By HEY YOU
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follow HEY YOU 2017 Aug 27, 3:38pm
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Trump is monitoring the situation!
One one hand we have hard-core peer reviewed science showing tens of thousands of independent lines of evidence that man-made climate change is real and that severe storms and flooding are some of the results of climate change.
We'll be having none that on Patnet.
How dare you upset deniers!
Dan, I appreciate your opinion of climate change and often agree with you
It's not an opinion. It's a scientific fact. Facts matter.
Having said that, I do not think that cutting CO2 emissions to 0 would have prevented Harvey or more precisely changed its screwed up track, which cause the flood problems. In last 10 yrs we did not get much hurricanes in Gulf, so if the warming would cause them, then we should get MORE of them.
Hopefully, the evidence I presented above will convince you otherwise. If not, there's plenty more evidence.
The professionals studying the impacts of climate change have presented indisputable proof that both hurricanes and flooding become much more common and much more severe as a result of man-made climate change. Denying this won't reduce the very real economic costs of climate change. In fact denial only increases those costs by preventing action.
Let me put this in the clearest terms. Ignoring climate change is foolish for the exact same reason that ignoring cancer is foolish. Even if the cancer doesn't kill you, delaying treatment will exponentially increase the expenses of fighting the cancer and take you out of work for a long period of time. Delaying climate change mitigation treatment will exponentially increase the expenses of climate change and the loss of economic productivity. The is absolutely no rational or sane economic argument for ignoring climate change. It's just bad economics.
This is no time for common sense. We need to panic while we have the opportunity.
Your thinking of terrorism. Spending billions of anti-terrorism programs is panic when all that was needed to prevent 9/11 was locking the cockpit door and letting passengers fight terrorists without fear of being thrown in prison for doing so.
More Americans will die from natural disasters as the result of climate change than all Americans who have ever died from terrorist attacks.
But hey, if it makes you feel better, think of climate change as terrorism. If your Stone Age brain can only comprehend threats from neighboring tribes because that's how your evolved, think of polluters as a neighboring tribe.
The rest of us will use frontal lobe thinking and realize that the threats in the modern world are not the same as those in the Stone Age.
Dan8257: "It's just bad economics."
If it doesn't have a dollar value,it doesn't matter.
I appreciate that Dan shared sources. I'll check them out.
There are still holes in the logic though (albeit this may be due to colloquial conversation than an actual hole in your argument).
So...I think we can all agree that this hurricane wasn't caused by global warming.
Assuming Dan is correct, what he is suggesting is this hurricane was made worse by global warming.
Lets say this is accurate. What policy/change/difference could possibly have made a difference in the strength of this hurricane? You think lowering carbon emissions by 20% 10 years ago would have made a substantial difference?
To be clear this is not a binary situation. Your words suggest a "do what we say equals no destruction" vs "deny what we believe equals utter destruction". That dichotomy is silly, even if you are 100% right about the science (which you arent).
Seems like a civil engineering failure.
I was wondering about that too, but read someplace where it said that was by design.
If anything, I was expecting lots of rubberneckers on the upper span.
We should have promoted REC (Rapid Evolutionary Change) 10 years ago to immunize ourselves against radiation.
Then we could have employed tactical nukes in the eye of the storm while it was well out to sea to bring about targeted climate change...
You think lowering carbon emissions by 20% 10 years ago would have made a substantial difference?
Dan8257: "It's just bad economics."If it doesn't have a dollar value,it doesn't matter.
@Patrick, where did all the comments for this thread go? Bug in site code or database disaster?
HEY YOU saysDan8257: "It's just bad economics."If it doesn't have a dollar value,it doesn't matter.The thing is that it does have a very high dollar value. So even if making Al Gore cry is more important than keeping your children from being poisoned, people still should be concerned about climate change because it will hit their wallets. No exceptions.
Assuming Dan is correct, what he is suggesting is this hurricane was made worse by global warming.Lets say this is accurate. What policy/change/difference could possibly have made a difference in the strength of this hurricane? You think lowering carbon emissions by 20% 10 years ago would have made a substantial difference?
[stupid comment limit]
Though it's obviously the main motivation of deniers:
Why would believing climate change is real or not depend on policies that may or may not be enacted?Logically it shouldn't.
Though it's obviously the main motivation of deniers: they believe it is false because they don't like the idea to have global policies against it.
Rational people can still be concerned w our effect on the environment and acknowledge al gore as the lying hypocrite that he is.
Never stopped you before.
Yeah, you can cherry pick images all you want, it doesn't change the other 95% of the American South's behavior.
Dan is lost in his own bigoted bull shit. Absolutely blind.
Where do you get "95%" ??Oh that's right, you don't...
And yes, it has miserable climate
History matters. When Katrina hit New Orleans, the police were shooting blacks who were trying to evacuate or help others.You want Texas to be respected, then have its citizens and government behave respectably.
I wonder what the representatives from Texas are going to do to mitigate the audacity of their begging for the largest aid package in history after arguing so strenuously against providing relief to the millions of victims of hurricane Sandy?
Yeah, you can cherry pick images all you want, it doesn't change the other 95% of the American South's behavior. Try changing that.I can easily find people in New York City behaving politely and being nice to each other. Happens every day. So why again aren't New Yorkers "real Americans" according to the conservative right?
Furthermore, Al Gore has done more for the American economy than all Republican politicians and voters who have ever lived have done.
have you been in Houston for more than a few days? Houston is not "conservative" by any stretch of imagination.
There are consequences to allowing polluters to change the climate. Learn the lessons of history or be doomed to repeat them.
The only bigot here is you. History matters. When Katrina hit New Orleans, the police were shooting blacks who were trying to evacuate or help others.
There are consequences to allowing polluters to change the climate.
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