonize these strands, but it’s doable.

A "different truth"? Wasn't the NY Times the primer mocker of Kellyanne Conway's "alternative facts" phrase?

Championing equality of outcome regardless of merit is not a "truth" in any sense. It is an agenda.

But this line almost makes up for it:

Heraclitusstudent says

As Conor Friedersdorf wrote in The Atlantic, “I cannot remember the last time so many outlets and observers mischaracterized so many aspects of a text everyone possessed.” Various reporters and critics apparently decided that Damore opposes all things Enlightened People believe and therefore they don’t have to afford him the basic standards of intellectual fairness.

That's a perfect summary. The mischaracterization of Damore's statement is just amazing and relentless. As if what the guy actually wrote doesn't matter at all. He openly doubts their Koran and so must die.

Heraclitusstudent says

As Conor Friedersdorf wrote in The Atlantic, “I cannot remember the last time so many outlets and observers mischaracterized so many aspects of a text everyone possessed.” Various reporters and critics apparently decided that Damore opposes all things Enlightened People believe and therefore they don’t have to afford him the basic standards of intellectual fairness.

It's very true, and firing him will hurt Google. But still think the neurotic thing was a big mistake and it's the part that all the Damore Detractors in the Press will use to smear and mischaracterize.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

But still think the neurotic thing was a big mistake and it's the part that all the Damore Detractors in the Press will use to smear and mischaracterize.

But what about the copious scientific evidence that women are indeed more neurotic (prone to anxiety) than men are?

http://www.medicaldaily.com/women-are-far-more-anxious-men-heres-science-390002
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/brb3.497/abstract
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-anxious-sex/
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2008-02-sex-differences-brain-serotonin.html

The guy is right on all counts, including the greater average neuroticism of women.

Yes, they will smear and mischaracterize him, but he can very well defend himself with facts. The NY Times editorial gives some hope that the hysteria will give way to actual discussion of the underlying reality of biological sex differences.

Dan8267 says

People who are atheists are so because they are both intelligent and honest, and this combination forces them to be atheists.

This is the biggest lie on this thread. People have many motivations for denying God. Intelligence and Honesty have nothing to do with it. In fact, honesty and intelligence are likely to motivate a person to know God more fully.

Dan8267 says

Only fools believe in souls. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that arbitrary Bronze Age myth, and plenty of reasons to not from the complete lack of any evidence that souls exist to the failure of anyone who dies passing on a clear message to the living.

False. Jesus did.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

1. Being in control of your emotions is not the same as being emotionless.
Straw man argument that doesn't address what I said.

Lie

PeopleUnited says

2. Sex is not an emotion.
People have sex because of the emotions involved. How can you not know this?

It is a lie. Sex is like drugs, or any other high.

PeopleUnited says

The Zen master rightly defines it as ruling over your emotions rather than letting them rule over you.
No, that's the point. Ruling over your emotions does not prevent you from being stabbed in a robbery. Nor is there any cosmological force that causes people who fail to do so to magically get their comeuppance. Life if often unjust. It does not self-correct. To make life just requires act...
The Zen master never said ruling over your emotions was a magic shield of protection and people who have this gift can never be physically harmed. That is just a straw man you invented. It is dishonest.

PeopleUnited says

Intelligence and Honesty have nothing to do with it.

Bull-fucking-shit! I do not choose whether or not to believe in your false god. I am compelled to disbelieve in your false god by evidence and reasoning. It is logically impossible for a being to be omnipotent. It violates the laws of physics for a being to be omniscient. All evidence points to Christian myths being complete fabrications. All evidence shows that praying for someone's recovery and telling them about that actually makes them worse off.

PeopleUnited demonstrates exactly why Christian brainwashing is damn dangerous. He is incapable of even acknowledging the honesty of a person's rejection of the Christian god. Yet, this racist has no problem denouncing other gods as utterly ridiculous. Utter hypocrisy.

Dan8267 says

Bull-fucking-shit! I do not choose whether or not to believe in your false god.

We know Dan. But that is your choice. And it is not intelligent or honest.

PeopleUnited proves that Christianity is as dangerous as Islam. If assholes like him ever became a large enough minority, they'd wage a religious war against everyone else.

Dan8267 says

A mother dies and goes to heaven. Meanwhile on Earth her daughter is brutally raped. How the fuck could the mother be in perfect bliss? Hitler goes to hell, but Hitler's mom goes to heaven. How can any mother be happy when her child is being tortured for all eternity? Oh, Hitler's mom is also in hell? Then her mother can't be happy in heaven. OK with that? Keep regressing until you get to a common ancestor of you and Hitler. That ancestor and all others can't be perfectly happy either.

And once again, just as Dan cannot understand the Zen master story, he also does not understand what miracle God works in people's hearts when they are saved. When a person accepts the forgiveness of God, He not only forgives them, He gives them the ability to overcome their sins. On of those sins is being unwilling to forgive. A mother of a raped child (knowing that she is as guilty as the rapist, and yet was forgiven) who is Christian, has the ability to also forgive: the rapist, HItler, and any other scumbag. The reason you cannot understand this is that you don't understand forgiveness. You are bound by your negative emotions and living the hell on earth that the Zen master described.

www.youtube.com/embed/_uWMOZ0vaCY

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

PeopleUnited says

You are bound by your negative emotions and living the hell on earth that the Zen master described.

Yes, there is objective reality, but it has no meaning without subjective interpretation, and you do have some control over that. Hamlet: "There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

The first chapter of the Dhammapada is about this idea: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

Given that Buddhism was known in ancient Greece and Egypt, I would not be surprised if Jesus picked up some of this philosophy in Israel. He said very similar things.

Dan8267 says

www.youtube.com/embed/_uWMOZ0vaCY

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

The real question Dan is are you willing to forgive?

rando says

PeopleUnited says

You are bound by your negative emotions and living the hell on earth that the Zen master described.

Yes, there is objective reality, but it has no meaning without subjective interpretation, and you do have some control over that. Hamlet: "There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

The first chapter of the Dhammapada is about this idea: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

Given that Buddhism was known in ancient Greece and Egypt, I would not be surprised if Jesus picked up some of this philosophy in Israel. He said very similar things.

The wisdom you have shared is appreciated. There are pieces of truth in the teachings you have cited. Jesus however, was not influenced by anything other than His relationship with His heavenly father and the Holy Spirit, His experience on earth as a human, and the Word of God which he meditated on. Jesus was not a capable of lying and if He thought people should study some other source of wisdom than the Bible He would have said so.

PeopleUnited says

Jesus however, was not influenced by anything other than His relationship with His heavenly father and the Holy Spirit, His experience on earth as a human, and the Word of God which he meditated on

God killed/subsequent resurrection is very common in Near East mythologies. Osiris is a well-known example. It is very likely that Jewish mythology, which Jesus is a part of, was heavily influenced by Egyptian mythology (just like Hebrew writing originates in Egyptian hieroglyphs). A question which a rational person can ask is - why should we believe in Jesus and not Osiris?

Back to the original topic: The story of the young man who was fired by Google for circulating his opinion is corporate sponsored censorship. It is an attempt to create a safe zone. It is a lot like Dan's threads. You can only work for Google if you are willing to live by their alternate facts. You can only post on Dan's threads until you refuse to accept his alternate facts.

PeopleUnited says

There are pieces of truth in the teachings you have cited.

I feel the same about Jesus. I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity. No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

PeopleUnited says

The story of the young man who was fired by Google for circulating his opinion is corporate sponsored censorship. It is an attempt to create a safe zone.

We are in absolute agreement there.

PeopleUnited says

The real question Dan is are you willing to forgive?

Don't try to dodge the question.

Dan8267 says

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

rando says

I feel the same about Jesus. I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity. No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

+1000000000

PeopleUnited says

It is an attempt to create a safe zone. It is a lot like Dan's threads. You can only work for Google if you are willing to live by their alternate facts. You can only post on Dan's threads until you refuse to accept his alternate facts.

More lies.

Most people on PatNet aren't assholes. About a dozen people are. They constantly troll. Banning a troll from your threads is not censorship anymore than not inviting assholes into your house to harass you is censorship.

Nor is it creating a safe place to not invite trolls into your room. Fail healers aren't invited into conferences on cancer for a reason.

Nor is what Google did even remotely close. Firing someone for violating political correctness is both scary and illegal in California. The author is right to sue. Hopefully he will win.

I'll tell you what my banning of your ass is really like. Imagine if I went into a church during mass, walked up to the podium, and started stating all the reasons why Christianity is bullshit and its god does not exist. I'd be kicked out immediately, the police would arrest me for trespassing, and I'd be given a police order to never return to that church under punishment of arrest. Unless you are for atheists being allowed to disrupt masses with speeches on why the Christian god is false, you are a complete hypocrite.

drBu says

A question which a rational person can ask is - why should we believe in Jesus and not Osiris?

This is a rational question.

The simple answer is that Jesus keeps His promises. No other source can make this claim.

Acts
5 The next day the rulers, the elders and the teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. 6 Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and others of the high priest’s family. 7 They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: “By what power or what name did you do this?” 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

Psalm 18:30
God's way is perfect. All the LORD's promises prove true. He is a shield for all who look to him for protection.

rando says

I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity.

Philosophy can only work if it is not combined with religion because religion will always corrupt and twist any philosophy no matter how good. And religion does nothing to enhance philosophy. Reason and evidence does.

rando says

No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

I'm pretty sure that PeopleUnited would have a problem with others worshiping Buddha as a god -- and I know Buddhists don't do this, but that's not the point -- and telling others to do so as well. Yet Buddha's philosophy is at least as nice as Jesus's.

And Buddha came first, so if anyone's the copy, it's Jesus.

Dan8267 says

Don't try to dodge the question.

To cowardly to address this?

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

The real question Dan is are you willing to forgive?

Don't try to dodge the question.

Dan8267 says

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

There are two kinds of people in heaven, the innocent, and the forgiven.
God created hell as a place for the devil and his angels, but there is one kind of person who will go there as well, the guilty.

Was she innocent, forgiven or guilty? God only knows.

But again, only someone who lacks understanding of what forgiveness is would have a problem with this event, or the words of the former Google employee.

PeopleUnited says

The simple answer is that Jesus keeps His promises. No other source can make this claim.

We do not know this more about Jesus than Osiris (e.i why should we believe claim about Jesus and not Osiris)

rando says

PeopleUnited says

There are pieces of truth in the teachings you have cited.

I feel the same about Jesus. I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity. No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

drBu says

rando says

I feel the same about Jesus. I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity. No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

+1000000000

Thanks @Patrick and @drBu. You are evidence that civility can exist in the midst of disagreement.

Unfortunately totalitarian thinking is what dominates our universities, many corporations, and religious institutions. Each group seeks to control thoughts and punish those who dare question the dominant paradigm. It is the new slavery. A slavery of the mind. By the power of these organizations, people are chained to live inside the ideology of that organization. You are banished to live without a job, a church family, or a degree if you are not willing to bow to the narrative of those in power. These trends are actually accelerating.

PeopleUnited says

civility can exist in the midst of disagreement

If we are not trying to force our beliefs on others, then there is no reason to be vile in discussions. A polite discussion will make all of us more knowledgeable.

drBu says

PeopleUnited says

The simple answer is that Jesus keeps His promises. No other source can make this claim.

We do not know this more about Jesus than Osiris (e.i why should we believe claim about Jesus and not Osiris)

You should test it and see for yourself. Most people never really allow God's word a chance. Read the Bible check out Osiris and then you can decide. There is no shame in studying something and allowing yourself the opportunity to discover something new. I would suggest that seeking out someone who can share their experience/relationship with God may also be worthwhile but not necessary.

drBu says

PeopleUnited says

civility can exist in the midst of disagreement

If we are not trying to force our beliefs on others, then there is no reason to be vile in discussions. A polite discussion will make all of us more knowledgeable.

Well said my friend.

Dan and his tangents. Using tragedy of a confused little girl to promote his socialist agenda. You are despicable at times Dan.

And illogical. For example.

Dan8267 says

I'll tell you what my banning of your ass is really like. Imagine if I went into a church during mass, walked up to the podium, and started stating all the reasons why Christianity is bullshit and its god does not exist. I'd be kicked out immediately, the police would arrest me for trespassing, and I'd be given a police order to never return to that church under punishment of arrest. Unless you are for atheists being allowed to disrupt masses with speeches on why the Christian god is false, you are a complete hypocrite.

Dan, this is a discussion forum, not a church service. People don't come here to sit in a pew and listen to you. The come here to share ideas and receive feedback. You are so full of yourself to think people come here to listen to you like you are some kind of priest. Your analogy is more evidence of how you fail to understand what even this website is about.

PeopleUnited says

God only knows.

You are still dodging the question because it clearly demonstrates an unequivocal downside to the lie of the afterlife.

FortWayne says

Dan and his tangents. Using tragedy of a confused little girl to promote his socialist agenda. You are despicable at times Dan.

Bullshit. What is despicable is continuing to lie about an afterlife after this tragedy. That would be like taking no action after 9/11 to stop terrorism.

The entire point of history is to learn from the mistakes of the past and to not repeat them. There is a lesson to be learned from this tragedy, and that lesson is to not brainwash children into believing in a false afterlife.

If the afterlife was real, then this would not be a tragedy. So FortWayne, I ask you the same questions.

Dan8267 says

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

Man up and answer those questions or stop brainwashing people with your despicable religion and lies of an afterlife.

Perception of reality matters because people act on that perception even when it is false.

PeopleUnited says

civility can exist in the midst of disagreement.

Practice what you preach.