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Too soon for Texas & Harvey jokes?

By HEY YOU following x   2017 Aug 27, 3:38pm 1,491 views   62 comments   watch   quote     share  

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23 HEY YOU   2017 Aug 28, 10:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Trump is monitoring the situation!
MAGA!

!Dan8267 says

One one hand we have hard-core peer reviewed science showing tens of thousands of independent lines of evidence that man-made climate change is real and that severe storms and flooding are some of the results of climate change.

We'll be having none that on Patnet.
How dare you upset deniers!

24 Dan8267   2017 Aug 28, 10:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

drBu says

Dan, I appreciate your opinion of climate change and often agree with you

It's not an opinion. It's a scientific fact. Facts matter.

drBu says

Having said that, I do not think that cutting CO2 emissions to 0 would have prevented Harvey or more precisely changed its screwed up track, which cause the flood problems. In last 10 yrs we did not get much hurricanes in Gulf, so if the warming would cause them, then we should get MORE of them.

Hopefully, the evidence I presented above will convince you otherwise. If not, there's plenty more evidence.

The professionals studying the impacts of climate change have presented indisputable proof that both hurricanes and flooding become much more common and much more severe as a result of man-made climate change. Denying this won't reduce the very real economic costs of climate change. In fact denial only increases those costs by preventing action.

Let me put this in the clearest terms. Ignoring climate change is foolish for the exact same reason that ignoring cancer is foolish. Even if the cancer doesn't kill you, delaying treatment will exponentially increase the expenses of fighting the cancer and take you out of work for a long period of time. Delaying climate change mitigation treatment will exponentially increase the expenses of climate change and the loss of economic productivity. The is absolutely no rational or sane economic argument for ignoring climate change. It's just bad economics.

25 Dan8267   2017 Aug 28, 10:53am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

Ceffer says

This is no time for common sense. We need to panic while we have the opportunity.

Your thinking of terrorism. Spending billions of anti-terrorism programs is panic when all that was needed to prevent 9/11 was locking the cockpit door and letting passengers fight terrorists without fear of being thrown in prison for doing so.

More Americans will die from natural disasters as the result of climate change than all Americans who have ever died from terrorist attacks.

But hey, if it makes you feel better, think of climate change as terrorism. If your Stone Age brain can only comprehend threats from neighboring tribes because that's how your evolved, think of polluters as a neighboring tribe.

The rest of us will use frontal lobe thinking and realize that the threats in the modern world are not the same as those in the Stone Age.

26 HEY YOU   2017 Aug 28, 10:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8257: "It's just bad economics."
If it doesn't have a dollar value,it doesn't matter.

27 CBOEtrader   2017 Aug 28, 11:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

I appreciate that Dan shared sources. I'll check them out.

There are still holes in the logic though (albeit this may be due to colloquial conversation than an actual hole in your argument).

So...I think we can all agree that this hurricane wasn't caused by global warming.

Assuming Dan is correct, what he is suggesting is this hurricane was made worse by global warming.

Lets say this is accurate. What policy/change/difference could possibly have made a difference in the strength of this hurricane? You think lowering carbon emissions by 20% 10 years ago would have made a substantial difference?

To be clear this is not a binary situation. Your words suggest a "do what we say equals no destruction" vs "deny what we believe equals utter destruction". That dichotomy is silly, even if you are 100% right about the science (which you arent).

28 zzyzzx   2017 Aug 28, 11:49am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

Patrick says

Seems like a civil engineering failure.

I was wondering about that too, but read someplace where it said that was by design.
If anything, I was expecting lots of rubberneckers on the upper span.

29 BlueSardine   2017 Aug 28, 11:53am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

We should have promoted REC (Rapid Evolutionary Change) 10 years ago to immunize ourselves against radiation.
Then we could have employed tactical nukes in the eye of the storm while it was well out to sea to bring about targeted climate change...

CBOEtrader says

You think lowering carbon emissions by 20% 10 years ago would have made a substantial difference?

30 Ceffer   2017 Aug 28, 12:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Trumpligula is delighted that he will be able to walk across the water and save the wretched pepuls!
31 Dan8267   2017 Aug 28, 12:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
HEY YOU says
Dan8257: "It's just bad economics."

If it doesn't have a dollar value,it doesn't matter.


The thing is that it does have a very high dollar value. So even if making Al Gore cry is more important than keeping your children from being poisoned, people still should be concerned about climate change because it will hit their wallets. No exceptions.
32 Dan8267   2017 Aug 29, 1:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
@Patrick, where did all the comments for this thread go? Bug in site code or database disaster?
33 Strategist   2017 Aug 29, 2:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Dan8267 says

@Patrick, where did all the comments for this thread go? Bug in site code or database disaster?


It's your damn computer. I told you to get an Apple.
34 CBOEtrader   2017 Aug 30, 4:54am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Dan8267 says
HEY YOU says
Dan8257: "It's just bad economics."

If it doesn't have a dollar value,it doesn't matter.


The thing is that it does have a very high dollar value. So even if making Al Gore cry is more important than keeping your children from being poisoned, people still should be concerned about climate change because it will hit their wallets. No exceptions.


Rational people can still be concerned w our effect on the environment and acknowledge al gore as the lying hypocrite that he is.

Your false dichotomies are a fantasy.
35 Heraclitusstudent   2017 Aug 30, 6:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
CBOEtrader says

Assuming Dan is correct, what he is suggesting is this hurricane was made worse by global warming.


Lets say this is accurate. What policy/change/difference could possibly have made a difference in the strength of this hurricane? You think lowering carbon emissions by 20% 10 years ago would have made a substantial difference?



Why would believing climate change is real or not depend on policies that may or may not be enacted?
Logically it shouldn't.
Though it's obviously the main motivation of deniers: they believe it is false because they don't like the idea to have global policies against it.
Rationalization.
36 Onvacation   2017 Aug 30, 7:03am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Dan8267 says
[stupid comment limit]


Never stopped you before.
37 Onvacation   2017 Aug 30, 7:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Heraclitusstudent says

Though it's obviously the main motivation of deniers:

Is that they don't want to pay forced tithes to the church of global warming climate change.
38 HEY YOU   2017 Aug 30, 8:18am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
When one paves paradise,where does the water go?
We need nice surfaces for our cars to roll around on.
I would never park my 4 wheel treasure on dirt.
Sidewalks are nice,I don't like walking in the dirt.
39 CBOEtrader   2017 Aug 30, 8:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Heraclitusstudent says

Why would believing climate change is real or not depend on policies that may or may not be enacted?
Logically it shouldn't.


Of course it doesn't. The POINT of the conversation is that Dan is blaming those who disagree on policy for this disaster. So the relevant question is: what policy change would have mitigated this hurricane? If you have an answer please offer it.

Heraclitusstudent says
Though it's obviously the main motivation of deniers: they believe it is false because they don't like the idea to have global policies against it.


You pronouns combined w assumptions make this sentence incomprehensible. You typically have great points, so I'd like you to clarify. I'm not following what you are saying or how it relates to the conversation.
40 Dan8267   2017 Aug 30, 6:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
CBOEtrader says
Rational people can still be concerned w our effect on the environment and acknowledge al gore as the lying hypocrite that he is.


There is nothing rational about people who deny man-made climate change or its consequences. The scientific evidence is overwhelming. And those people are motivated entirely by identity politics. I presented no false dichotomy.

Furthermore, Al Gore has done more for the American economy than all Republican politicians and voters who have ever lived have done. Because of legislation he sponsored, the Internet and trillions of dollars of yearly commerce was developed in America instead of China or India. We are still reaping the benefits of Al Gore's policies.
41 Dan8267   2017 Aug 30, 6:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Onvacation says
Never stopped you before.

The opinion of a climate change denier means nothing.
43 Dan8267   2017 Aug 30, 8:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Yeah, you can cherry pick images all you want, it doesn't change the other 95% of the American South's behavior. Try changing that.

I can easily find people in New York City behaving politely and being nice to each other. Happens every day. So why again aren't New Yorkers "real Americans" according to the conservative right?
44 CBOEtrader   2017 Sep 1, 5:24am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Dan is lost in his own bigoted bull shit. Absolutely blind.

Texas is showing the world that white vs black is a false dichotomy. They are all false dichotomies.

People are people and we help each other. At least, that's how we do it It Texas and across the entire south that I've seen.
45 BlueSardine   2017 Sep 1, 5:51am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Where do you get "95%" ??
Oh that's right, you don't...

Dan8267 says
Yeah, you can cherry pick images all you want, it doesn't change the other 95% of the American South's behavior.
46 Dan8267   2017 Sep 1, 8:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
CBOEtrader says
Dan is lost in his own bigoted bull shit. Absolutely blind.


The only bigot here is you. History matters. When Katrina hit New Orleans, the police were shooting blacks who were trying to evacuate or help others.

You want Texas to be respected, then have its citizens and government behave respectably.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6063982 http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/04/danziger_bridge_officers_sente.html
BlueSardine says
Where do you get "95%" ??
Oh that's right, you don't...


If anything, that's damn conservative. Where do you get less? You don't.
47 P N Dr Lo R   2017 Sep 1, 8:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
The usual ill will from all the same sources.
48 Dan8267   2017 Sep 1, 9:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
There are consequences to allowing polluters to change the climate. Learn the lessons of history or be doomed to repeat them.
49 drBu   2017 Sep 1, 9:17am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Dan,

have you been in Houston for more than a few days? Houston is not "conservative" by any stretch of imagination. It is very different from most of TX, most of American South, New Orleans, and, dare I say, from the rest of US of A. First, it is one of few cities where there is no major ethnic group/race. Second, it stands out from big and ethnically diverse cities in that while it slightly favors Democrats, Republicans also have a chance - it voted for R-Abbott in TX gov election. Third, there is much less inter-ethnic animosity than in most other places - people are very mixed up and not that closeted in their ethnic group. This is the biggest difference which transplants from NYC note. There is very little SJW action - demonstrators on campuses in Houston number in TENS typically, and most students ignore the demonstrations. There is some police abuse crap, but less than in other parts of US. Houston is one of extremely rare places in US where a blue-collar worker with high-school or lower education can lead a decent life and buy a house. And yes, it has miserable climate, with heat, humidity, and hurricanes, and an extremely corrupt city hall.
50 P N Dr Lo R   2017 Sep 1, 11:16am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
drBu says
TX


That's all they care about

drBu says
And yes, it has miserable climate


And why I wouldn't want to live there regardless of any other variable. We have our toronados to worry about in the spring and I'll live with that. I just wish Kurt Nauck would move his operations further inland--I hate to think of all those records getting damaged!

http://www.78rpm.com/
51 jazz_music   2017 Sep 1, 11:19am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Dan8267 says
History matters. When Katrina hit New Orleans, the police were shooting blacks who were trying to evacuate or help others.

You want Texas to be respected, then have its citizens and government behave respectably.


I wonder what the representatives from Texas are going to do to mitigate the audacity of their begging for the largest aid package in history after arguing so strenuously against providing relief to the millions of victims of hurricane Sandy?
52 drBu   2017 Sep 1, 11:23am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
jazz_music says
I wonder what the representatives from Texas are going to do to mitigate the audacity of their begging for the largest aid package in history after arguing so strenuously against providing relief to the millions of victims of hurricane Sandy?

Perhaps aid packages should include just aid for hurricane relief, and not assorted unrelated crap. Or should we name next Iraq war financing as "hurricane Harvey relief package" and castigate those voting against it?
55 BayAreaObserver   2017 Sep 16, 6:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
FEMA auctioned disaster trailers as Harvey made landfall.

The federal government auctioned off disaster-response trailers at fire-sale prices even as Harvey devastated southeast Texas, reducing an already diminished supply of mobile homes ahead of what could become the nation's largest-ever housing mission.

More than 100 2017-model Federal Emergency Management Agency trailers were sold over the two days before the Category 4 hurricane landed in the Gulf Coast, an analysis of government data by The Associated Press found. Harvey was already projected to be a monster storm that would inflict unprecedented damage. The sales continued until Aug. 28, when floodwaters sent thousands of Texans onto rooftops and into shelters.

The auctions -- about 300 since the beginning of the year -- have left FEMA with a standing fleet of only 1,700 units. The agency has put out bids for another 4,500, but officials could not say when they would be ready to meet needs arising from Harvey, Irma and potentially future storms.

"There's a vast chasm between what they can supply and what is actually needed," said Dr. Irwin Redlener, director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness at Columbia University, adding that he found the trailer auctions an "unfortunate decision."

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf/2017/09/fema_trailers_auctioned.html#incart_river_home

FEMA doing a "heck of a job" once again...congratulations all around especially to whoever is building those new trailers
56 BayArea   2017 Sep 16, 7:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Dan8267 says
Yeah, you can cherry pick images all you want, it doesn't change the other 95% of the American South's behavior. Try changing that.

I can easily find people in New York City behaving politely and being nice to each other. Happens every day. So why again aren't New Yorkers "real Americans" according to the conservative right?


I've been to NYC several times and have yet to visit a city in the USA where people are less "nice" to each other.

I agree we can cherry pick all day however and it'll get us nowhere.
57 Onvacation   2017 Sep 16, 8:04am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Dan8267 says

Furthermore, Al Gore has done more for the American economy than all Republican politicians and voters who have ever lived have done.

LOL
Why did he buy a beach front mansion if he believes the ocean is rising?
Al Gore reminds me of one of those Christian revival ministers who can save your soul if you give him ALL your money.
58 Dan8267   2017 Sep 16, 3:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
drBu says
have you been in Houston for more than a few days? Houston is not "conservative" by any stretch of imagination.


That's not what I said. I said
There are consequences to allowing polluters to change the climate. Learn the lessons of history or be doomed to repeat them.
59 komputodo   2017 Sep 16, 11:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Dan8267 says
The only bigot here is you. History matters. When Katrina hit New Orleans, the police were shooting blacks who were trying to evacuate or help others.


Yeah they were helping those without flood insurance by burglarizing their houses. That way they could file an insurance claim for burglary. I don't know why the police couldn't understand that.
60 Ceffer   2017 Sep 16, 11:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Is looting insurance more expensive than flood insurance?
61 komputodo   2017 Sep 16, 11:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Dan8267 says
There are consequences to allowing polluters to change the climate.


We are all polluters, some more than others. Some are virtuous like you and iwog. Others, not so much. Hopefully between the two of you, you can come up with a plan to save us from ourselves. We are counting on you.
62 Dan8267   2017 Sep 17, 4:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
The plan is quite simple. Tax pollution at whatever rate it takes to clean up the pollution. The free market takes care of the rest. Either pollution continues but is cleaned up, or pollution stops. Same effect either way. It's a more efficient allocation of resources.

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